Re: Busquets :facepalm:

by moutinho98 Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:22 am

jibers wrote:
moutinho98 wrote:
jibers wrote:That's your opinion. I would put Xavi ahead of him. Arguably iniesta.

put xaviesta's lifetime goals+assists together they still cant match what CR7 scores in a season.

this united fan still on the first stage of grief
Goals are meant to win you games which are meant to win trophies...

Xavi has been the best CM in the last 20 years, arguably of all time. Ronaldo is not even in the debate with the GOAts. Xavi is one of the reasons Spain won the WC and EUROs, Iniesta was the best player in the last EUROS, scored WC winning goal that was more important bthan anything Ronaldo has done in his career... Xavi is ahead of him. For all Ronaldo's goals what does he win?

It's just common sense, IDGAF whether he was at united or Liverpool I will be objective either way.

Dafaq....xavi the best midfielder of last 30 years rofl

where was him pre pep guardiola?? on the bench in champ league final. no one even knew he existed. likes of zidane pirlo were top midfielder for many years and this guy turns upat age of 28 and suddenly hes the best Laughing

keep dreaming son. the guy is nothing but possession keeper. slow on the ball cant make a quick pass slows down everything. and he cant defend or shoot for shit.
how many balon dors has he got or has got close to winning? ? maybe 1 but CR7 is ALWAYS there. if it wsnt for midget messi he would become goat of decade.

ur deluded son.

by FennecFox7 Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:30 am

jibers wrote:
moutinho98 wrote:
jibers wrote:That's your opinion. I would put Xavi ahead of him. Arguably iniesta.

put xaviesta's lifetime goals+assists together they still cant match what CR7 scores in a season.

this united fan still on the first stage of grief
Goals are meant to win you games which are meant to win trophies...

Xavi has been the best CM in the last 20 years, arguably of all time. Ronaldo is not even in the debate with the GOAts. Xavi is one of the reasons Spain won the WC and EUROs, Iniesta was the best player in the last EUROS, scored WC winning goal that was more important bthan anything Ronaldo has done in his career... Xavi is ahead of him. For all Ronaldo's goals what does he win?

It's just common sense, IDGAF whether he was at united or Liverpool I will be objective either way.

Winning is not always a good way to measure a player..

I personally put iniesta close or on par to cristiano. xavi has great ball retention and control and can find a pass anywhere. but thats all he can do. he can just pass the ball. i would rather have a more dynamic midfielder if i was making an xi, but thats just me

by jibers Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:32 am

moutinho98 wrote:
jibers wrote:
moutinho98 wrote:
put xaviesta's lifetime goals+assists together they still cant match what CR7 scores in a season.

this united fan still on the first stage of grief
Goals are meant to win you games which are meant to win trophies...

Xavi has been the best CM in the last 20 years, arguably of all time. Ronaldo is not even in the debate with the GOAts. Xavi is one of the reasons Spain won the WC and EUROs, Iniesta was the best player in the last EUROS, scored WC winning goal that was more important bthan anything Ronaldo has done in his career... Xavi is ahead of him. For all Ronaldo's goals what does he win?

It's just common sense, IDGAF whether he was at united or Liverpool I will be objective either way.
Dafaq....xavi the best midfielder of last 30 years
where was him pre pep guardiola?? on the bench in champ league final. no one even knew he existed. likes of zidane pirlo were top midfielder for many years and this guy turns upat age of 28 and suddenly hes the best :lol:keep dreaming son. the guy is nothing but possession keeper. slow on the ball cant make a quick pass slows down everything. and he cant defend or shoot for shit.
how many balon dors has he got or has got close to winning? ? maybe 1 but CR7 is ALWAYS there. if it wsnt for midget messi he would become goat of decade.

ur deluded son.

Doing exactly the same thing but he was not central to the team because he had the likes of Deco ahead of him. Ronaldo was a 20+ goal winger till Fergie changed things and he went from 20 to 40+. Before Guardiola when Xavi was given the lynchpin role, o yea Spain only won that little trophy called the EUROS.

