Re: Florentino Perez exposed

by M99 Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:17 am

Great read.

by sportsczy Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:18 am

Just want to add that Calederon is not the standard by which Madrid presidents are measured ffs... That's like using Jimmy Carter as the standard for US presidents.

I'm not going to say Flo is completely awful... Because i've spent time goong over our financial statements (don't trust media evaluations lol) and i can tell you that we're in extremely good shape. Just as an example, we're probably on at about 1/4 of our debt bearing capacity based on our cash flows. So it's fantastic there.

but in terms of football, which is reall what matter with Real Madrid, Flo has been the worse ever. the last 5 years are on par with 1981-85 for most terrible. difference is that we played good footy in 1981-85 and didn't spend the amounts of money we've spent here.

Awful football prez.

by terrance511 Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:27 am

"Reality is that, Perez keeps being praised for making us rich, but what's the point of having money if you dont win things? "

lol, got blamed for not wining things(?).

ya, sure, winning title with ac milan squad definitely a legacy-tier of dream come true.

by VanDeezNuts Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:57 pm

Sports, in terms of football I think you are being biased by RM's history of trophies. The problem is RM were not in direct competition with a team as good as this Barca team. This might be one of the best teams ever. To beat a team like that doesn't happen over night.

Considering how well Barca have performed the past 5-6 years, it's surprising anyone besides them have won anything tbh.

Lets go over the big footballing decisions Perez has made this term(because we know he has done quite well in the financial area of being president)

Hired Pellegrini - very good choice IMO
Fired Pellegrini - but it was the right decision at the time. Fans were calling for his head after the Alcorcon loss and another round of 16 exit in CL (5th or 6th in a row(?)).
Hired Mourinho - coming off a treble with Inter fans were dying for CL glory and Mourinho is one of the best who else would have/should have been hired?
Fired Valdano - the press were heated about the Valdano - Mou feud and something had to be done. Mou was having a great season and it is logical that the fans/Perez backed him. Also fans were begging Perez to give up more transfer power to the manager in a more BPL type style (and given Perez's track record for overspending and selling players of value for peanuts I can't disagree)
Hiring Zidane as DOF- I think a lot of people liked this decision.
Firing Mourinho- coming off a trophy-less season with boat loads of inner turmoil.
Hiring Carlo- the most logical replacement available, can't argue there even though I don't think he was the best choice.

Obviously not all inclusive but I think its difficult for people not to think in hindsight and to put themselves in the president's shoes while at the same time not playing fantasy football /FIFA14 (sign Messi, TS, Ibra, Rooney, Xavi, Vidal win the treble for 10 years straight etc.)

by sportsczy Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:10 pm

Pelligrini got fired because Flo undercut him all season and, as a result, Pelli couldn't control the locker room.

Then he hires Mou, who brings a lot of luggage and a crap style of footy... this was to save his job basically. Kicked Valdano out the door as a result, which was a disgrace in itself.

When Mou's lifecycle ran out (inevitable), Flo then hired Carlo... and instead of allowing Carlo to run his normal system, which is similar to Mou's... he asks him to teach "possession and attacking footy". Square peg, round hole. We all see the results so far lol.

As far as transfers.... Bought Kaka, CR7 and Benz to go with Raul, Higuain and RVN :facepalm:

. When Mou arrived, he gave up control of that. Now that Mou's gone, we went after Isco to make him a CM (dumb), sold Ozil over Di Maria (because Di Maria is so much better at possession footy) and didn't both to get cover for Khedira... so if one of Khedira or Modric are out, we can't play 433 :facepalm:

.

And no, my view of previous Madrid style and success is no biased. La Liga was 100x tougher until 2005 or thereabouts. You not only had Barca, you had Atleti, Deportivo, Valencia, Bilbao and LaReal who competed every year. And ffs we always played nice footy... i could stomach the few years where we had less success because we played attractively at least. Nowadays, there isn't even that.

