Genoa - AS Roma

schnix wrote:if arsenal is a wannabe-barcelona, then that makes us, at this point, just an wannabe-arsenal

But we got rid of our french colony...

ErPupone wrote:

schnix wrote:if arsenal is a wannabe-barcelona, then that makes us, at this point, just an wannabe-arsenal

But we got rid of our french colony...

in favor of a spanish armada

our starting XI vs Genoa sorted by primary language
Spanish – 7
Italian – 3
Dutch – 1



and according to a google news article, Stekelenburg still communicates to his teammates on the pitch in English

Yea it's true, Stek said the other day that he's having problems with his Italian. This is a pretty big issue because a keeper has to properly communicate with his defenders. He says he's been using English and even a bit of Dutch lol. Once he improves his Italian, we'll see some better results (same thing applies to Lamela, Pjanic, etc).

Bring back Montella ffs, the man is doing an amazing job with Catania. Enrique and is tactics fail... The man is an embarresement. He does not know what the derby truly means, he does not know what Serie A works, he does not know that his logic in Italian football lacks.

Loosing to Lazio...
Loosing at the last minute...

Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo wrote:Bring back Montella ffs, the man is doing an amazing job with Catania. Enrique and is tactics fail... The man is an embarresement. He does not know what the derby truly means, he does not know what Serie A works, he does not know that his logic in Italian football lacks.

Loosing to Lazio...
Loosing at the last minute...

Tony, I like you man I really do, but your comments are getting old. What are you actually contributing with this post? You gotta stop being so cynical.

I don't neg rep very often, but you sure earned that one, Tony.

Actually I wouldn't say their old as what I'm saying continues. Have any of you seen what Montella has done with Catania? Were talking about Catania here.

If Montalla was still our manager,we would still have Doni here.

Bah one of my Romanista friends said the same things, but what Montella is doing now with Catania, compared to Roma is exceptional.

I've been monitoring Catania pretty closely. Montella has done an awesome job there...but he needed this for his career. He needed to get out from under Roma and strike out on his own, have and develop his own ideas. Pietro Lo Monaco has allowed that to happen at Catania and now they're reaping the benefits.

Montella is fine just where he is.

^Exactly. Montella is doing well, I'm happy for him. But whatever, who cares? It makes no difference to us.

Your bashing of Enrique is getting old, it's annoying and, more often than not, it's uncalled for. It seems as if you have no clue what we're trying to do here and not once have you actually looked at things objectively. You don't like him, fine, but posts like that are useless.

Mike, I don't see it being old if others in fact say the same thing and also the struggles continue, his name keeps being mentioned in the media, so it doesnt it make it old. To you, it may seem uncalled for, for me it's a different view as I, want to see Roma win, not lose in a derby in which he didn't even understand... 'When I first came here, they told me about this derby, apprently I have to win', told on Domenica Sportiva in Interivew. An interivew, to me gave me an impression that he knew nothing about the derby and what it really meant to Roma. Then loosing again at the last minute... Sorry, I don't like that.

Actually I'm very aware of the project and objectives. Just a few days ago, Mr.Enrique said Roma can't win the Scudetto, let's put it this way... It's Italy round two. Rebuilding a squad with Experience and youth. Here's my problem, Prandelli did a fantastic job up to this point, and Roma have done nothing to show me any good impressions, loosing a Derby is an embarresement, loosing the way Roma lost last game is just as the same.

Look Mike, I say the truth, wether it hurts or not. As an admier of Roma, I've praised a lot, to the players, to the management, to Tom(except his lack of knowledge but thats irrelavent) even claiming how amazing Sabatini is for doing something Marotta lacks. Defending Totti, and this might shock you, me saying in the Juve section that this squad is better than Juventus as a whole. Me, being myself, I critize Juve to the extreme, and so far, all I've done for Roma is defend it for reasons I think justify for. However, Enrique is something I just don't like right now and I feel it's something I should say, sure it may be annouying, but thats how I think.

The problem is that you don't back up your statements. You don't say "Enrique doesn't have a clue because he did this, this and this." You say "Enrique doesn't have a clue", and that comes off as an attack rather than an opinion.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:The problem is that you don't back up your statements. You don't say "Enrique doesn't have a clue because he did this, this and this." You say "Enrique doesn't have a clue", and that comes off as an attack rather than an opinion.

Read above, I just did and by the way, don't come up with none sense because I actually backed up all I said in the past when I actually went in depth with this. Refer to Roma's first game topics, and you will see for yourself.

Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo wrote:Mike, I don't see it being old if others in fact say the same thing and also the struggles continue, his name keeps being mentioned in the media, so it doesnt it make it old. To you, it may seem uncalled for, for me it's a different view as I, want to see Roma win, not lose in a derby in which he didn't even understand... 'When I first came here, they told me about this derby, apprently I have to win', told on Domenica Sportiva in Interivew. An interivew, to me gave me an impression that he knew nothing about the derby and what it really meant to Roma. Then loosing again at the last minute... Sorry, I don't like that.

Actually I'm very aware of the project and objectives. Just a few days ago, Mr.Enrique said Roma can't win the Scudetto, let's put it this way... It's Italy round two. Rebuilding a squad with Experience and youth. Here's my problem, Prandelli did a fantastic job up to this point, and Roma have done nothing to show me any good impressions, loosing a Derby is an embarresement, loosing the way Roma lost last game is just as the same.

Look Mike, I say the truth, wether it hurts or not. As an admier of Roma, I've praised a lot, to the players, to the management, to Tom(except his lack of knowledge but thats irrelavent) even claiming how amazing Sabatini is for doing something Marotta lacks. Defending Totti, and this might shock you, me saying in the Juve section that this squad is better than Juventus as a whole. Me, being myself, I critize Juve to the extreme, and so far, all I've done for Roma is defend it for reasons I think justify for. However, Enrique is something I just don't like right now and I feel it's something I should say, sure it may be annouying, but thats how I think.

I know you wanna see Roma succeed, so do all of we. I get all that. My point is that you are launching attacks on him, saying he's clueless, that he doesn't understand Serie A, etc, without any justification. And this even contradicts your other statements. I'll explain:

1. We chose Luis Enrique not because we wanted instant results, not because we wanted this year's scudetto. We chose him because we wanted to adopt a new mentality, a new style, one which is quickly becoming the dominant style in the world right now. This takes time, patience and lots of it. The losses are going to hurt, we know that. We were bound to lose a derby soon enough, and we did. Trust me, everyone in Rome understands what the derby is. Don't tell me that he doesn't know its meaning; give the guy at least some credit, I mean he's our manager ffs.

