Last season, due to injuries and suspension, Mascherano and Busquets, two holding midfielders where used at centerback for Barca. Mascherano doing a great job defensively, while Busi less so, but his ability to start play from the back of course is fantastic.

Before them, Yaya Toure did it and held his own vs Drogba no less.

Already this season, I have seen Javi Martinez play at the back for Bilbao. His ability in the air of course is obvious as he stands 6 feet 3. But importantly with Bielsa as coach, having a play starter at the back gives a team a great advantage. Someone with great technique, composure and passing can start attacking moves more effectively then any defender.

Tonight apperently for Villareal, Bruno Soriano played at centerback for this exact same reason.

A while ago it become the norm for teams to have one player very capable of the ball to start offensive moves with precison. But it seems teams have gone a step further and have starting putting midfielders back there as even greater play starters.

I remember because of injury Man Utd played Carrick back there once and it didnt go well at all. Perhaps because he was up against a targetman in Zamora and the increased high balls in the PL tend to catch midfielders who arent used to this bombardment (like Carrick) by surprise.

But yes, these are 5 examples that come to my mind. Indeed at times these are forced due to injury, but there seems to be a growing trend or at least experiemention of midfielders playing at the back.

So, any other examples? Also, do we see this as something we might see more often in the future, especially for possession oriented teams?

Moar tiki taka

--------------------------Neuer-------------------
Contento---Gustavo--------Tymo------Pranjic
---------------Schweni-------Alaba-----------
Robben----------------Kroos-----------Ribery
-------------------------Muller-------------------

This team is made up of midfielders only, Bayern Munich players are so versatile.

Definitely seems to be a new trend...More and more teams seem to want players with significant ball playing skills at the back

Its interesting to say the least...but I can't help feeling that all those players are sort of being wasted stuck in the back (with the possible exception of Mascherano...only because there really isn't space for him in midfield)

Almost every top team has a 'ball-playing' defender or some sort that can start attacks off.

Pool - Agger
Chelsea - Luiz/Alex
UTD - Ferdinand
RM - Carv
Barca - Pique
Inter - Lucio

You always hear about 'defending from the front' so why not 'attack from the back'? Given how important full-backs are in the modern game it seems logical that center-backs be able to do the same. You can't really assign a striker to follow a CB like wingers do full-backs if he decides to waltz up the pitch, he'd be too far away from goal.

Can we really call it a trend when it's happening in thin squads that need quick fixes? That looks like 'necessity is the mother of all inventions' to me.

Although I agree that generally speaking in teams where they rely on starting attacks from the back the skillset of a defender is often very compatible with that of a defensive midfielder, so the move is perfectly logical.

For Barca, true...

But Villareal and Bilbao weren't injury plugs, they were conscious decisions by the respective coaches

Not really new.

It just shows the lack of quality CBs available in the market/overall.

As said, most DMs have better on ball movement a typicial CB, and with the physical nature of today's game, most big guys can pull it off.

yes, you can thank Arsene for making it popular

Great thread dani,Mascherano has been incredible at CB imo,better than even pique.Bruno played like he was playing there for his entire career.

It shows a trend that is obviously related to Ball playing CBs,we are moving to a world where building from the back line is as important as a final third play.To build the play from the back you need ball playing CBs.

They all play in La Liga, must be coincidence. For EPL teams, don't think it's tactical decision more like injury quick fix. There are players comfortable with these two roles like Jones or Song but that's rare.

and Rodwell

bhends wrote:Definitely seems to be a new trend...More and more teams seem to want players with significant ball playing skills at the back

Its interesting to say the least...but I can't help feeling that all those players are sort of being wasted stuck in the back (with the possible exception of Mascherano...only because there really isn't space for him in midfield)

I am not sure they are being wasted though.

Especially Bruno Soriano and Busquets. None of them get into the final 3rd and make things happen anyway. Their positioning (heat map) doesnt really change drastically, they didnt really get into the attacking 3rd before and they dont now.

Both of them, aswell as Javi Martinez carried the ball out from the back when possible and got into midfield.

Javi Martinez was playing with Gurpegi in front of him, who is pretty much useless with the ball and a pure defensive destroyer. So he was allowed to carry the ball far into midfield while Gurpegi could cover.

Didn't we have that discussion in that thread about that barca article? ^^

But yeah, I don't think it#s a new trend, especially since modern CBs are basically tall DMs.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Can we really call it a trend when it's happening in thin squads that need quick fixes? That looks like 'necessity is the mother of all inventions' to me.

Although I agree that generally speaking in teams where they rely on starting attacks from the back the skillset of a defender is often very compatible with that of a defensive midfielder, so the move is perfectly logical.

Well perhaps, but Javi Martinez and Bruno Soriano were through choice not necessity. Bielsa and Garrido both had other options at centerback, they had legit centerbacks on the bench or even on the pitch. But it was a concious decision to play midfielders back there because of their play starting ability.

Also, Pep if he wanted could of chosen Fontas, or with Yaya chosen Caceres, instead of midfielders.

ali8775 wrote:yes, you can thank Arsene for making it popular

How so?

When did he do this?

All I can think of Song being transformed from a centerback to defensive midfield....which obviously isnt what im asking or something new.

Magricos wrote: Not really new.

So who else other then the players I named do it?

I did ask who else has done it within the OP.

VivaStPauli wrote:Didn't we have that discussion in that thread about that barca article? ^^

But yeah, I don't think it#s a new trend, especially since modern CBs are basically tall DMs.

I actually dont recall, you will have to refresh my memory.

Second point, but what about the use of Bruno Soriano and Mascherano, neither are tall DMs at all.

Also, I struggle to name anything more then 4 or 5 defenders who have the ability of most DMs on the ball.

Sure, those CBs are rare, but they're what modern coaches look for.

Maybe my perspective is too German in this, but for example, in our NT Löw has kept calling up defenders who aren't that great at defending because of their skills on the ball, like Badstuber, or Tasci. Boateng is another defender who's great on the ball, just like Hummels.

Then there's players like Lucio, or Demichelis. Sure, those DMs that aren't as tall probably wouldn't get playing time as CB in England or Germany, or not much, but they just might (and do) in La Liga.

Maybe there's a shift in priorities and it's becoming more important, but coaches have looked for those types of defenders for a couple of years now, opening up play from very deep instead of blindly clearing balls away from the own box.

Indeed, can see and agree with that conclusion.

I think generally coaches are seeing the importance of possession and command of the game. Every position on the field being looked at to enhance this for many teams.

Its more a change (somewhat) in thinking and challanging the natural sterotypes for positions.

I think we will see alot more of it to be honest and more teams doing it. Maybe even a team doing it permantly, like Bilbao. I could see Javi Martinez being used at the back for Bielsa pretty often if not perma.