Before this Barca, there was the Barca of Romario for a year, R9 for year, Figo, Ronaldinho, etc. We handled our own against them, no problem. One reason that this Barca is seen as so great is that Flo Perez has crapped over Madrid and allowed Barca to create a gap... that's all on him. We had that gap with VDB and he threw it all away.

by sportsczy Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:13 pm

I'll add that the gap wasn't even just between Madrid and Barca... we lost ground against all the top clubs in Europe. I won't get into the horrible results until Mou came. But even under Mou, we only lost in CL to Barca once. We also lost to Bayern and Dortmund.

I understand you're not going to win the CL all the time... but our last final was in 2002 ffs. That's when Flo decided to "take over".

by VanDeezNuts Sat Jan 11, 2014 5:41 pm

sportsczy wrote:Pelligrini got fired because Flo undercut him all season and, as a result, Pelli couldn't control the locker room.

Ya, I understand that as well, but the fact of the matter is Pelle had a great squad- maybe not the exact one he wanted, but a squad capable of doing a lot better than losing to Alcorcon in a 2 legged tie and getting beat by Lyon in the round of 16 of CL. He was always going to take the fall for those key losses unless he won the league which he didn't.

sportsczy wrote:
Then he hires Mou, who brings a lot of luggage and a crap style of footy... this was to save his job basically. Kicked Valdano out the door as a result, which was a disgrace in itself.

Valdano was always going to lose that. Mou was threatening to quit, which would have set us back even further (at the time)

sportsczy wrote:
When Mou's lifecycle ran out (inevitable), Flo then hired Carlo... and instead of allowing Carlo to run his normal system, which is similar to Mou's... he asks him to teach "possession and attacking footy". Square peg, round hole. We all see the results so far lol.

I think the style of football Carlo tried to bring in at the beginning of the season was a failure of personnel, not his coaching. We actually did well in a possesion based 4-2-2-2 / 4-4-2 to start out I thought, but it didn't last with the likes of Khedira, Di Maria/Bale, Ronaldo (who would have guessed). Yet it's what a lot of fans wanted after firing Mourinho, even on this forum, isn't that what you wanted sports? Nick?

sportsczy wrote:
As far as transfers.... Bought Kaka, CR7 and Benz to go with Raul, Higuain and RVN . When Mou arrived, he gave up control of that. Now that Mou's gone, we went after Isco to make him a CM (dumb), sold Ozil over Di Maria (because Di Maria is so much better at possession footy) and didn't both to get cover for Khedira... so if one of Khedira or Modric are out, we can't play 433 .

Raul was getting old, Higuain was too young, and RVN was already out of the picture with the knee injury. Isco to CM was idiotic I agree, I was the one (I think the only one) against the signing from the beginning, and I know you still have hope he can be a CM, correct? Ozil, wasn't sold over Di Maria because Di Maria is better at possession, its because Di Maria was the one willing to fight for a position (I think Ozil should have been starter regardless but that's a different discussion), Ozil didn't want the opportunity to be benched. The lack of midfielders, and lack of variety of midfielders has been my biggest complaint for years- so that I think is a big problem with Perez, but that also is due to Mou and Carlo who should have addressed this issue and made it a priority, more so Carlo because we are even less diverse than when we had Mou.

sportsczy wrote:
And no, my view of previous Madrid style and success is no biased. La Liga was 100x tougher until 2005 or thereabouts. You not only had Barca, you had Atleti, Deportivo, Valencia, Bilbao and LaReal who competed every year.

Before this Barca, there was the Barca of Romario for a year, R9 for year, Figo, Ronaldinho, etc. We handled our own against them, no problem. One reason that this Barca is seen as so great is that Flo Perez has crapped over Madrid and allowed Barca to create a gap... that's all on him. We had that gap with VDB and he threw it all away.

I think any Barca fan will tell you those teams were not at the level of the Pep Barca, to me it's not even close considering the longevity and recent European success of this team.

And to say that Perez made Barca better is just wrong. The decisions Perez has made doesn't spontaneously make Messi/Xavi/Iniesta/Busquets/Puyol/Alves/etc. better. That gap was going to be there with or without Perez.

