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Universal Basic Income
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BarcaLearning
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El Gunner
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Universal Basic Income
by El Gunner Sun Jul 21, 2024 7:17 pm
https://www.hindustantimes.com/business/elon-musk-believes-in-universal-basic-income-ubi-once-ai-takes-over-his-top-8-quotes-101719119942220.htmlElon Musk feels a universal basic income will give more freedom over time & money, predicting the productive AI economy making income not just basic, but high.
Elon Musk, the CEO of Tesla and SpaceX, and owner of X (formerly Twitter), is one of the biggest proponents of universal basic income (UBI), expecting it to become necessary when robots and AI take over a large portion of jobs, Business Insider wrote.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJnbqG_eQ-w
like Musk, I believe it is inevitable, and looking at the world today, i think the pros of it outweigh its cons
discuss...
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Re: Universal Basic Income
by Warrior Sun Jul 21, 2024 8:09 pm
It already exists in the form of social welfare
Also Musk says that with automation will come abundance but i think it's a deluded reasoning. More like inflation will keep growing and increasing amount of people will live in poverty. In many cases it's less expensive (and more reliable) to pay some dude 30$ an hour instead of paying a machine and all the costs that comes with it on the long term.
Also if nobody is paying taxes where does the government/UBI money come from ?
Also Musk says that with automation will come abundance but i think it's a deluded reasoning. More like inflation will keep growing and increasing amount of people will live in poverty. In many cases it's less expensive (and more reliable) to pay some dude 30$ an hour instead of paying a machine and all the costs that comes with it on the long term.
Also if nobody is paying taxes where does the government/UBI money come from ?
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Re: Universal Basic Income
by Warrior Sun Jul 21, 2024 8:27 pm
It's a lazy reasoning to avoid taking economy into account
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Re: Universal Basic Income
by BarcaLearning Sun Jul 21, 2024 8:30 pm
Musk is full of delusional or intentional bs anyway?
If everyone got paid very little money enough just to survive, I suppose it may work then I can imagine those sci-fi movies would be true, everyone just stays at home tuning into VRs for their lives... cos real life just would be crap in comparison since they cant afford anything bar the minimums..?
If everyone got paid very little money enough just to survive, I suppose it may work then I can imagine those sci-fi movies would be true, everyone just stays at home tuning into VRs for their lives... cos real life just would be crap in comparison since they cant afford anything bar the minimums..?
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Re: Universal Basic Income
by Myesyats Sun Jul 21, 2024 8:32 pm
Musk is for UBI, electric cars, solar, batteries, sustainable energy and people still consider him right wing 
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Re: Universal Basic Income
by Myesyats Sun Jul 21, 2024 8:34 pm
BarcaLearning wrote:Musk is full of delusional or intentional bs anyway?
If everyone got paid very little money enough just to survive, I suppose it may work then I can imagine those sci-fi movies would be true, everyone just stays at home tuning into VRs for their lives... cos real life just would be crap in comparison since they cant afford anything bar the minimums..?
UBI seems inevitable though doesnt it? If AI takes over all the work that needs to be done, what is left to do for humans?
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Re: Universal Basic Income
by Pedram Sun Jul 21, 2024 8:41 pm
BarcaLearning wrote:Musk is full of delusional or intentional bs anyway?
If everyone got paid very little money enough just to survive, I suppose it may work then I can imagine those sci-fi movies would be true, everyone just stays at home tuning into VRs for their lives... cos real life just would be crap in comparison since they cant afford anything bar the minimums..?
It's in the name, Universal BASIC Income. the payment amount will no where near enough to cause people to leave their jobs.
In Iran this is already kinda implemented btw, here the amount is super low and at best covers 15% of your expenses.
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Re: Universal Basic Income
by Pedram Sun Jul 21, 2024 8:46 pm
Myesyats wrote:Musk is for UBI, electric cars, solar, batteries, sustainable energy and people still consider him right wing
UBI is actually a right-wing idea believe it or not, because it gives them an excuse to cut people's social security and streamline government expenses.
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Re: Universal Basic Income
by El Gunner Sun Jul 21, 2024 8:48 pm
Warrior wrote:It's a lazy reasoning to avoid taking economy into account
AI will be the economy...
there will be the technocrats with their palaces and underground bunkers, and the masses in their 5x5m apartments
maybe at best there will be some sort of computer system where you do bullshit online work for e-coins like one of the Black Mirror episodes, just to tell your brain you're doing something valuable and you're competing against your fellow man
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Re: Universal Basic Income
by El Gunner Sun Jul 21, 2024 8:50 pm
Pedram wrote:BarcaLearning wrote:Musk is full of delusional or intentional bs anyway?