Pirlo was great but lol @ you. The level Xavi performed at in those 5 years, Pirlo never ever reached those heights in his career. Xavi becomes he centre of both NT and club teams and both start dominating. Yup, strange coincidence right there. Possession keeper? So he is good at retaining the ball? Okay...

Turned up in almost every big game while Ronaldo has flopped in most big games in his career. Even when he was at United he was flopping in big games. Xavi dominated every single big teams mf bar maybe inter and chelsea. 2 in the last 5 years mate...He started slowing down everything because that is what he has been asked. Watch him in EURO 2008 and Peps first season ffs. lol at can't defend and shoot. What's the max goals Pirlo or Zidane have scored in one season? That's what I thought...

by jibers Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:33 am

Giggity5313 wrote:
jibers wrote:
moutinho98 wrote:
put xaviesta's lifetime goals+assists together they still cant match what CR7 scores in a season.

this united fan still on the first stage of grief
Goals are meant to win you games which are meant to win trophies...

Xavi has been the best CM in the last 20 years, arguably of all time. Ronaldo is not even in the debate with the GOAts. Xavi is one of the reasons Spain won the WC and EUROs, Iniesta was the best player in the last EUROS, scored WC winning goal that was more important bthan anything Ronaldo has done in his career... Xavi is ahead of him. For all Ronaldo's goals what does he win?

It's just common sense, IDGAF whether he was at united or Liverpool I will be objective either way.
Winning is not always a good way to measure a player..

I personally put iniesta close or on par to cristiano. xavi has great ball retention and control and can find a pass anywhere. but thats all he can do. he can just pass the ball. i would rather have a more dynamic midfielder if i was making an xi, but thats just me

He can control the tempo of games, that is a skill in itself. It's like saying all Ronaldo can do is score (which isn't far off the truth tbh)

by FennecFox7 Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:34 am

jibers wrote:
Giggity5313 wrote:
jibers wrote:Goals are meant to win you games which are meant to win trophies...

Xavi has been the best CM in the last 20 years, arguably of all time. Ronaldo is not even in the debate with the GOAts. Xavi is one of the reasons Spain won the WC and EUROs, Iniesta was the best player in the last EUROS, scored WC winning goal that was more important bthan anything Ronaldo has done in his career... Xavi is ahead of him. For all Ronaldo's goals what does he win?

It's just common sense, IDGAF whether he was at united or Liverpool I will be objective either way.
Winning is not always a good way to measure a player..

I personally put iniesta close or on par to cristiano. xavi has great ball retention and control and can find a pass anywhere. but thats all he can do. he can just pass the ball. i would rather have a more dynamic midfielder if i was making an xi, but thats just me
He can control the tempo of games, that is a skill in itself. It's like saying all Ronaldo can do is score (which isn't far off the truth tbh)

I don't think a player can control the tempo.. i would say its more of a team thing if anything

by jibers Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:36 am

Giggity5313 wrote:
jibers wrote:
Giggity5313 wrote:Winning is not always a good way to measure a player..

I personally put iniesta close or on par to cristiano. xavi has great ball retention and control and can find a pass anywhere. but thats all he can do. he can just pass the ball. i would rather have a more dynamic midfielder if i was making an xi, but thats just me
He can control the tempo of games, that is a skill in itself. It's like saying all Ronaldo can do is score (which isn't far off the truth tbh)
I don't think a player can control the tempo.. i would say its more of a team thing if anything

There is a reason why Barcelona can't hold the ball half as well when Xavi is out of the team. Xavi sets the tempo, like Scholes did and like Alonso does for Madrid.

by Collblanc Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:40 am

Pirlo doesnt control the tempo. This forum. :bow:

by FennecFox7 Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:57 am

Collblanc wrote:Pirlo doesnt control the tempo. This forum.

It's just an opinion.. calm down internet warrior Rolling Eyes

by Le Samourai Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:32 am

jibers wrote:
Giggity5313 wrote:
jibers wrote:He can control the tempo of games, that is a skill in itself. It's like saying all Ronaldo can do is score (which isn't far off the truth tbh)
I don't think a player can control the tempo.. i would say its more of a team thing if anything
There is a reason why Barcelona can't hold the ball half as well when Xavi is out of the team. Xavi sets the tempo, like Scholes did and like Alonso does for Madrid.