And I definitely don't think we have lost ground in Europe because of Perez. We have been to the semifinal 3 years in a row only losing to Barca (controversially), Bayern (on penalties), and Dortmund (godmode 4 goal Lewa). In any of those ties it really could have gone either way.

by sportsczy Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:02 pm

I did Deez... but i hated the Carlo hiring. Hated it. I knew he was wrong for it. You don't hire a 60+ manager who has used one form of tactics his whole career and then ask him to implement something entirely different. It made no sense. As the President, if you want possession footy, you go hire a manager that has specialized in it and has shown success... this is like hiring a guitar pro and asking him to teach the violin.

I liked the Isco signing because i thought we were going to play him in place of Ozil if he wanted to leave or if he wasn't performing... and i thought Di Maria was gone. So at worse, he would be the first rotation and the first sub. Young kid, so it's ok. After everyone kind of convinved me that Isco adapts to anything... i decided to be optimistic lol. Shame on me.

As far as Barca... sure this is a great one. But personally, i thought the one with Ronaldinho was just as good. The Romario one was insane too and lost to that wonderful Milan side in the CL finals. R9 one was pretty good too.

My point is that we always had a football philosophy... a style. There was a consistency to Madrid despite changing a lot of managers. But under Flo, we change everything all the time. There is no football vision to it other than buying superstars and letting them figure it out + playing at popular politics... we're not building towards anything. How much better do you think we can get this year Deez? I limit it to this year because you know we'll change half the team if we don't win a trophy.

I'd take a good football president every day of the week over a good business president. Ideally, you want both obviously.

by VanDeezNuts Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:30 pm

I agree with you, but I think in the current climate its understandable to make the decisions that Perez has made in response to the abysmal European and financial record of the Calderon era.

The fans want la decima so badly that there is no patience, and Perez is reacting to this impatience.

A manager like Klopp would never have survived unless he had instant success. The only ones who aren't absolutely obliterated by the press when results don't go their way is if they have experience and success that you can point to and say hey these trophies will come if you wait.

Look at how many people wanted Laudrup as manager. We would have a different manager by now if he was hired. No doubt about it.

As for this year, I think we could potentially win it all. At the moment we aren't looking like we could win anything, but if we start to click at the right time anything could happen. Which is why I think a couple of key signings could go a long way to change things up and give us more tactical flexibility. We are pretty limited at the moment.

My point is, until there is a candidate who has presented himself and has a clear vision and a physical plan; we have to accept the faults and successes (there are some) of Perez, because at the moment I have yet to see anyone come up with an alternative.

I see a lot of

Step 1: Fire Perez

Step 2: ???

Step 3: Have a functional/balanced club

Step 4: Treble

by sportsczy Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:38 pm

That's the issue too Deez... Flo was able to change the rules for being able to present yourself as a candidate. Basically, you have to be a billionaire Laughing

As AS described, Santiago Bernabeu would not have been able to become Real Madrid's president under these new rules.

That's why nobody can present themselves in opposition.

by Valkyrja Tue May 27, 2014 7:49 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hD_aKLfpTI

MUST WATCH

by Art Morte Tue May 27, 2014 7:51 pm

Didn't watch.

by Zealous Tue May 27, 2014 7:57 pm

Flo

As is a pos paper with garbage editors and writers tbh. So glad Florentino is our president and the club will will only get better under his reign Proud

by jibers Tue May 27, 2014 8:40 pm

Zealous wrote:Flo

As is a pos paper with garbage editors and writers tbh. So glad Florentino is our president and the club will will only get better under his reign

Please....please stop...

by _SuperFloren_ Wed May 28, 2014 12:05 am

Absolutely BS from Alfredo Relano, AS director. I know very well this SOAB because even being french I live in Spain and Madrid for several years. This man is in a war for years against Perez, and everything because Perez stopped the marketing services linked with Real Madrid that AS used to sell to his readers in the past. And AS is in crisis after that. AS is owned by PRISA group, the sporting biggest Mafia group in Spain, a group which always tries to control Real Madrid. Noise around Real Madrid is always what they need to work. This Relano is able to say the Real Madrid have 540 millions in debt and is in ruins, when Real Madrid is the richest sports club according to Forbes International, and they have upcomes for 600M every year. This guy was able to say the day after Madrid won the 9th european cup, that his victory was "lame" because they played counter attacking football. (Yeah Zidane goal was a counter). This guy who absolutely kills Perez now for sacking Del Bosque, was the main guilty with his propaganda all years against Del Bosque, and saying how a team full of ballon dors couldnt dominate and make treble under treble with a poor coach like Del bosque. This guy always defends Ramon Calderon, the worst president in Real Madrid history who stole us, and Madrid "socios" almost killed him and forced him to leave Spain. He says Perez has political contacts, of course, the same that every single Real Madrid president, because every single Real Madrid president is more famous around the world that the fukin Spanish President of the Goverment. This Alfredo Relano is always saying all problems around Madrid are Perez's fault, even when Mourinho sit Casillas, and Ancelotti did it too, he said it was a Perez order.

