After watching Liverpool's B team play the Serie A league leaders off the park at San Siro it got me thinking how much better the PL top teams are.

They have the best coaches and the most money. It's no wonder the non-English top teams want the Super League as that will be their only way of competing moving forward.

I think Bayern would be competing with City/Chelsea/Liverpool.

Barca would be in a relegation battle scrap.

What about the rest? What do you think?

City/Pool/Bayern
Chelsea
Real/Spurs/United/Inter/Juve/Milan
Arsenal/West Ham/Napoli/Leicester/Atalanta/Atletico
Barca/Dortmund/PL 10-15th

IMO

dunno though, Inter and Juve have decent starting 11's but after that it looks like a Serie B squad. couple injuries away from having Tancredi Palmieri as their talisman, so I'm tempted to put them in a lower tier

I think the question more is how your Serie A league topping team can't breakthrough a local British postcode found youth players, considering you bring Liverpool into this and calling out money when we are the worst examples you can put out.

Your take doesn't reflect reality in the slightest.

You seem to suggest that PL teams have reached an incredible level that it has become practically impossible to compete with them. Reality is, they really are far from being unbeatable.

The only time I felt a certain league was way ahead of everybody else was La Liga in the last decade. They had the best players, the best coaches and the CL was their playground. Not even going to mention the Sevilla Europa league.

The PL, on the other hand, still hasn't been able to reach that level for two main reasons:

1. They haven't been lucky enough to have players like Ronaldo, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Casillas,... (and the list goes on to the horizon and beyond) in their prime competing in the same league at the same time. So they are left standing with big mountains of cash and nobody worthy enough to spend it on.

2. They owe their success to The Bald Fraud, Klopp and Tuchel. So they are not exactly successful because they have amazing management. They are successful because they have the best three managers in Europe right now. Once those three leave, you'll see a clusterfuck à la United, where a club is loaded with cash but has absolutely no clue how to get to their best again.

Now, keep in mind that most of the other big clubs in Europe are still in hibernate mode right now. They are not exactly thinking about competing in the CL right now so much as surviving the Covid aftermath. Once their financial wellbeing is restored, you will get a better picture about everything.

I'll end my take with this: it's great to have a strong financial muscle that allows you to get the best players in the market. It really helps to get silverware. Believe me, I'm a Madrid fan, I know. But your money means absolutely jack shit when you fail to get Mbappé and Haaland.

So what you need to do right now to guarantee that your league will stay dominant in Europe even after The Bald Fraud, Klopp and Tuchel are gone is to secure the services of those two. If you fail, there's a fair chance you won't stay at the top for long

PL is the Super League. Or at the very least the closest thing to it.

It depends a lot of the parameters

I'll start by saying Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool are the english clubs that i perceive as top european clubs. Arsenal and Tottenham sadly a level below, they are already in PL and get relatively disappointing results.

Juve as example. If we enter the PL give us a few years to adapt and we are contenders each season. Would be the same for Real and Bayern i think, it's not by mistake if they are historically the top club with the most titles in their respective countries. I struggle where to put Barca and Milan, currently in opposite trajectories, they have history of excellence but their current management won't convince me. Inter, Dortmund, Lyon, Porto and i guess Ajax they are smart managements with lesser budget. I would think all of the above can compete for the top 6 and european spots every year. This is what i propose if a given club enters the PL individually and remain there with the same money income as english clubs.

If you merge every european top club in PL in some sort of Super League it gets very complicated to predict what the top 10 will look like

Maybe you meant just for this season with current squads, then idk, i don't follow Premier League regularly. But i got a feeling with our terrible midfield Juve would not rank very high

This is not actually informed by Net Spending in the last decade, where Series A teams have comparable numbers with the PL, but did it badly (Liverpool with less net spend than Milan, but still high despite some people acting like they never spend anything).

However, its going to get worse when the effects of the new TV deal kicks in. We are yet to see the effect of that monster.