2. You compare him to Prandelli's revolution. I could see on some level how that's comparable. But no, Prandelli has a whole pool of players to choose from, whereas Enrique has his squad set already. I'm sure Enrique would like to be able to rotate between Rossi, Cassano, Giovinco, Montolivo, Aquilani, etc, but no he can't because it's impossible in every possible way. Also, Prandelli's revolution in terms of tactics is not as big as Enrique's, not even close. Prandelli has his players playing comfortably (aside from Montolivo, but even then...) in a style that suits them. Enrique instead is implementing a style that most of our players are unfamiliar with, and the improvements so far have been evident.

3. Most importantly... Your continuous attacks on Enrique, especially when you say he's clueless, is also an attack on Sabatini, Baldini and Di Benedetto. Let me ask you this, who hired Luis Enrique? And further, if Luis Enrique's sacking would mean that his implementation of the Spanish mentality was a complete failure, then wouldn't that mean that our entire management has also failed in not only trusting him, but of going out and spending money on Osvaldo, Bojan and Jose Angel? Trust me, if you have your wish granted with Enrique being shown the door, then all your for Sabatini and co. should also turn into , which means that you've praised them... for nothing.

1. His mentality and style is what I disapprove about him. Im not a fan of his tactics, nor do I personally believe they will go far in Serie A. Reasons already explained, and results show. Actually, from what I saw in that interview... concerning the derby... he didn't. Sure, now coaching in Roma, and getting his first feal of the derby, now he gets it. Tom Di Ben said, "Its like a Civil War", refering to my other post, Enrique gave a complete diverse answer.

2. Correction, Prandelli had to rebuild a whole team that went down horrifically in the World Cup, Roma on the other hand came off a pretty good season... so as in rebuilding a squad, they only rebuilt it towards youth, while Italy were rebuilding from scratch, completely different as in circumstances and yet Prandelli managed to do a good job, even from the beginnig. Yes he does have a squad set, a squad full of talent, youth and also exprience, a squad in which he asked for those players. Then again Mike, you also didn't mention that Prandelli only get his players once in two months average, while Enrique is with them almost every day, but again Prandelli sucess is still achieved even with the diversity of time needed in both club and international levels. Ah, and you mention another problem I have, 'a style he's implementing with players who are not familiar with it'... although, they are use to it by now of course, checking ball possesion, but yet they keep loosing...

3) You mis-understood my praises. My praises towards Sabatini is the transfers he's done, I've never praised Sabatini for his choice of bringinig Enrique in the first place. Tom, I praise for keeping his promise and doing more then what expected, but again nothing me saying that I praise him for keeping faith in him and Baldini, never mentioned as he just came now from England national team. Montella said it himself, if it was him, he'd be out of there like no tommrow, and he's right.

Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo wrote:1. His mentality and style is what I disapprove about him. Im not a fan of his tactics, nor do I personally believe they will go far in Serie A. Reasons already explained, and results show. Actually, from what I saw in that interview... concerning the derby... he didn't. Sure, now coaching in Roma, and getting his first feal of the derby, now he gets it. Tom Di Ben said, "Its like a Civil War", refering to my other post, Enrique gave a complete diverse answer.

2. Correction, Prandelli had to rebuild a whole team that went down horrifically in the World Cup, Roma on the other hand came off a pretty good season... so as in rebuilding a squad, they only rebuilt it towards youth, while Italy were rebuilding from scratch, completely different as in circumstances and yet Prandelli managed to do a good job, even from the beginnig. Yes he does have a squad set, a squad full of talent, youth and also exprience, a squad in which he asked for those players. Then again Mike, you also didn't mention that Prandelli only get his players once in two months average, while Enrique is with them almost every day, but again Prandelli sucess is still achieved even with the diversity of time needed in both club and international levels. Ah, and you mention another problem I have, 'a style he's implementing with players who are not familiar with it'... although, they are use to it by now of course, checking ball possesion, but yet they keep loosing...

3) You mis-understood my praises. My praises towards Sabatini is the transfers he's done, I've never praised Sabatini for his choice of bringinig Enrique in the first place. Tom, I praise for keeping his promise and doing more then what expected, but again nothing me saying that I praise him for keeping faith in him and Baldini, never mentioned as he just came now from England national team. Montella said it himself, if it was him, he'd be out of there like no tommrow, and he's right.

But are you actually that naive in thinking that Enrique doesn't know what the derby means? And what results? We're in mid-October ffs. Once again, we're not expecting instant results. So you have nothing to show that he is failing or that he will eventually fail.

Umm no, we had a bad season last year, we were supposed to challenge for the scudetto. Over the summer, we completely changed our team, meaning we did start from scratch, just like Prandelli, if not more. And what success has Prandelli achieved? I've defended Prandelli and Italy, but the national team has accomplished nothing yet. Now that we're on that topic, we should also ease up on this Prandelli praise because he's proved nothing yet. And as for that last sentence in that 2nd point, absolutely not. It doesn't take just 3 months to master ball possession. This isn't f****** Football Manager.

And lastly, there's a difference between Montella and Enrique. Montella's style would not have been as big of a change as the ones we're going through now.

I'll remind you that Totti said it might even take 5 years to build a winning team. That means that even Totti, who just turned 35, realizes that this team can't get instant results. Everyone has said that ROME WASN'T BUILT IN A DAY, so why are you expecting any different?

Niave? Not entirely, because he mentioned that he did not know what the derby was when he arrived, and that answer he gave out when he was questioned was pretty self explanatory if you ask me. Nothing to show that he is failing? Alright, you bring up the point what Roma don't expect Instant results, fine, however at this point, results should of been better than expected. With the squad you have right now, all the players, being experienced great players or young talented players and having trouble to win is an odd thing to say that its not a flop. Eventually fail is an assumption as I explained in the past, my beliefs think his tactics won't go far. Even Bacconi mentioned it a while back with the struggles he has with his tactics in Italian football.

A bad season? Wasn't your best, but wasn't as bad as you explained it. In Comparison to Italy, we failed big time by not even making it to the Round of 16 in one of the easiet groups in the World cup, going in Last place. Two complete different situations, with Roma having the better end of it. You did change your team, as did Italy, however we changed with a nation going down, while you change with a coach demanding for the players and recieving them from Sabatini and yet is not achieving anything due to his system. While Prandelli on the other hand had through a difficult stage just to find the right players, players that didn't even play on the international level before. What has Prandelli achieved so far? Mike, you out of all people should know though... In a span of a year he's done amazing work and has not even worked with his players everyday unlike Enrique does. But since you asked...