If everyone got paid very little money enough just to survive, I suppose it may work then I can imagine those sci-fi movies would be true, everyone just stays at home tuning into VRs for their lives... cos real life just would be crap in comparison since they cant afford anything bar the minimums..?
It's in the name, Universal BASIC Income. the payment amount will no where near enough to cause people to leave their jobs.
In Iran this is already kinda implemented btw, here the amount is super low and at best covers 15% of your expenses.
Musk believes it can eventually become Universal HIGH Income
maybe he is too much of a dreamer, who knows...
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Re: Universal Basic Income
by Warrior Sun Jul 21, 2024 8:56 pm
@Pedram if you have to stop working because an AI can do your job, you'll be ok with living at 15% of your current lifestyle ? It's unrealistic
Government printing money as if it's made up and giving it away for free will cause inflation
By the way automation has already infiltrated every domain in which it's profitable to do so. We are not at the very beginning of the electronic revolution. So i believe pushing for BUI is an idea made by people such as Elon Musk who have personal interest keeping people quiet, naively hoping for better days.
Government printing money as if it's made up and giving it away for free will cause inflation
By the way automation has already infiltrated every domain in which it's profitable to do so. We are not at the very beginning of the electronic revolution. So i believe pushing for BUI is an idea made by people such as Elon Musk who have personal interest keeping people quiet, naively hoping for better days.
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Re: Universal Basic Income
by Pedram Sun Jul 21, 2024 9:09 pm
Warrior wrote:@Pedram if you have to stop working because an AI can do your job, you'll be ok with living at 15% of your current lifestyle ? It's unrealistic
Government printing money as if it's made up and giving it away for free will cause inflation
By the way automation has already infiltrated every domain in which it's profitable to do so. We are not at the very beginning of the electronic revolution. So i believe pushing for BUI is an idea made by people such as Elon Musk who have personal interest keeping people quiet, naively hoping for better days.
This is basically Elon Musk and other hyper-capitalists admitting the system has hit a brick wall and needs some tinkering to survive. don't believe for a second they care about people's wellbeing, this is them saving capitalism from itself.
Just my two cents.
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Re: Universal Basic Income
by El Gunner Sun Jul 21, 2024 9:12 pm
Warrior wrote:We are not at the very beginning of the electronic revolution.
oh i think we are...
i can't even begin to think how the world will look by 2030, let alone 2050.
We are 16 years into social media, and those 16 years have felt like an eternity in terms of how much our social dynamics have changed
i live in a country where automation is barely that advanced, but just looking at the state of things, i think not only Namibia, but the entire world is on the edge of economic boiling point... i mean, we're already in the midst of it...
Covid taught us that most people would rather prefer working from home... most people who have jobs, no matter how much they pay, don't really like their jobs and the exhaustive hours and colleagues attached to it... most people entering the job market today, just work to survive (eat and pay rent)... buying a house, with a nice yard, and a decent car feels like a pipe-dream.
the average fall-in-between job for a man that you get these days are Uber gigs and delivery driving... once robots start driving cars, it's OVER like Joe Biden.
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Re: Universal Basic Income
by Warrior Sun Jul 21, 2024 9:55 pm
When automation hits Namibia don't expect the government giving you free money and if they do it would be a major mistake and your life won't get better from it.
People not liking their jobs is not a new phenomenon, if covid pandemic thought us something is that working from home equals much worse performance from employees and government officials, you notice it when you wait 2 weeks for an apointment at the license office while you used to wait 20 minutes. I don't see such mentality as sustainable on the long term.
A lot of jobs won't suffer from AI takeover. Mine as truck driver for example, my salary and social advantages are too cheap for an AI replacement to be profitable on the long term. My friends in construction are not worried either. You work because welfare is not enough to survive and that's with majority of people paying taxes
imagine with a majority on welfare and the inflation that comes with it
AI revolution modifies the economy but it will not create abundance of stuff while people live on "basic universal income" because it's in nobody's interest to contribute in such reality taking place
People not liking their jobs is not a new phenomenon, if covid pandemic thought us something is that working from home equals much worse performance from employees and government officials, you notice it when you wait 2 weeks for an apointment at the license office while you used to wait 20 minutes. I don't see such mentality as sustainable on the long term.