The success of the PL sportingly is a combination of smart spending, excellent coaching, and it being a key desirable destination for many players due to reputation and other factors. Now, it will add unrivaled financial muscle into the equation.

The only solution for big teams is to be extremely innovative with moneyball type players, because other than a few teams, we won't be able to meet our best players for long anymore.

To answer the question, based on current ability:

Bayern, PSG, and maybe Madrid would challenge for top 6, with Bayern a possible title contender.

All top 5 Serie A teams will be a solid Mid-Table along with the strongest German and Portuguese teams with no hope of European qualification.

In the past few years, I might have put Juve with the top 6 group.

Barça are probably the worst top team at the moment, when just 3-4 years back, they were title contenders for the PL.

Falling down can happen very quickly. Rising is very slow, and it may never happen.

The Demon of Carthage wrote:Your take doesn't reflect reality in the slightest.

You seem to suggest that PL teams have reached an incredible level that it has become practically impossible to compete with them. Reality is, they really are far from being unbeatable.

The only time I felt a certain league was way ahead of everybody else was La Liga in the last decade. They had the best players, the best coaches and the CL was their playground. Not even going to mention the Sevilla Europa league.

The PL, on the other hand, still hasn't been able to reach that level for two main reasons:

1. They haven't been lucky enough to have players like Ronaldo, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Casillas,... (and the list goes on to the horizon and beyond) in their prime competing in the same league at the same time. So they are left standing with big mountains of cash and nobody worthy enough to spend it on.

2. They owe their success to The Bald Fraud, Klopp and Tuchel. So they are not exactly successful because they have amazing management. They are successful because they have the best three managers in Europe right now. Once those three leave, you'll see a clusterfuck à la United, where a club is loaded with cash but has absolutely no clue how to get to their best again.

Now, keep in mind that most of the other big clubs in Europe are still in hibernate mode right now. They are not exactly thinking about competing in the CL right now so much as surviving the Covid aftermath. Once their financial wellbeing is restored, you will get a better picture about everything.

I'll end my take with this: it's great to have a strong financial muscle that allows you to get the best players in the market. It really helps to get silverware. Believe me, I'm a Madrid fan, I know. But your money means absolutely jack shit when you fail to get Mbappé and Haaland.

So what you need to do right now to guarantee that your league will stay dominant in Europe even after The Bald Fraud, Klopp and Tuchel are gone is to secure the services of those two. If you fail, there's a fair chance you won't stay at the top for long

The premise of your response is missing something.

First, even if can't get the absolute best players (only a few numbers in a generation), they can still get the rest top players to create stronger teams than their European competition. Other than Bayern, PSG, and Madrid, no club have the money and/or prestige to compete in the market for the necessary quality of squad players.

As for the second part, it's because the league is loaded and strong that the best coaches will gravitate towards it. So the loony of it being strong just because of the coaches is moot.

Warrior wrote:It depends a lot of the parameters

I'll start by saying Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool are the english clubs that i perceive as top european clubs. Arsenal and Tottenham sadly a level below, they are already in PL and get relatively disappointing results.

Juve as example. If we enter the PL give us a few years to adapt and we are contenders each season. Would be the same for Real and Bayern i think, it's not by mistake if they are historically the top club with the most titles in their respective countries. I struggle where to put Barca and Milan, currently in opposite trajectories, they have history of excellence but their current management won't convince me. Inter, Dortmund, Lyon, Porto and i guess Ajax they are smart managements with lesser budget. I would think all of the above can compete for the top 6 and european spots every year. This is what i propose if a given club enters the PL individually and remain there with the same money income as english clubs.

If you merge every european top club in PL in some sort of Super League it gets very complicated to predict what the top 10 will look like

Maybe you meant just for this season with current squads, then idk, i don't follow Premier League regularly. But i got a feeling with our terrible midfield Juve would not rank very high

pls just one thing...
how can you consider Man Utd a top European club when they've been worse than us since Sir Alex left?

actually no another thing... current Juve would be a midtable team in the PL

The Demon of Carthage wrote:Your take doesn't reflect reality in the slightest.