I think he's simply saying a conductor doesn't make an orchestra. You still need people to play the instruments, perhaps people to teach people how to play the instruments.

At a certain level you expect to have the latter two, but it's not always the case. Xavi probably has the richest environment to use his particular qualities, something he himself has helped create. To a lesser extent with Pirlo. Their contributions are understood, but obviously can't be detached from the moving elements which make each individual role unique.

On the topic. It's likely a deliberately poor translation. Diving isn't considered "smart", though it is probably less criticized. It's an action that is universally negatively connoted. Very few people ever transcend the divide between diving as pragmatism, and diving as an artform. as one of the few who has, Busquets insights into the matter are always intriguing,

by billy_gr Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:27 am

to be honest doing such a good job leaving his diving past behind and then reiterating the topic with this kind of statements isn't the smartest thing in the world.
:facepalm:

by jibers Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:59 am

Le Samourai wrote:
jibers wrote:
Giggity5313 wrote:I don't think a player can control the tempo.. i would say its more of a team thing if anything
There is a reason why Barcelona can't hold the ball half as well when Xavi is out of the team. Xavi sets the tempo, like Scholes did and like Alonso does for Madrid.
I think he's simply saying a conductor doesn't make an orchestra. You still need people to play the instruments, perhaps people to teach people how to play the instruments.

At a certain level you expect to have the latter two, but it's not always the case. Xavi probably has the richest environment to use his particular qualities, something he himself has helped create. To a lesser extent with Pirlo. Their contributions are understood, but obviously can't be detached from the moving elements which make each individual role unique.

On the topic. It's likely a deliberately poor translation. Diving isn't considered "smart", though it is probably less criticized. It's an action that is universally negatively connoted. Very few people ever transcend the divide between diving as pragmatism, and diving as an artform. as one of the few who has, Busquets insights into the matter are always intriguing,

I think it's pretty evident you can't have a conductor without an orchestra. Football is a TEAM sport, which people always see to forget. Equally you can't have goal scorers without having creators or initiators. If we are talking about environments conducive to xavis ability to dictate the tempo of a match, shall we not talk about the same thing when it comes to Cristiano?

The simple fact that Xavi enables his teams and is not some tactical double edged sword already puts him ahead. Ronaldo was made the main man before he jumped from good player to balon dor candidate. The teams tactics are geared to making his output as high as possible and even a compulsive methodologist such as pellegrini had to cower to a certain style to get the best out of him. What should we compare them by then? Big games? Xavi trumps Ronaldo by an almost comical amount. You could say the teams decided the outcome then we get to the debate of how do you even compare two players of completely different skill sets and duties on the pitch?

My point is that when both of them where made central to their teams tactical approach, which team benefited more? Barcelona and Spain or Portugal and Real Madrid? Now we can say Ronaldo screw more goals, but is that a logical arguement? He is closer to goal so that is obvious he will have mre and that seems to be his main function. If goals is what we use to judge players, equally xavis best GS season trumps pirlos and zidane combined. So again is that a good measurement? No.

So we have elemenad the use of stats as the be all end all. Perhaps we should try and use something else to judge le Sam? For me Xavi will always be higher on the all time great list than Ronaldo unless Ronaldo does something drastic in the next 5 years.

by harhar11 Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:41 am

moutinho98 wrote:
jibers wrote:
moutinho98 wrote:
put xaviesta's lifetime goals+assists together they still cant match what CR7 scores in a season.

this united fan still on the first stage of grief
Goals are meant to win you games which are meant to win trophies...

Xavi has been the best CM in the last 20 years, arguably of all time. Ronaldo is not even in the debate with the GOAts. Xavi is one of the reasons Spain won the WC and EUROs, Iniesta was the best player in the last EUROS, scored WC winning goal that was more important bthan anything Ronaldo has done in his career... Xavi is ahead of him. For all Ronaldo's goals what does he win?