A lot of jobs won't suffer from AI takeover. Mine as truck driver for example, my salary and social advantages are too cheap for an AI replacement to be profitable on the long term. My friends in construction are not worried either. You work because welfare is not enough to survive and that's with majority of people paying taxes
imagine with a majority on welfare and the inflation that comes with itAI revolution modifies the economy but it will not create abundance of stuff while people live on "basic universal income" because it's in nobody's interest to contribute in such reality taking place
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Re: Universal Basic Income
by El Gunner Mon Jul 22, 2024 11:57 am
^^let's hope you are right it doesn't come to that
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Re: Universal Basic Income
by McLewis Mon Jul 22, 2024 7:09 pm
I think this is an encouraging example of what UBIs can do:
Denver gave people experiencing homelessness $1,000 a month
— philip lewis (@Phil_Lewis_) June 25, 2024
Results showed that close to half of the participants secured housing, and nearly $600K saved in public service costs due to fewer ER visits & jail stays. They also saw improved mental healthhttps://t.co/Qawc4bua79
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Re: Universal Basic Income
by elitedam Mon Jul 22, 2024 8:05 pm
Myesyats wrote:Musk is for UBI, electric cars, solar, batteries, sustainable energy and people still consider him right wing
If the guy giving Trump 45 mil a month is not right wing, then who the fuck is?
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Re: Universal Basic Income
by Pedram Mon Jul 22, 2024 8:48 pm
Musk being a leftist is one of those galaxy brain takes.
If you just take a cursory look at his X timeline you'll see how much he repeats Republican talking points ad nauseam.
If you just take a cursory look at his X timeline you'll see how much he repeats Republican talking points ad nauseam.
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Re: Universal Basic Income
by Myesyats Mon Jul 22, 2024 8:52 pm
elitedam wrote:Myesyats wrote:Musk is for UBI, electric cars, solar, batteries, sustainable energy and people still consider him right wing
If the guy giving Trump 45 mil a month is not right wing, then who the fuck is?
Being anti-left doesnt make you right-wing, just makes you anti-left
https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-political-beliefs-public-stances-timeline-republican-desantis-2022-6?IR=T
He's been donating to both parties for years. Donated to Obama in 2008 etc
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Re: Universal Basic Income
by Pedram Mon Jul 22, 2024 9:14 pm
Musk is right-wing though, he pretty much agrees with Republicans 99% of the time.
If you can't see that perhaps you're a right-wing too or maybe just suffering from cognitive dissonance.
If you can't see that perhaps you're a right-wing too or maybe just suffering from cognitive dissonance.
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Re: Universal Basic Income
by elitedam Mon Jul 22, 2024 9:15 pm
Like Pedram said, look at his recent stuff. He's not anti-left, he's pro-morons.
I don't know if it was the culture wars, or maybe it was the Thai cave stuff, but he's been constantly parroting far right bullshit like the Great Replacement Theory on Twitter.
I don't know if it was the culture wars, or maybe it was the Thai cave stuff, but he's been constantly parroting far right bullshit like the Great Replacement Theory on Twitter.
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Re: Universal Basic Income
by Myesyats Mon Jul 22, 2024 9:24 pm
I am more interested in actions than words though. And his actions are that he devoted all his life to forwarding renewable energy which is not a right-wing value
People are complex you know, one or other label doesnt define them
People are complex you know, one or other label doesnt define them
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Re: Universal Basic Income
by Pedram Mon Jul 22, 2024 9:36 pm
Myesyats wrote:I am more interested in actions than words though. And his actions are that he devoted all his life to forwarding renewable energy which is not a right-wing value
People are complex you know, one or other label doesnt define them
Why do you think he is so pro Trump then, do you honestly believe a leftist would back Trump?
Look Musk is a muti-billionaire, he might be in favor of some token sensible policies like renewable energy, which to be honest, can't be really placed on a political spectrum, using renewable energy is just common sense at this point, it's not a left or right issue.
But even that idea is purely being pursued for his own self interest and enriching himself, he wants to make electric cars a thing obviously.
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Re: Universal Basic Income
by Myesyats Mon Jul 22, 2024 9:40 pm
Pedram wrote:Myesyats wrote:I am more interested in actions than words though. And his actions are that he devoted all his life to forwarding renewable energy which is not a right-wing value
People are complex you know, one or other label doesnt define them
Why do you think he is so pro Trump then, do you honestly believe a leftist would back Trump?
I never said he's a leftist either
I don't get why people are so tribal these days. I agree on some stuff Dems say and other stuff that Republicans
Is it so hard to comprehend that people in the centre exist? Actually I'd argue it's most people in actual real world
I want renewable energy. I want opportunity for all. I'm pro abortion but I also want a secure border and common sense. IF someone is following their party like a cult you're a weirdo imo
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