The truth of all this is that Florentino Perez is the best president of all times for this club only behind Santiago Bernabeu, and I think even more. He saved Real Madrid in 2000 who was a team with serious economic problems. He made Real Madrid the biggest sporting powerhouse in the world, he made Real more universal around the world, he brings us the best players in the world, of course there will be worst eras, even Bernabeu had 15 years without winning, there is not only Real Madrid in world football and lucky plays too. Under Perez in 10 years we played 7 Champions League semifinals, we could have won 3 or 4 CL with more luck. And the man is always pure class with fans and rivals. He never had a bad word against anybody in 10 years.

by _SuperFloren_ Wed May 28, 2014 12:10 am

We all know in Madrid who is Florentino Perez, thats why Perez always wins elections with no opposition because everybody knows he will get 95% of votes. And we all know in Madrid who is Alfredo Relano, that is why AS every year has less ratings.
Funny reading him those days, it seems like Real Madrid now works so well. If ramos doesnt score, everything would have being Perez's fault as always for him

by jibers Wed May 28, 2014 12:11 am

_SuperFloren_ wrote:Absolutely BS from Alfredo Relano, AS director. I know very well this SOAB because even being french I live in Spain and Madrid for several years. This man is in a war for years against Perez, and everything because Perez stopped the marketing services linked with Real Madrid that AS used to sell to his readers in the past. And AS is in crisis after that. AS is owned by PRISA group, the sporting biggest Mafia group in Spain, a group which always tries to control Real Madrid. Noise around Real Madrid is always what they need to work. This Relano is able to say the Real Madrid have 540 millions in debt and is in ruins, when Real Madrid is the richest sports club according to Forbes International, and they have upcomes for 600M every year. This guy was able to say the day after Madrid won the 9th european cup, that his victory was "lame" because they played counter attacking football. (Yeah Zidane goal was a counter). This guy who absolutely kills Perez now for sacking Del Bosque, was the main guilty with his propaganda all years against Del Bosque, and saying how a team full of ballon dors couldnt dominate and make treble under treble with a poor coach like Del bosque. This guy always defends Ramon Calderon, the worst president in Real Madrid history who stole us, and Madrid "socios" almost killed him and forced him to leave Spain. He says Perez has political contacts, of course, the same that every single Real Madrid president, because every single Real Madrid president is more famous around the world that the fukin Spanish President of the Goverment. This Alfredo Relano is always saying all problems around Madrid are Perez's fault, even when Mourinho sit Casillas, and Ancelotti did it too, he said it was a Perez order.

The truth of all this is that Florentino Perez is the best president of all times for this club only behind Santiago Bernabeu, and I think even more. He saved Real Madrid in 2000 who was a team with serious economic problems. He made Real Madrid the biggest sporting powerhouse in the world, he made Real more universal around the world, he brings us the best players in the world, of course there will be worst eras, even Bernabeu had 15 years without winning, there is not only Real Madrid in world football and lucky plays too. Under Perez in 10 years we played 7 Champions League semifinals, we could have won 3 or 4 CL with more luck. And the man is always pure class with fans and rivals. He never had a bad word against anybody in 10 years.

by _SuperFloren_ Wed May 28, 2014 12:24 am

^^^True, but only on weekends Wink

by StrugaRock Wed May 28, 2014 2:34 am

Maybe this guy is right about Perez, but I lost it when he says that Calderon is better than Perez, really.
Yes he won La Liga in 2007, which I think it was Capello's work done by himself, which he fired because he played boring football. Won La Liga in 2008 too, with a broken Barcelona and no competition whatsoever. Failed 3/3 in the Champions League. And if you think that Calderon had a vision for the future, well you are wrong. The guy embarrassed the club in international level too, he went from a guy who promised Fabregas to getting Lassana Diarra, from wanting to buy Rooney to getting Faubert ffs.