You seem to suggest that PL teams have reached an incredible level that it has become practically impossible to compete with them. Reality is, they really are far from being unbeatable.

The only time I felt a certain league was way ahead of everybody else was La Liga in the last decade. They had the best players, the best coaches and the CL was their playground. Not even going to mention the Sevilla Europa league.

The PL, on the other hand, still hasn't been able to reach that level for two main reasons:

1. They haven't been lucky enough to have players like Ronaldo, Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Casillas,... (and the list goes on to the horizon and beyond) in their prime competing in the same league at the same time. So they are left standing with big mountains of cash and nobody worthy enough to spend it on.

2. They owe their success to The Bald Fraud, Klopp and Tuchel. So they are not exactly successful because they have amazing management. They are successful because they have the best three managers in Europe right now. Once those three leave, you'll see a clusterfuck à la United, where a club is loaded with cash but has absolutely no clue how to get to their best again.

Now, keep in mind that most of the other big clubs in Europe are still in hibernate mode right now. They are not exactly thinking about competing in the CL right now so much as surviving the Covid aftermath. Once their financial wellbeing is restored, you will get a better picture about everything.

I'll end my take with this: it's great to have a strong financial muscle that allows you to get the best players in the market. It really helps to get silverware. Believe me, I'm a Madrid fan, I know. But your money means absolutely jack shit when you fail to get Mbappé and Haaland.

So what you need to do right now to guarantee that your league will stay dominant in Europe even after The Bald Fraud, Klopp and Tuchel are gone is to secure the services of those two. If you fail, there's a fair chance you won't stay at the top for long

i agree with this post

El Gunner wrote:

Warrior wrote:It depends a lot of the parameters

I'll start by saying Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool are the english clubs that i perceive as top european clubs. Arsenal and Tottenham sadly a level below, they are already in PL and get relatively disappointing results.

Juve as example. If we enter the PL give us a few years to adapt and we are contenders each season. Would be the same for Real and Bayern i think, it's not by mistake if they are historically the top club with the most titles in their respective countries. I struggle where to put Barca and Milan, currently in opposite trajectories, they have history of excellence but their current management won't convince me. Inter, Dortmund, Lyon, Porto and i guess Ajax they are smart managements with lesser budget. I would think all of the above can compete for the top 6 and european spots every year. This is what i propose if a given club enters the PL individually and remain there with the same money income as english clubs.

If you merge every european top club in PL in some sort of Super League it gets very complicated to predict what the top 10 will look like

Maybe you meant just for this season with current squads, then idk, i don't follow Premier League regularly. But i got a feeling with our terrible midfield Juve would not rank very high

pls just one thing...
how can you consider Man Utd a top European club when they've been worse than us since Sir Alex left?

actually no another thing... current Juve would be a midtable team in the PL

Last time you qualifed for Champions League, Obama was still US president. So yes you are mid table fodder and Man Utd is the bigger club. For your second point i already said the same thing at the end of my post. Current Juve is bad and we struggle to make top 4 in our own league.

Not sure what your problem is, in fact

sorry misread on the Juve point

we've finished higher than Man Utd 5 times to their 3 since Fergie left... And won the FA Cup 3 times as well, while they only won it once. And we've actually started beating them frequently in the league in recent years. So yea, we've been better than them, or they are at least on our level these days.

you've won nothing of note, we've been in the CL and won the Europa, sit down

You're below the likes of West Ham and Leicester nowadays

ah yes of course the FA Cup never matters when Arsenal wins it. Forgot y'all won the Europa. So i guess that equals 2 FA Cups and cancels that out.

Still finished higher than you 5 times to your 3 post-Fergie. You are very lucky we've cucked up our managerial choices post Wenger, otherwise we'd be trending upwards. You know damn well we've had the better of you in Head-to-Heads in recent times as well! Took an Odegaard brainmelt to get a win over us last week. Your team is shit, and you're at our level at maximum and you know it!

I reckon Freiburg could make top 4 in the PL. I mean there are West Ham with Moyes..