1) Have the best Defensive Record out of all the Qualifying Campaign(Only 2 goals)
2) Unbeaten both in Group and Top 2 Contenders(Spain and Germany)
3) With the highest points tally ever accrued by an Italian National Team
4) Went without conceding a goal for 715 minutes
5) Qualfied as the earliest historically in the Euro Qualfiers
6) Undefeated in Group Stage

What does this show? Results, unlike Enrique has done. Now, another comparison is Italy's new style of play, being compared to Barcelona, is the same sort of style Mr.Enrique uses and guess what, Prandelli managed to make it work great(except for finishing) with a team HE HARDLY SEE'S OR TRAINS WITH. Were talking about Italy here, Italians who are more use to italian football, playing with defensive tactics, most notably Catennaccio and yet they are managing pretty darn well over players Enrique chose and has everyday. He made it work great against the World Champions, the best at doing thier Tiki Taka crap.

Montella's style was proving to work both with Roma last season and with a midtable team Catania. Tactics that actually work in Serie A, unlike tactics Enrique is trying to implement here. Don't get me wrong Mike, you got Conte who is using a 4-2-4, and once again compred to Barca(even tho not using the same formation), depending on a two man mid, something hardly ever used in Serie A before and you know what the difference is? It worked immediately, with Juve, and it worked for Siena last season, but for some reason, with Enrique... nothing...

Well that's Totti's view, I just don't see it to be honest. This team should be ready in the next two years. but, I should also remind you how Enrique failed to qualify in EL due to having Totti on the bench, another error in which got me more ticked off.

Because Roma was already built, all they did was added renovations to it, to make it more better then before, sadly the one in command seems to being a bad job if you ask me. Though, your question should also be targgeted to Romanisti in Italy who apperently from what I read are loosing hope... with Di Benedetto actually calming the fans down the other day and reassuring them everything is okay...

Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo wrote:Niave? Not entirely, because he mentioned that he did not know what the derby was when he arrived, and that answer he gave out when he was questioned was pretty self explanatory if you ask me. Nothing to show that he is failing? Alright, you bring up the point what Roma don't expect Instant results, fine, however at this point, results should of been better than expected. With the squad you have right now, all the players, being experienced great players or young talented players and having trouble to win is an odd thing to say that its not a flop. Eventually fail is an assumption as I explained in the past, my beliefs think his tactics won't go far. Even Bacconi mentioned it a while back with the struggles he has with his tactics in Italian football.

A bad season? Wasn't your best, but wasn't as bad as you explained it. In Comparison to Italy, we failed big time by not even making it to the Round of 16 in one of the easiet groups in the World cup, going in Last place. Two complete different situations, with Roma having the better end of it. You did change your team, as did Italy, however we changed with a nation going down, while you change with a coach demanding for the players and recieving them from Sabatini and yet is not achieving anything due to his system. While Prandelli on the other hand had through a difficult stage just to find the right players, players that didn't even play on the international level before. What has Prandelli achieved so far? Mike, you out of all people should know though... In a span of a year he's done amazing work and has not even worked with his players everyday unlike Enrique does. But since you asked...

1) Have the best Defensive Record out of all the Qualifying Campaign(Only 2 goals)
2) Unbeaten both in Group and Top 2 Contenders(Spain and Germany)
3) With the highest points tally ever accrued by an Italian National Team
4) Went without conceding a goal for 715 minutes
5) Qualfied as the earliest historically in the Euro Qualfiers
6) Undefeated in Group Stage

What does this show? Results, unlike Enrique has done. Now, another comparison is Italy's new style of play, being compared to Barcelona, is the same sort of style Mr.Enrique uses and guess what, Prandelli managed to make it work great(except for finishing) with a team HE HARDLY SEE'S OR TRAINS WITH. Were talking about Italy here, Italians who are more use to italian football, playing with defensive tactics, most notably Catennaccio and yet they are managing pretty darn well over players Enrique chose and has everyday. He made it work great against the World Champions, the best at doing thier Tiki Taka crap.

Montella's style was proving to work both with Roma last season and with a midtable team Catania. Tactics that actually work in Serie A, unlike tactics Enrique is trying to implement here. Don't get me wrong Mike, you got Conte who is using a 4-2-4, and once again compred to Barca(even tho not using the same formation), depending on a two man mid, something hardly ever used in Serie A before and you know what the difference is? It worked immediately, with Juve, and it worked for Siena last season, but for some reason, with Enrique... nothing...

Well that's Totti's view, I just don't see it to be honest. This team should be ready in the next two years. but, I should also remind you how Enrique failed to qualify in EL due to having Totti on the bench, another error in which got me more ticked off.

Because Roma was already built, all they did was added renovations to it, to make it more better then before, sadly the one in command seems to being a bad job if you ask me. Though, your question should also be targgeted to Romanisti in Italy who apperently from what I read are loosing hope... with Di Benedetto actually calming the fans down the other day and reassuring them everything is okay...

Bring over Pep Guardiola or SAF to Roma and not even they could properly define the Rome derby in terms of the way YOU want it defined, Tony. Your accusation that LE didn't know what the derby is fallacious at best and downright unfair at worst.

You are far too impatient to be even a Roma admirer, let-alone a closet supporter. Look at Real Madrid when Mou first came in. They were simply atrocious at times and now look at them, playing some of the best football in Europe. We are not Real Madrid however and we certainly are not Barcelona. It will not take this team 2 years to get to the levels of teams of that caliber. It will take us longer than that. Romanisti, for all their impatience, are resigned to this fact. You are not and it shows each time you criticize this project.

Comparing the rebuilding projects of Roma and the National team is an apple-orange comparison. It doesn't fit the way you want it to fit and you're trying to force it to. If Italy bring in Owen Coyle or Leonid Slutskiy, then we can talk about how similar the building projects are because both of those men would try and use completely un-Italian tactics on an Italian team, just as LE is doing with us. Prandelli took a failing team, injected it with his own ITALIAN tactics and 'lo and behold...Italy are actually a Top 10 team again. It's not rocket science, brah and your making it out to be thermodynamics.

I agree that Montella's tactics would've brought us relative success. Would it have brought us more success than we're experiencing now? How exactly could you know? How could anyone? It never happened so that question cannot be answered so your assumption that it would is therefore invalid.

Totti's the ultimate Roma insider. He's been at this club all his career. Knows the inner workings inside and out. Has seen so many coaches and directors come and go. When he says that this current project will take about 5 years to complete, I absolutely believe him. He's right there in the thick of it. He's got the most enviable view of the whole thing. Our aim was never to win the EL this season so our elimination from it, while slightly embarrassing, is wholly irrelevant to the project itself.