It's just common sense, IDGAF whether he was at united or Liverpool I will be objective either way.
Dafaq....xavi the best midfielder of last 30 years
where was him pre pep guardiola?? on the bench in champ league final. no one even knew he existed. likes of zidane pirlo were top midfielder for many years and this guy turns upat age of 28 and suddenly hes the best :lol:keep dreaming son. the guy is nothing but possession keeper. slow on the ball cant make a quick pass slows down everything. and he cant defend or shoot for shit.
how many balon dors has he got or has got close to winning? ? maybe 1 but CR7 is ALWAYS there. if it wsnt for midget messi he would become goat of decade.

ur deluded son.

at Xavi being a nobody before pep came and him not starting a CL final being a proof of that..

If you dont know anything, then why talk? Xavi had been a starter for years before Pep came. The only reason why he didnt start the final was because he was coming back from an injury.

And it also doesnt mean that Xavi was a nobody just because Xavi wasnt rated as high back then as he is now. I mean, you dont just magically become the best midfielder in the world from a "nobody" over a night. :facepalm:

by Collblanc Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:51 am

Why even respond to a 14 year old? Had no clue of what was going on when that final played, nor pre-pep

by Khaled Mon Oct 14, 2013 2:48 pm

Xavi is one of the best when it comes to control games tempo. But, he also creates a lot of chances for his teammates, he has a great final pass. Xavi has "187" assists in his career, and that's a huge number especially for a CM who played half of his career in a deep role! [Barcelona 159, Spain 28] - excluding penalties won/rebounds etc..

by harhar11 Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:42 pm

Collblanc wrote:Why even respond to a 14 year old? Had no clue of what was going on when that final played, nor pre-pep

I don't know.... I guess its because I have heard it said before and thought it was time someone corrected it.

by Lord Spencer Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:43 pm

I agree with Jibers that Xavi can be considered "better" than CRonaldo, but that is because I appreciate midfielder contributions more than offensive players.

However, there is no single objective measure that can answer the question clearly. First, because football is a team sport, you cannot ignore the effects a superior teams has on your own skill level.

Xavi played "constantly" with better players than both CR and Pirlo did. It is no coincidence that his stock rose when all of Barca's did. Frankly, Xavi's superiority is as much a product of Messi, Ineista, and Yaya/Busquets as his own skills.

Which is the reason you can't objectively call Xavi the better midfielder when compared to Pirlo when Pirlo has been playing with semi-scrubs since 2007, and with good but not a great team in Juve. Not to mention Spain being stronger and more constant than Italy in the same time span.

Similarly, CR did not play in a team as dominant as Barca, and we would never know how he would do in such a team. What we do know is that he has always been a fulcrum of whatever team he played in.

Ultimately, football is a team sport, and fixating on which unit in which team is better is beyond arbitrary. Also, fixating on comparing other people's strengths like they are your own is pathetic and juvenile (for those who associate Messi's or CR goalscording record with their penis size).

by Winter is Coming Mon Oct 14, 2013 5:57 pm

Well Xavi did get into Barcelona starting XI at the age of 18 in 1998 and made about 30 apps helping Barcelona win the league title. In 1999 he won La Liga breakthrough player of the year. He won the 1999 Youth Championship and Silver medal in the Olympics with Spain. The Milan side in the early 2000 also tried to sign him, so imagine him playing with the likes of Nesta, Kaka, Shevchenko, Seedorf, Maldini and etc. They also offered him double, or triple the amount he was getting at Barcelona. I'm not too sure, but I think Galliani preferred him over Pirlo. Barcelona were on verge of bankruptcy in early 2000 till around 2003-2004. After the 1998 till around 2003-2004 they won nothing. Xavi only mistake at not getting his name out at a younger age was loyalty. He made regular appearance, but played more of a defensive role in his early years at Barcelona, eventually the arrival of Dinho/Deco, he stayed in his position, or played different positions in the middle. He won the best Spanish player in 2005, and returned from a 4 month injury, so had to sit on the bench for the final of 2006.

Xavi started off 2006-2007 a little slow, but improve his game overall. As jibers said in the another thread once, Xavi reached his potential in 2007-2008 season, thats when he won the Euros and was the best player in the tournament its insane how he finished 5th in the Ballon D'or and the the likes of Torres/Casillas finished ahead of him, should've been at least 3rd. After that he finished 3rd in the next 3 Ballon' D'or and if not for Messi/CR insane amount of goals he could've won two if not at least one Ballon D'or. He finished fifth in the last Ballon, so its been 5 years and he's been top 5 players. Zidane won two Ballon D'or, but he himself only finished in the top 5 about 4 times if I'm not mistaken.