That is why I have my reasons not to trust this guy and what he has wrote.

But all due respect, Perez is more of a businessman than a football genius, I give him that. But Florentino's second stint with Real Madrid has taught him to let the footballing part to people who really understand football, and deal with the business part himself.

by dostoevsky Wed May 28, 2014 11:49 am

Mr Nick09 wrote:Oh my perspective on Perez is that he has been a great failure in his years as club president. Like in everything, there are things he did well, but the bad outweights the good at the end of the day. His only CL win came off the ending of Sanz and Del Bosque era, an overlapping phase in which he enjoyed the success of the people who had worked before he arrived.

After that, any attempt he has had to build team success has failed miserably. Firing of Del Bosque was a disaster. I dont think we grew as a club after mourinho, and Ancelotti has no clue what the fck he is doing.

Reality is that, Perez keeps being praised for making us rich, but what's the point of having money if you dont win things? And when i look at all the hundreds of millions we spent of wasteful signing, i am pretty sure we could have manage to decrease our debt with more intelligent spending.

Insight is 20/20 sure, but there are enough examples in sports to draw a comparison to.

King Carlo winning over the haters. Proud

by guest7 Wed May 28, 2014 12:00 pm

thats how u earn nick's respect these days, he has to start hating u for starting to liking u Proud

by halamadrid2 Wed May 28, 2014 12:37 pm

_SuperFloren_ wrote:Absolutely BS from Alfredo Relano, AS director. I know very well this SOAB because even being french I live in Spain and Madrid for several years. This man is in a war for years against Perez, and everything because Perez stopped the marketing services linked with Real Madrid that AS used to sell to his readers in the past. And AS is in crisis after that. AS is owned by PRISA group, the sporting biggest Mafia group in Spain, a group which always tries to control Real Madrid. Noise around Real Madrid is always what they need to work. This Relano is able to say the Real Madrid have 540 millions in debt and is in ruins, when Real Madrid is the richest sports club according to Forbes International, and they have upcomes for 600M every year. This guy was able to say the day after Madrid won the 9th european cup, that his victory was "lame" because they played counter attacking football. (Yeah Zidane goal was a counter). This guy who absolutely kills Perez now for sacking Del Bosque, was the main guilty with his propaganda all years against Del Bosque, and saying how a team full of ballon dors couldnt dominate and make treble under treble with a poor coach like Del bosque. This guy always defends Ramon Calderon, the worst president in Real Madrid history who stole us, and Madrid "socios" almost killed him and forced him to leave Spain. He says Perez has political contacts, of course, the same that every single Real Madrid president, because every single Real Madrid president is more famous around the world that the fukin Spanish President of the Goverment. This Alfredo Relano is always saying all problems around Madrid are Perez's fault, even when Mourinho sit Casillas, and Ancelotti did it too, he said it was a Perez order.

The truth of all this is that Florentino Perez is the best president of all times for this club only behind Santiago Bernabeu, and I think even more. He saved Real Madrid in 2000 who was a team with serious economic problems. He made Real Madrid the biggest sporting powerhouse in the world, he made Real more universal around the world, he brings us the best players in the world, of course there will be worst eras, even Bernabeu had 15 years without winning, there is not only Real Madrid in world football and lucky plays too. Under Perez in 10 years we played 7 Champions League semifinals, we could have won 3 or 4 CL with more luck. And the man is always pure class with fans and rivals. He never had a bad word against anybody in 10 years.

Very well said. Perez has made alot of mistakes but credit should go to him for saving our club from total financial meltdown. I am also aware of the AS hate campaign on Perez and our team and has repeatedly seen Perez put down this guy and his cronies so well done to him. Perez' second term has been very good overall. It started like he finished hus last term but gradually he learnt to keep out of the football business and focus on the finances only.

by teamanarchy Fri May 30, 2014 9:20 am

Anybody who supports Clownderon is pretty retarded, no offense to retards...
The guy was a complete joke. The 2009 season was my most heartbrealking ever as a RM fan, and that was all his fault.
Remember Robinho leaving, saying he'd "rather sell cakes in the street than play for Real again"?