Romans are a fickle and impatient people. They've always been that way throughout their 2000 year history. When emperors triumph they were loved, when they failed, they were killed. When this Roma side wins, the city loves the coach and when that coach fails, the city turns on him just as quick. Of course some are losing hope. Some of them actually thought we should go out and buy guys like Arjen Robben too. Some thought we should be challenging for the scudetto, the EL and CL qualification. Some are simply misinformed. Some simply don't have patience. Are you getting my point yet or should I keep going?

Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo wrote:Niave? Not entirely, because he mentioned that he did not know what the derby was when he arrived, and that answer he gave out when he was questioned was pretty self explanatory if you ask me. Nothing to show that he is failing? Alright, you bring up the point what Roma don't expect Instant results, fine, however at this point, results should of been better than expected. With the squad you have right now, all the players, being experienced great players or young talented players and having trouble to win is an odd thing to say that its not a flop. Eventually fail is an assumption as I explained in the past, my beliefs think his tactics won't go far. Even Bacconi mentioned it a while back with the struggles he has with his tactics in Italian football.

A bad season? Wasn't your best, but wasn't as bad as you explained it. In Comparison to Italy, we failed big time by not even making it to the Round of 16 in one of the easiet groups in the World cup, going in Last place. Two complete different situations, with Roma having the better end of it. You did change your team, as did Italy, however we changed with a nation going down, while you change with a coach demanding for the players and recieving them from Sabatini and yet is not achieving anything due to his system. While Prandelli on the other hand had through a difficult stage just to find the right players, players that didn't even play on the international level before. What has Prandelli achieved so far? Mike, you out of all people should know though... In a span of a year he's done amazing work and has not even worked with his players everyday unlike Enrique does. But since you asked...

1) Have the best Defensive Record out of all the Qualifying Campaign(Only 2 goals)
2) Unbeaten both in Group and Top 2 Contenders(Spain and Germany)
3) With the highest points tally ever accrued by an Italian National Team
4) Went without conceding a goal for 715 minutes
5) Qualfied as the earliest historically in the Euro Qualfiers
6) Undefeated in Group Stage

What does this show? Results, unlike Enrique has done. Now, another comparison is Italy's new style of play, being compared to Barcelona, is the same sort of style Mr.Enrique uses and guess what, Prandelli managed to make it work great(except for finishing) with a team HE HARDLY SEE'S OR TRAINS WITH. Were talking about Italy here, Italians who are more use to italian football, playing with defensive tactics, most notably Catennaccio and yet they are managing pretty darn well over players Enrique chose and has everyday. He made it work great against the World Champions, the best at doing thier Tiki Taka crap.

Montella's style was proving to work both with Roma last season and with a midtable team Catania. Tactics that actually work in Serie A, unlike tactics Enrique is trying to implement here. Don't get me wrong Mike, you got Conte who is using a 4-2-4, and once again compred to Barca(even tho not using the same formation), depending on a two man mid, something hardly ever used in Serie A before and you know what the difference is? It worked immediately, with Juve, and it worked for Siena last season, but for some reason, with Enrique... nothing...

Well that's Totti's view, I just don't see it to be honest. This team should be ready in the next two years. but, I should also remind you how Enrique failed to qualify in EL due to having Totti on the bench, another error in which got me more ticked off.

Because Roma was already built, all they did was added renovations to it, to make it more better then before, sadly the one in command seems to being a bad job if you ask me. Though, your question should also be targgeted to Romanisti in Italy who apperently from what I read are loosing hope... with Di Benedetto actually calming the fans down the other day and reassuring them everything is okay...

This might push my point further, read it all:

http://www.vocegiallorossa.it/?action=read&idnotizia=26390

But he is not failing. Show me who thinks he's failing, please do. 90% of the notable people who talk about him say they admire the work he's doing and that they think this will succeed. Yes, he has talented players, but they still don't know themselves well enough and a lot of them are getting used to life in Serie A. Guys like Stekelenburg and Pjanic don't even know the language yet, so the growing pains are going to be that much more. And Bacconi, ya he pointed out our flaws in week 1, good for him. Our play has changed radically from that match. I still have the match recorded, I could go back and point out all the changes so far. And Bacconi always takes out a 30 second clip and thinks he's summing up the whole match with it, when really you could talk about one game for hours.

You said it yourself, two completely different situations, we're comparing apples and oranges here (club and international football, two completely different scenarios). And everything that Prandelli has done does not matter, it's what you do in the big games in the real tournaments that counts. He's doing well, yes, but against rather weak sides. If he can't perform on the big stage, then he wouldn't have accomplished anything.... YET. And you can't compare the change in style firstly because Prandelli could choose from a wealth of players and is implementing a style that most players are already familiar with. Guys like Pirlo, Montolivo, Aquilani, Cassano, etc are somewhat already familiar with that style of play, while the likes of Perrotta, Pizarro, Cassetti and so on have never played in this type of set-up. You can't prove your point by using the national team's scenario because it's easily disproved and a pretty far fetch. And even Antonio Conte's tactics aren't as far of a jump from Luis Enrique's, especially given that Juventus was already playing a 4-4-2 (albeit a defensive one), while we, under Montella, were heavily relying on Totti to make the 4-2-3-1 work, which was very different from our current set-up. And as for Montella, that link I posted pretty much sums it up. Montella had to move on to another club where he could develop as a manager as well. He did well with us and I hope that he comes back one day, but he had to grow on his own imo. It would've been difficult for him to take on the responsibility of coaching this team from the start and the pressure would've been pretty high. Instead with Enrique, we're going in a different direction which is allowing us more time to get our shit together.

All I'm saying is that we have to at least wait until the end of the season before branding Luis Enrique a failure, if not more than that. You don't like him, so at the first stumble you take your chance to bash him. But in reality, you're losing sight of our whole project and work until now and what we still have to accomplish. You have to put your personal preferences aside when judging a scenario like ours because there are obviously going to be problems with it. It's how we solve those problems that's going to show what kind of team and what kind of coach that we have.

In response to both of you. First of all bringing Pep is another bad move as I once again don't like his style nor will it work. You see how long it's taking just to implement Enrique's 4-3-3 in Serie A? You see how hard it is for many players who join Serie A because they can't adapt to Italian Football. Italian Football is way to complex and bringing in a style that is played in Spain is a horrible move to make as it shows it will highly not work. It's like bringing Barcelona to Serie A, you think they would suceed the same in La Liga? No, that is the whole point. You know it's funny, because Tomas who lacks a lot of knowledge towards football and nobody can deny that, put the answer to the derby to perfection while Enrique's answerd differed to the point that dosent even compare to what Tomas said. So my accusation of him not understanding the derby is an assumption, hey I can be right or wrong, but from the impressions I got from his interview, the answer is NO.