Lord Spencer wrote:Xavi played "constantly" with better players than both CR and Pirlo did. It is no coincidence that his stock rose when all of Barca's did. Frankly, Xavi's superiority is as much a product of Messi, Ineista, and Yaya/Busquets as his own skills.

And CR didn't play with Figo, Deco with Portugal. Scholes, Giggs, Vidic, Rooney, Tevez, or Ozil, Alonso, Di Maria, Benz, Higuian, Raul, etc? Pirlo clearly wasn't playing with Ballon D'or winners like Kaka, Shevchenko, or Nesta, Maldini, Seedorf, Ibra, Pato, and now De Rossi, Vidal, Marchisio, Pogba, Chellini etc?

by Lord Spencer Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:10 pm

Winter is Coming wrote:Well Xavi did get into Barcelona starting XI at the age of 18 in 1998 and made about 30 apps helping Barcelona win the league title. In 1999 he won La Liga breakthrough player of the year. He won the 1999 Youth Championship and Silver medal in the Olympics with Spain. The Milan side in the early 2000 also tried to sign him, so imagine him playing with the likes of Nesta, Kaka, Shevchenko, Seedorf, Maldini and etc. They also offered him double, or triple the amount he was getting at Barcelona. I'm not too sure, but I think Galliani preferred him over Pirlo. Barcelona were on verge of bankruptcy in early 2000 till around 2003-2004. After the 1998 till around 2003-2004 they won nothing. Xavi only mistake at not getting his name out at a younger age was loyalty. He made regular appearance, but played more of a defensive role in his early years at Barcelona, eventually the arrival of Dinho/Deco, he stayed in his position, or played different positions in the middle. He won the best Spanish player in 2005, and returned from a 4 month injury, so had to sit on the bench for the final of 2006.

Xavi started off 2006-2007 a little slow, but improve his game overall. As jibers said in the another thread once, Xavi reached his potential in 2007-2008 season, thats when he won the Euros and was the best player in the tournament its insane how he finished 5th in the Ballon D'or and the the likes of Torres/Casillas finished ahead of him, should've been at least 3rd. After that he finished 3rd in the next 3 Ballon' D'or and if not for Messi/CR insane amount of goals he could've won two if not at least one Ballon D'or. He finished fifth in the last Ballon, so its been 5 years and he's been top 5 players. Zidane won two Ballon D'or, but he himself only finished in the top 5 about 4 times if I'm not mistaken.

Lord Spencer wrote:Xavi played "constantly" with better players than both CR and Pirlo did. It is no coincidence that his stock rose when all of Barca's did. Frankly, Xavi's superiority is as much a product of Messi, Ineista, and Yaya/Busquets as his own skills.
And CR didn't play with Figo, Deco (for 2-3 years while young!) with Portugal. Scholes, Giggs, Vidic, Rooney, Tevez (and he won a CL and Balon in that time), or Ozil, Alonso, Di Maria, Benz, Higuian, (none of which is even close to Barca's level) Raul (lol), etc? Pirlo clearly wasn't playing with Ballon D'or winners like Kaka, Shevchenko, or Nesta, Maldini, Seedorf, (and he won 2 CL, on WC, and reached a final CL) Ibra,(for one year, and they won the League) Pato,(always injured) and now De Rossi, Vidal, Marchisio, Pogba, Chellini (but none of these guys bar Vidal is close to Barca quality) etc?

Simply put, no player have ever constantly played with the SAME top talent for as much as Barca players.

The point here is that Xavi played for a great Barca team, that was assembled carefully for several years with a certain philosophy and style. This obviously worked for Barca as they managed the most constant assault on La Liga and Europe in history. No players outside of Barca were as carefully assembled together.