That was Calderon's fault... he was obsessed with signing Ronaldo.
And I still don't believe he set up the Ronaldo deal... that was all Perez.

Perez is a great president... I mean, his first term was a disaster, but this time round, he's been way better. And, say what you want about his football knowledge, but his know-how, when it comes to money, is unquestionable. There's a reason Madrid have the highest turnovers in the history of football. We spend big, yes... but at the end of the day, we earn even bigger. The team is superbly marketed.

For example, this lame-as-f*ck "hala madrid" decima song with Red One (sorry to call it lame, but it is...) is number 1 on the Spanish iTunes charts...
So, a choir of Real Madrid players can outperform proffessional bulimic pop-stars in selling music.
That's like a Doctor going into a court-house and winning a lawsuit against a Lawyer.
Now, by no means am I saying that RM are better artists than Kesha or Miley Cyrus or whoever is polluting our airwaves these days with their shameful excuse for music... but, my word, Florentino knows how to market his team and make money in every way possible.

The author is a douche

by titosantill Fri May 30, 2014 10:47 am

I never was really sold on Florentino for two main reasons...one was letting redondo leave to milan, i'm not sure we got any thing substantial from that move, but i kind of ignored that since figo came in, and i felt he was the right player the team needed, especially with raul playing upfront, someone to feed him with passes....allowing hierro go was the second reason, that was just criminal as it meant helguera and freaking pavon would man the defense, even del bosque's exit (which in hindsight was foolish) i could stomach, but not hierro.....that said the scary thing is, there is no madrid socio that can really be trusted from a financial or sporting standpoint....ramon calderon was absolutely terrible...he came in promising kaka, robben, fabregas; not to mention david villa and cazorla, then at villareal turned us down vehemently...we ended up with robben, who missed much of his first season, drenthe, el conejo saviola (who barcelona did not even want, after loaning him out to places like monaco and sevilla), heinze, cannavaro (terrible at real) and lady gago, just to name a few....worse still, the club did not do its homework on players being cup tied, that we signed both lass and huntelaar and where informed by uefa that we could field only one or the other, then he had that lecture at Harvard, madridistas remember it, where the team was fighting to get back on track in the league and this dude went and bashed majority of our players publicly; saying beckam was interested in going to hollywood to be a second rate actor, calling guti the 'eternal promise' who hasn't or won't realize his potential, bashing the lifestyle of the team in general...then who can forget how he handled the ronaldo transfer (he credits himself for the ron deal tho, in not 100 percent on that), calling ferguson senile, (something florentino would never do, attempt to sign a player then insult the chairman of the other team in the process), then ferguson halted the move, only until calderon left did cristiano move. Let's not forget he also made our intentions to sign kaka public, and kaka turned us down like twice...we usually go for players but for the most part we hear the news from marca, AS et al, hardly from the president himself unless the deal is done...oh and there was that incidence when some dude posing as nicolas cage fooled calderon and his crew and got a presidential seat to one of our champions league games in the process, making a mockery of calderon, who personally gave the guy a jersey and a club card, finally the incident of vote rigging which saw him resign....i'm not saying every socio will be like calderon, but with inexperience comes a lot of mistakes....lorenzo sanz had his issues to; yes, when one looks at the trophy haul we seemed to be doing okay, but whoever remembers that time period will know we won due to character, not proper management; we won inspite of sanz, not because of him....guys like raul, redondo, panucci, carlos, morientes etc...would rather die than see the team go trophyless in the late 90s....the new rules put in place by florentino- be a socio for 20 plus years, and be in a financial standing of 70 million euros could mean such inexperience and lack of business acumen won't creep in.....if perez is willing to shut up when it comes to football matters and just let the coaching staff work (which i think he has done in this second term), then we can tolerate him....basically, the devil you know is better than the angel you don't...i know florentino, i don't know any of the other socios who could just turn out to be calderon 2.0
and even if we lost ucl, i'd still feel the same way, i'd take florentino perez' antics over calderon-like buffoonery every day of the week

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