Of course it will take 5 years with the horrible tactics going on, I truly believe it may be longer. However if Enrique manages to realize that Tick Taka none sense is not meant to Serie A, then most probably it would be faster than expected. 90%? That being the manageent right? Or if there is a poll, please correct me if I'm wrong and share it. Real Madrid comparison? Sure, you pretty much say it, your not either one of them Neal, but the squad you currently posses has the potential to be one of the best, if used right, and currently it's being used wrong. The language excuse really? It's odd, because the same excuse is being said about Elia not playing... I'm sorry, but I highly doubt that is one of your big problems right now, yes it's a particular one, but not major. You actually record games? I should start the same, prove some of those Juventini wrong, but you bringing that up could be interesting, because I on the other hand if I did that, I can show all the flaws in which can prove how his tactics are just not meant for Serie A. Bacconi said it, and you confirmed it good... So a tactical Expect(Not only coming from me) confirms what I said. And yeah, it did change since then... but yet still loosing...

Actually Neal comparing Roma and the Azzurri right now do fit, as they both fit in with the similarities. it makes no difference, if one is a club and the other is an international squad, the points still lie there and the point is, both went through a similar stage and currently one is doing better than the other, with almost the same styles of play. Correction, what Prandelli is doing now, is not Italian tactics. Italian tactics is what Lippi use to use, What Trappatoni uses, what Prandelli is using is MODERN Tactics, tactics influenced by Barcelona's style, in which the media likes to constantly compare too. Meaning, both Roma and Italy use the same ones and yet even though Prandelli does not use them everyday, it seams for him it works fine(because it's the international level) as for Enrique it's failing because again, it does not function with Italian football. If you do it in the big stages thats what counts... I see, Mike of course that is, however no matter what the case may be, results are there, records are there, stats are there, and matches are there. We've done it all in a span of year, including beating the World Champions. The logic still remains, Prandelli has proven that he can do the job, while Enrique not so much. Another correction, guys like Aquilani and Montolivo are not famaliar as in fact they either play as Normal CM's or Regista's, that being said their being utulized as Trequartista's... something their NOT famaliar with. Montolivo is failing at it and Aquilain hardly has time to make a name for himself. Actually I can prove it, as most of these players being used are not actually familiar in what they do... Maggio for instance a winger is used as a fullback, prime example of what I mean and yet still with the same philosphy used by both coaches, Prandelli has the upper hand even when not having his players everyday compared to Enrique. Juve were playing a 4-4-2 last season which is correct, though should I remind you how many players remainded from last season? Pepe is the only one doing his same job, when others are not. New players had to get adapted to this formation and at the begining it did have it flaws against Sporting, but then went on victorious against Chivas a squad who man handled Barcelona and so on and so fourth. While Enrique did the same training with his formation and yet failed in pre-season and now failing presently.

Bringing up Montella was just me saying how you could of had better options instead of using Enrique as for what you both said, I agree and not denying anything.

Correction on some of your history lesson there, as I'm not a tool towards Roman History espeically in Sports as I studied History of Spot in my first semester and in which I focused mostly on the Roman Gladiators and Roman Chariot games. Want to speak about fans? Sure... let's do so, let's talk about the Chariot games where, you had two sets of fans, the Green and the Blue. The Green supported the Emperor, the Blue were against him or challenged him. When ever a green Team or Blue team won, an emperor to gain political support would give the winning team supports a chance to demand something, this being Emperor Justinaian, Nephew of Augustus if not mistaken, anyways he would most of the time say yes to the Green's and say No to the Blue's. In which caused riots through out the empire, and the surrondings of the Amphitheaters... The point I'm trying to make here is, Each fan has their views, you got the ones who support Enrique and you got those who hate him. No matter what, in the end they still love Roma for who they are.

Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo wrote:In response to both of you. First of all bringing Pep is another bad move as I once again don't like his style nor will it work. You see how long it's taking just to implement Enrique's 4-3-3 in Serie A? You see how hard it is for many players who join Serie A because they can't adapt to Italian Football. Italian Football is way to complex and bringing in a style that is played in Spain is a horrible move to make as it shows it will highly not work. It's like bringing Barcelona to Serie A, you think they would suceed the same in La Liga? No, that is the whole point. You know it's funny, because Tomas who lacks a lot of knowledge towards football and nobody can deny that, put the answer to the derby to perfection while Enrique's answerd differed to the point that dosent even compare to what Tomas said. So my accusation of him not understanding the derby is an assumption, hey I can be right or wrong, but from the impressions I got from his interview, the answer is NO.

Of course it will take 5 years with the horrible tactics going on, I truly believe it may be longer. However if Enrique manages to realize that Tick Taka none sense is not meant to Serie A, then most probably it would be faster than expected. 90%? That being the manageent right? Or if there is a poll, please correct me if I'm wrong and share it. Real Madrid comparison? Sure, you pretty much say it, your not either one of them Neal, but the squad you currently posses has the potential to be one of the best, if used right, and currently it's being used wrong. The language excuse really? It's odd, because the same excuse is being said about Elia not playing... I'm sorry, but I highly doubt that is one of your big problems right now, yes it's a particular one, but not major. You actually record games? I should start the same, prove some of those Juventini wrong, but you bringing that up could be interesting, because I on the other hand if I did that, I can show all the flaws in which can prove how his tactics are just not meant for Serie A. Bacconi said it, and you confirmed it good... So a tactical Expect(Not only coming from me) confirms what I said. And yeah, it did change since then... but yet still loosing...