It does not make Xavi inferior to Pirlo because he played for a better teams, It just shows the stupidity of comparing two players when they are playing in completely different circumstances.

by RealGunner Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:10 pm

jibers wrote:
moutinho98 wrote:
jibers wrote:
moutinho98 wrote:
put xaviesta's lifetime goals+assists together they still cant match what CR7 scores in a season.

this united fan still on the first stage of grief
Goals are meant to win you games which are meant to win trophies...

Xavi has been the best CM in the last 20 years, arguably of all time. Ronaldo is not even in the debate with the GOAts. Xavi is one of the reasons Spain won the WC and EUROs, Iniesta was the best player in the last EUROS, scored WC winning goal that was more important bthan anything Ronaldo has done in his career... Xavi is ahead of him. For all Ronaldo's goals what does he win?

It's just common sense, IDGAF whether he was at united or Liverpool I will be objective either way.
Dafaq....xavi the best midfielder of last 30 years
where was him pre pep guardiola?? on the bench in champ league final. no one even knew he existed. likes of zidane pirlo were top midfielder for many years and this guy turns upat age of 28 and suddenly hes the best :lol:keep dreaming son. the guy is nothing but possession keeper. slow on the ball cant make a quick pass slows down everything. and he cant defend or shoot for shit.
how many balon dors has he got or has got close to winning? ? maybe 1 but CR7 is ALWAYS there. if it wsnt for midget messi he would become goat of decade.

ur deluded son.
Doing exactly the same thing but he was not central to the team because he had the likes of Deco ahead of him. Ronaldo was a 20+ goal winger till Fergie changed things and he went from 20 to 40+. Before Guardiola when Xavi was given the lynchpin role, o yea Spain only won that little trophy called the EUROS.

Pirlo was great but lol @ you. The level Xavi performed at in those 5 years, Pirlo never ever reached those heights in his career. Xavi becomes he centre of both NT and club teams and both start dominating. Yup, strange coincidence right there. Possession keeper? So he is good at retaining the ball? Okay...

Turned up in almost every big game while Ronaldo has flopped in most big games in his career. Even when he was at United he was flopping in big games. Xavi dominated every single big teams mf bar maybe inter and chelsea. 2 in the last 5 years mate...He started slowing down everything because that is what he has been asked. Watch him in EURO 2008 and Peps first season ffs. lol at can't defend and shoot. What's the max goals Pirlo or Zidane have scored in one season? That's what I thought...

Excellent post.

by harhar11 Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:31 pm

Winter is Coming wrote:Well Xavi did get into Barcelona starting XI at the age of 18 in 1998 and made about 30 apps helping Barcelona win the league title. In 1999 he won La Liga breakthrough player of the year. He won the 1999 Youth Championship and Silver medal in the Olympics with Spain. The Milan side in the early 2000 also tried to sign him, so imagine him playing with the likes of Nesta, Kaka, Shevchenko, Seedorf, Maldini and etc. They also offered him double, or triple the amount he was getting at Barcelona. I'm not too sure, but I think Galliani preferred him over Pirlo. Barcelona were on verge of bankruptcy in early 2000 till around 2003-2004. After the 1998 till around 2003-2004 they won nothing. Xavi only mistake at not getting his name out at a younger age was loyalty. He made regular appearance, but played more of a defensive role in his early years at Barcelona, eventually the arrival of Dinho/Deco, he stayed in his position, or played different positions in the middle. He won the best Spanish player in 2005, and returned from a 4 month injury, so had to sit on the bench for the final of 2006.

Xavi started off 2006-2007 a little slow, but improve his game overall. As jibers said in the another thread once, Xavi reached his potential in 2007-2008 season, thats when he won the Euros and was the best player in the tournament its insane how he finished 5th in the Ballon D'or and the the likes of Torres/Casillas finished ahead of him, should've been at least 3rd. After that he finished 3rd in the next 3 Ballon' D'or and if not for Messi/CR insane amount of goals he could've won two if not at least one Ballon D'or. He finished fifth in the last Ballon, so its been 5 years and he's been top 5 players. Zidane won two Ballon D'or, but he himself only finished in the top 5 about 4 times if I'm not mistaken.