Actually Neal comparing Roma and the Azzurri right now do fit, as they both fit in with the similarities. it makes no difference, if one is a club and the other is an international squad, the points still lie there and the point is, both went through a similar stage and currently one is doing better than the other, with almost the same styles of play. Correction, what Prandelli is doing now, is not Italian tactics. Italian tactics is what Lippi use to use, What Trappatoni uses, what Prandelli is using is MODERN Tactics, tactics influenced by Barcelona's style, in which the media likes to constantly compare too. Meaning, both Roma and Italy use the same ones and yet even though Prandelli does not use them everyday, it seams for him it works fine(because it's the international level) as for Enrique it's failing because again, it does not function with Italian football. If you do it in the big stages thats what counts... I see, Mike of course that is, however no matter what the case may be, results are there, records are there, stats are there, and matches are there. We've done it all in a span of year, including beating the World Champions. The logic still remains, Prandelli has proven that he can do the job, while Enrique not so much. Another correction, guys like Aquilani and Montolivo are not famaliar as in fact they either play as Normal CM's or Regista's, that being said their being utulized as Trequartista's... something their NOT famaliar with. Montolivo is failing at it and Aquilain hardly has time to make a name for himself. Actually I can prove it, as most of these players being used are not actually familiar in what they do... Maggio for instance a winger is used as a fullback, prime example of what I mean and yet still with the same philosphy used by both coaches, Prandelli has the upper hand even when not having his players everyday compared to Enrique. Juve were playing a 4-4-2 last season which is correct, though should I remind you how many players remainded from last season? Pepe is the only one doing his same job, when others are not. New players had to get adapted to this formation and at the begining it did have it flaws against Sporting, but then went on victorious against Chivas a squad who man handled Barcelona and so on and so fourth. While Enrique did the same training with his formation and yet failed in pre-season and now failing presently.

Bringing up Montella was just me saying how you could of had better options instead of using Enrique as for what you both said, I agree and not denying anything.

Correction on some of your history lesson there, as I'm not a tool towards Roman History espeically in Sports as I studied History of Spot in my first semester and in which I focused mostly on the Roman Gladiators and Roman Chariot games. Want to speak about fans? Sure... let's do so, let's talk about the Chariot games where, you had two sets of fans, the Green and the Blue. The Green supported the Emperor, the Blue were against him or challenged him. When ever a green Team or Blue team won, an emperor to gain political support would give the winning team supports a chance to demand something, this being Emperor Justinaian, Nephew of Augustus if not mistaken, anyways he would most of the time say yes to the Green's and say No to the Blue's. In which caused riots through out the empire, and the surrondings of the Amphitheaters... The point I'm trying to make here is, Each fan has their views, you got the ones who support Enrique and you got those who hate him. No matter what, in the end they still love Roma for who they are.

Tony, please don't take what I'm about to say personally, but with no disrespect intended, who the f*** are you to say that Enrique's tactics will not work in Serie A? Who are you to dismiss his tactics before he has a chance to implement them? Who are you to say he will fail in mid-October of his first year in Italy. It is a complex project, but it doesn't mean it's going to fail. You're expecting him to make wine before he plants the vines. You're expecting him to become a father before he even gets the chance to f*** his wife. Your argument is at least 9 months premature, if not more.

How are his tactics horrible? Yes, Italian tactics are great, historically they are among the best, but that doesn't mean that everything else is shit. We are trying this out, it could fail or it could work brilliantly, but you can't say for sure which it will be at this point in time. You have to be more open-minded Tony, or else you're more likely to end up on the loosing end. For example, Lippi with Italy, not open-minded, won once, failed miserably the next. Next, just because some clowns on RAI compare Italy to Barcelona doesn't mean they use the same tactics, far from it actually. Italy still plays on the counter when they have to, they adapt to different situations, but it's not tiki taka or any of that stuff. That's Spain's mentality. Now you're going to say "oh, but Italy beat Spain, therefore Italian tactics are superior". BUT NO, because it's one damn game that Italy won by one goal, due to a deflection. Any other day, Spain might have ripped us apart, so that win really means nothing, especially because it was a friendly.

And btw, Bacconi, the tactical expert, is currently unemployed, so... Remember a few weeks ago when you dismissed Ranieri's opinions because he was unemployed, well I'm gunna do the same now. And Montolivo is familiar with Prandelli's methods since they know each other from his Fiorentina days. Aquilani is used to the Spalletti methods, not too far off there. You could somewhat compare Prandelli, Conte, Spalletti and Allegri, because there are certain ideas that they share. But you can't add Enrique to that list; yes Enrique and the others are offensive minded, but that's it. The Italians play much more vertically and look for that long ball to create space, while Enrique wants the ball on the ground and doesn't want those sudden changes in direction. This is also a valid way of playing football, you cannot simply dismiss it without giving it a chance... and by giving it a chance, I mean more than a month and a half into the season.

And also, how is Enrique failing exactly? We have 11 points. Take away two late goals conceded due to a lack in concentration in the final minutes, and we wouldn't be having this conversation because we would be right up Juve's ass.

And you want some credible sources that say we're on the right track? Fine, here you go:

Massimo Mauro, saying that we lacked concentration but that we're on the right track (and this guy usually bashes Roma)
http://www.vocegiallorossa.it/?action=read&idnotizia=26364

Serse Cosmi
http://www.vocegiallorossa.it/?action=read&idnotizia=26302

Giovanni Cervone
http://www.vocegiallorossa.it/?action=read&idnotizia=26262

Sebino Nela
http://www.vocegiallorossa.it/?action=read&idnotizia=26247

Zbigniew Boniek
http://www.vocegiallorossa.it/?action=read&idnotizia=26321

Stefano Capozucca
http://www.vocegiallorossa.it/?action=read&idnotizia=26199

Aldair
http://www.vocegiallorossa.it/?action=read&idnotizia=25477

Boniek again, Alessio Scarchilli and Ruggiero Rizzitelli
http://www.vocegiallorossa.it/?action=read&idnotizia=25079

Beppe Bergomi
http://www.vocegiallorossa.it/?action=read&idnotizia=24075

Even Giacomo Losi, Stefano Borgonovo, Mino Raiola and many more have expressed their liking for this project and their faith in it. But if you say it will fail, well then I guess it will...

Nothing personal is taken. Who am I to say it? Who are the others to say similar things towards Enrique or anything other coach a club has? It's a fan's perspective. Who am I to dismis his tactics? Not only me, others have too, though logically speaking his tactics in Italian football is what makes me dismiss it, explained. Who am I to say he failed in Mid October? Actually end of October to be exact and he has... Once agian explained. My arguments will be depended on the future, you see, I don't predict it, neither do you or anyone, however I'm giving my assumption on the future, and presently as well. As it stands, his tactics in Serie A, don't have a good future which is basically my point.

His tactics horrible? Depending how you understood my context. You see, Tiki Taka is not horrible within Spain, it's their culture, not ours. However it's horrible to bring into a culture so focused on defending, someting that to an extent won't go fluid with the league and making it not functional as I see it. Everything else is shit? I never said that to be honest, though... Defending has won more than attack.

Me open minded? If I wasn't open minded then I wouldn't be critizing things that I feel are wrong. I've been completely open minded with everything else, this is something that I will just accept and move on with. Lippi wasn't open minded, however he stuck with his views, even if he was right or wrong. Same implies here, who knows, I can be right or I can be wrong, but at the end of the day it's a typical forum debate, not everyone is suppost to agree or disagree. That's the beauty of this place. As explained to Neal in the history lesson it's pretty much the same moral.

Italy? Well speaking of them, they average out 60% of possesion per game including the one in Serbia. So going on the counter hardly happens as they dominate possesion just like Roma in which is part of both system of plays. In which also goes to the comparison of Barcelona, no it isn't Barcelona's module, but the similarities and conceptions of the philosphy they use is also adapted in with Roma and Italy.

Actually no, I wasn't going to say "Italian tactics are more superior because we beat Spain", but since you did bring that up. Italian tactics are more superior, Catenaccio has been around for decades while Tika Taka not so long, though... back in 2008, it took Spain a shootout to defeat Italy... and our history with our tactics is self-explanatory. However this is not the point, in saying that LE's tactics are better or not, the point is, his tactics won't work in Serie A simple. Platini said it himself, "Defense always superior to Attack".

Bacconi unemployed, how so? He's working in Torino with RAI. Though this is the same guy you praised not so long ago, saying things like 'FTW' and etc... So his opinion to you should some what matter a bit if not mistaken.

"While Enrique wants the ball on the ground", Mike thanks for claiming and also confirming what I was about to say. Prandelli is the exact same thing, the same. He does not want long balls, like used in the World Cup by Lippi. He does not want balls in the air, he wants it on the ground. Which again is another similarity within both Roma and Italy and the philosphy used by Barcelona.

How is he failing Exactly? I explained that in the posts above. Two late goals... was one of them mentioned. Ah, you mention Juve, in which I mentioned also earlier. Remember when I said, I expect Roma to beat Juve? Because it's true, your squad in my perspective is much more stronger than Juve and this is coming from a Juventino himself, now saying that, you mention being up our ass... Mike I expect you guys to be over asses not under it. The squad you have is too good for it just to have 11 points. Fine, Enrique said in his press-conference this was the best Roma he saw(against Genoa), but yet the best is a loss? Sorry, that dosen't cut it for me.

To clarify one thing, Massimo Mauro is critical to everyone, if you didn't notice a few weeks back, Allegri went nuts on him. However has not only praised Enrique, but also Conte. But he is not the best person to rely on within opinions as I find he tends to change them each and every week, I like someone like myself who sticks with his opinion and thats it.(Yes I know, I was wrong about Verratti me thinking he was nobody before actually doing research on him, but thats a one time deal.)

Mino Rioala? That man praises almost everyone, he treats Balotelli like a God

Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo wrote:Nothing personal is taken. Who am I to say it? Who are the others to say similar things towards Enrique or anything other coach a club has? It's a fan's perspective. Who am I to dismis his tactics? Not only me, others have too, though logically speaking his tactics in Italian football is what makes me dismiss it, explained. Who am I to say he failed in Mid October? Actually end of October to be exact and he has... Once agian explained. My arguments will be depended on the future, you see, I don't predict it, neither do you or anyone, however I'm giving my assumption on the future, and presently as well. As it stands, his tactics in Serie A, don't have a good future which is basically my point.

His tactics horrible? Depending how you understood my context. You see, Tiki Taka is not horrible within Spain, it's their culture, not ours. However it's horrible to bring into a culture so focused on defending, someting that to an extent won't go fluid with the league and making it not functional as I see it. Everything else is shit? I never said that to be honest, though... Defending has won more than attack.

Me open minded? If I wasn't open minded then I wouldn't be critizing things that I feel are wrong. I've been completely open minded with everything else, this is something that I will just accept and move on with. Lippi wasn't open minded, however he stuck with his views, even if he was right or wrong. Same implies here, who knows, I can be right or I can be wrong, but at the end of the day it's a typical forum debate, not everyone is suppost to agree or disagree. That's the beauty of this place. As explained to Neal in the history lesson it's pretty much the same moral.

Italy? Well speaking of them, they average out 60% of possesion per game including the one in Serbia. So going on the counter hardly happens as they dominate possesion just like Roma in which is part of both system of plays. In which also goes to the comparison of Barcelona, no it isn't Barcelona's module, but the similarities and conceptions of the philosphy they use is also adapted in with Roma and Italy.

Actually no, I wasn't going to say "Italian tactics are more superior because we beat Spain", but since you did bring that up. Italian tactics are more superior, Catenaccio has been around for decades while Tika Taka not so long, though... back in 2008, it took Spain a shootout to defeat Italy... and our history with our tactics is self-explanatory. However this is not the point, in saying that LE's tactics are better or not, the point is, his tactics won't work in Serie A simple. Platini said it himself, "Defense always superior to Attack".

Bacconi unemployed, how so? He's working in Torino with RAI. Though this is the same guy you praised not so long ago, saying things like 'FTW' and etc... So his opinion to you should some what matter a bit if not mistaken.

"While Enrique wants the ball on the ground", Mike thanks for claiming and also confirming what I was about to say. Prandelli is the exact same thing, the same. He does not want long balls, like used in the World Cup by Lippi. He does not want balls in the air, he wants it on the ground. Which again is another similarity within both Roma and Italy and the philosphy used by Barcelona.

How is he failing Exactly? I explained that in the posts above. Two late goals... was one of them mentioned. Ah, you mention Juve, in which I mentioned also earlier. Remember when I said, I expect Roma to beat Juve? Because it's true, your squad in my perspective is much more stronger than Juve and this is coming from a Juventino himself, now saying that, you mention being up our ass... Mike I expect you guys to be over asses not under it. The squad you have is too good for it just to have 11 points. Fine, Enrique said in his press-conference this was the best Roma he saw(against Genoa), but yet the best is a loss? Sorry, that dosen't cut it for me.

To clarify one thing, Massimo Mauro is critical to everyone, if you didn't notice a few weeks back, Allegri went nuts on him. However has not only praised Enrique, but also Conte. But he is not the best person to rely on within opinions as I find he tends to change them each and every week, I like someone like myself who sticks with his opinion and thats it.(Yes I know, I was wrong about Verratti me thinking he was nobody before actually doing research on him, but thats a one time deal.)

Mino Rioala? That man praises almost everyone, he treats Balotelli like a God

You're entitled to your opinions, we all are. The point I'm trying to make is that there's a difference between skepticism and cynicism. It's alright to be skeptical about a certain set of tactics and of a coach's approach. However, you branding Luis Enrique as a failure this early on shows that you're downright cynical towards his mentality and are refusing to look at how things really are. Now, it's difficult for any of us to be objective, but here's how I see it.