Lord Spencer wrote:Xavi played "constantly" with better players than both CR and Pirlo did. It is no coincidence that his stock rose when all of Barca's did. Frankly, Xavi's superiority is as much a product of Messi, Ineista, and Yaya/Busquets as his own skills.
And CR didn't play with Figo, Deco with Portugal. Scholes, Giggs, Vidic, Rooney, Tevez, or Ozil, Alonso, Di Maria, Benz, Higuian, Raul, etc? Pirlo clearly wasn't playing with Ballon D'or winners like Kaka, Shevchenko, or Nesta, Maldini, Seedorf, Ibra, Pato, and now De Rossi, Vidal, Marchisio, Pogba, Chellini etc?

but according to some, Xavi was a nobody before Pep came..

And regarding their teammates, you are wrong. Only Barca players have had great teammates, every other football greats has had 10 awful to average teammates and have had to carry their team all by themself. Atleast that's most people seems to say when they are comparing a barca player with a non-barca player. They have even said that when talking about Zidane and the real Ronaldo. :facepalm:

by moutinho98 Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:48 pm

jibers wrote:
moutinho98 wrote:
jibers wrote:Goals are meant to win you games which are meant to win trophies...

Xavi has been the best CM in the last 20 years, arguably of all time. Ronaldo is not even in the debate with the GOAts. Xavi is one of the reasons Spain won the WC and EUROs, Iniesta was the best player in the last EUROS, scored WC winning goal that was more important bthan anything Ronaldo has done in his career... Xavi is ahead of him. For all Ronaldo's goals what does he win?

It's just common sense, IDGAF whether he was at united or Liverpool I will be objective either way.
Dafaq....xavi the best midfielder of last 30 years
where was him pre pep guardiola?? on the bench in champ league final. no one even knew he existed. likes of zidane pirlo were top midfielder for many years and this guy turns upat age of 28 and suddenly hes the best :lol:keep dreaming son. the guy is nothing but possession keeper. slow on the ball cant make a quick pass slows down everything. and he cant defend or shoot for shit.
how many balon dors has he got or has got close to winning? ? maybe 1 but CR7 is ALWAYS there. if it wsnt for midget messi he would become goat of decade.

ur deluded son.
Doing exactly the same thing but he was not central to the team because he had the likes of Deco ahead of him. Ronaldo was a 20+ goal winger till Fergie changed things and he went from 20 to 40+. Before Guardiola when Xavi was given the lynchpin role, o yea Spain only won that little trophy called the EUROS.

Pirlo was great but lol @ you. The level Xavi performed at in those 5 years, Pirlo never ever reached those heights in his career. Xavi becomes he centre of both NT and club teams and both start dominating. Yup, strange coincidence right there. Possession keeper? So he is good at retaining the ball? Okay...

Turned up in almost every big game while Ronaldo has flopped in most big games in his career. Even when he was at United he was flopping in big games. Xavi dominated every single big teams mf bar maybe inter and chelsea. 2 in the last 5 years mate...He started slowing down everything because that is what he has been asked. Watch him in EURO 2008 and Peps first season ffs. lol at can't defend and shoot. What's the max goals Pirlo or Zidane have scored in one season? That's what I thought...

lol you dont have the right to say xavi turns up in big games and CR7 doesnt. let me remind your selective memory that CR7 has bailed madrid out on so many occasions that your ancestors fingers can count and he scores on a regular basis against barca etc
when was the last time xavi did anything against a parked bus team? NEVER. more useless than emile heskey.

u think xavi could play in a counter attack team? rofl

he would have to turn his head a dozen times before making that first time pass and its already too late. pirlo has played in every set up u can think of and with success.

I wonder where xavi and all his cock suckers wuld be without missi and pep

which finally brings me to what I wanted to say @ the start

LOL@ u

by Donuts Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:08 am

such a dirty mouth from such a young boy
I think he is mad.

by The Franchise Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:16 am

Why are you talking about Xavi pre Pep like you actually saw the games?

I would direct you to Xavi vs Milan in 04 where he completely dominated the game...but you was what? 4 years old?

by FennecFox7 Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:36 am

"lol at can't defend and shoot. What's the max goals Pirlo or Zidane have scored in one season? That's what I thought..."