1. We're building a team for the future. This has been confirmed with the approach we've had in the transfer market. We got Pjanic, Lamela, Angel, Borini, Osvaldo, Kjaer not for instant success, but for success in a few years. Even our coach is one for the future. We could've went with Ancelotti or whoever else, but we went with Enrique. Why? To bring in a new mentality, a new style for the future of this club.

2. Over the next season or so, we will phase out the older generation which consists of Cassetti, Taddei, Pizarro and Juan and slowly replace them both from the inside and through future transfers. Guys like Totti and Perrotta will stay to provide that needed experience, especially because they are the club icons now.

3. Until that point where we could explicitly say that we are challenging for the Scudetto, Europa League or even Champions League, we will be in a growing phase. During this phase, there are going to be stumbles, it's inevitable. Not only will players make mistakes, but so will Enrique. That's how he will learn. Branding him a failure now is downright idiotic, because it would be like calling Pjanic a failure already. We have to give everyone involved with the club time to get used to the new mentality and their new lives around Trigoria altogether. So we let in two late goals, it happens. It's normal, especially in Rome where we're used to it. It happened under Spalletti, Ranieri and Montella too. It's something we have to fix (mostly it's a concentration issue), but you can't bash Enrique for it, especially after Genoa's lucky winner off a corner.

4. Tactics: Yes, a difficult point to approach. Like I said before, this could work brilliantly or fail miserably. We can't say which one it will be now, nor have we seen enough to say either it's working or it's failing. We're a work in progress and still in the very early stages (refer to my two comparisons in my other post). You could say that Prandelli is implementing new tactics too and that it's working and all that stuff, but the fact of the matter remains that there are still many differences between the Italian set-up and Roma's. You are only using that comparison very generally because you think it enforces your point, but it doesn't because the transformations that a national team goes through cannot be compared to that of a club. Simply put: Apples vs. Oranges, Ferrari vs. Toyota, Angela Lansbury vs. that chick in Metinsk's signature, whatever weird combinations that you could make, it just doesn't work.

This is how I see our club at the moment. We have 11 points, not fantastic, but not an utter disgrace either. More important at this point are the performances, not the results. The results will come eventually, but now we're not aiming for scudetto. We're simply aiming to get this team playing some good football. Now, that doesn't mean that we will accept a 14th place finish, obviously in that case there would be a problem. But we are not expecting results now, so better not to look at them just yet and just focus on the progress that the team is making under Enrique. And believe me, the progress until now has been encouraging.

Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo wrote:

Actually Neal comparing Roma and the Azzurri right now do fit, as they both fit in with the similarities. it makes no difference, if one is a club and the other is an international squad, the points still lie there and the point is, both went through a similar stage and currently one is doing better than the other, with almost the same styles of play. Correction, what Prandelli is doing now, is not Italian tactics. Italian tactics is what Lippi use to use, What Trappatoni uses, what Prandelli is using is MODERN Tactics, tactics influenced by Barcelona's style, in which the media likes to constantly compare too. Meaning, both Roma and Italy use the same ones and yet even though Prandelli does not use them everyday, it seams for him it works fine(because it's the international level) as for Enrique it's failing because again, it does not function with Italian football. If you do it in the big stages thats what counts... I

Bringing up Montella was just me saying how you could of had better options instead of using Enrique as for what you both said, I agree and not denying anything.

Correction on some of your history lesson there, as I'm not a tool towards Roman History espeically in Sports as I studied History of Spot in my first semester and in which I focused mostly on the Roman Gladiators and Roman Chariot games. Want to speak about fans? Sure... let's do so, let's talk about the Chariot games where, you had two sets of fans, the Green and the Blue. The Green supported the Emperor, the Blue were against him or challenged him. When ever a green Team or Blue team won, an emperor to gain political support would give the winning team supports a chance to demand something, this being Emperor Justinaian, Nephew of Augustus if not mistaken, anyways he would most of the time say yes to the Green's and say No to the Blue's. In which caused riots through out the empire, and the surrondings of the Amphitheaters... The point I'm trying to make here is, Each fan has their views, you got the ones who support Enrique and you got those who hate him. No matter what, in the end they still love Roma for who they are.

Completely disagree.

As I said, it's apples and oranges. You said it yourself. Prandelli has Italy for couple of games a month. Enrique has Roma all day, every day. HUGE difference there on how they can implement their styles and tactics. Enrique can constantly attempt to engrain his regimen and tactics on the players. Prandelli has a shorter time to do it, but knows these players a lot better than Enrique knows our players. Being that he's...y'know...Italian, perhaps?

And let me get this straight....Prandelli's allowed to grift Barcelona's tactics, apply them to Italy with a good deal of success and you glorify them and him, but when a man that has actually played for Barcelona and knows their culture and tactics inside out tries to do the same thing with an Italian team, he makes your shit list? This is a rather sizable contradiction.

Double standards much? You're letting Prandelli off the hook because he's Italian and his Barcelona-esque tactics just happen to be working.

---------------------

Sorry to say, but your Roman history is seriously lacking. Justinian lived nearly 250 years after Augustus so he wasn't his nephew. As for the bit about the Green and blue team....the sporting didn't really interest me so I can't really say much about it for lack of knowledge. What I do know is that the Emperor lived and died by the whim of the Roman people. This was especially true earlier in the empire's history. As I said, Romans are fickle. Roma's success is their success, but when they fail, its only Roma that fails. That's fickle to the core.

Seeing that I have no time to respond to you Mike, I will quickly respond to Neal and get to your post tommorow.

Actually I never said that, I said Prandelli has his players every few months not once a month. Actually that is completely false Neal, Enrique by now knows his players inside and out, Prandelli only coached about three of the players and the rest never has, and still to this date is not completely famliar with all the players he has due to his short time when Enrique in fact knows his players. What does him being Italian have to do with anything? And here's the catcher, even without knowing most of the players, even without seeing them and training for only a few days and not weeks, yet to see them play in a module never played before in Italian history adapt so fast, it makes you wonder how good he is doing and Enrique not even when being in the same circumstances.

Yes and I praise it for the reason that it's working and Prandelli made it work immediately. You see Neal, there's a difference, the philosphy used by Prandelli is being used in the international level where almot any system of play can be adapted, while Enrique is using the same concept(different formation), but in Italian Football, a league that will not function his style of play. That is the difference and that is the problem. Actually no condractions, as once again explained above over here.

Let's not get biased here and say "because he's Italian", because that is not the case at all. Results are what make my point.

================================
On Monday when I go back to School, I will refer to my text book, all I can say is this happened after the Roman Empire got to big and spilt up East and West, making it a Republic called Byzantine(orgins of modern Day Istanbul).