Laughing

again

xavi can defend?

come on, you said it yourself he is horrid at defense. How about that "tackling percentage"? oh wait, when we debate against CR7, all logic goes through the roof

Ronaldo only scores.. yeah thats some strong bullshit unless you compare him to messi. MESSI is the tab you guys use to compare him to. Well no crap when you compare a great to a god, you end up empty handed

He can dribble well, pass well, cross well, extremely fast (no pique video or ballestros video smh), and is powerful physically which lets him dominate the air

now lets note what i said. i said he can pass "WELL", not amazing, which would be players such as iniesta, ozil, xavi, messi, etc..

Put xavi with khedira and illara. you think he can dictate the pace with them? lol hell no. and it isnt his fault. the pace of the play is dictated by the team. As sam said, you need an orchestra to conduct, not a bunch of street players. its a team sport

by billy_gr Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:10 am

jibers wrote:
moutinho98 wrote:
jibers wrote:Goals are meant to win you games which are meant to win trophies...

Xavi has been the best CM in the last 20 years, arguably of all time. Ronaldo is not even in the debate with the GOAts. Xavi is one of the reasons Spain won the WC and EUROs, Iniesta was the best player in the last EUROS, scored WC winning goal that was more important bthan anything Ronaldo has done in his career... Xavi is ahead of him. For all Ronaldo's goals what does he win?

It's just common sense, IDGAF whether he was at united or Liverpool I will be objective either way.
Dafaq....xavi the best midfielder of last 30 years
where was him pre pep guardiola?? on the bench in champ league final. no one even knew he existed. likes of zidane pirlo were top midfielder for many years and this guy turns upat age of 28 and suddenly hes the best :lol:keep dreaming son. the guy is nothing but possession keeper. slow on the ball cant make a quick pass slows down everything. and he cant defend or shoot for shit.
how many balon dors has he got or has got close to winning? ? maybe 1 but CR7 is ALWAYS there. if it wsnt for midget messi he would become goat of decade.

ur deluded son.
Doing exactly the same thing but he was not central to the team because he had the likes of Deco ahead of him. Ronaldo was a 20+ goal winger till Fergie changed things and he went from 20 to 40+. Before Guardiola when Xavi was given the lynchpin role, o yea Spain only won that little trophy called the EUROS.

Pirlo was great but lol @ you. The level Xavi performed at in those 5 years, Pirlo never ever reached those heights in his career. Xavi becomes he centre of both NT and club teams and both start dominating. Yup, strange coincidence right there. Possession keeper? So he is good at retaining the ball? Okay...

Turned up in almost every big game while Ronaldo has flopped in most big games in his career. Even when he was at United he was flopping in big games. Xavi dominated every single big teams mf bar maybe inter and chelsea. 2 in the last 5 years mate...He started slowing down everything because that is what he has been asked. Watch him in EURO 2008 and Peps first season ffs. lol at can't defend and shoot. What's the max goals Pirlo or Zidane have scored in one season? That's what I thought...

by harhar11 Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:25 am

Giggity5313 wrote:"lol at can't defend and shoot. What's the max goals Pirlo or Zidane have scored in one season? That's what I thought..."

again

xavi can defend? come on, you said it yourself he is horrid at defense. How about that "tackling percentage"? oh wait, when we debate against CR7, all logic goes through the roof

Ronaldo only scores.. yeah thats some strong bullshit unless you compare him to messi. MESSI is the tab you guys use to compare him to. Well no crap when you compare a great to a god, you end up empty handed

He can dribble well, pass well, cross well, extremely fast (no pique video or ballestros video smh), and is powerful physically which lets him dominate the air

now lets note what i said. i said he can pass "WELL", not amazing, which would be players such as iniesta, ozil, xavi, messi, etc..

Put xavi with khedira and illara. you think he can dictate the pace with them? lol hell no. and it isnt his fault. the pace of the play is dictated by the team. As sam said, you need an orchestra to conduct, not a bunch of street players. its a team sport

Xavi is without a doubt better at defending than Zidane and, probably, Pirlo. I mean, doesn't Pirlo almost always plays with two DM? While Xavi used to play as a DM when he started.

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