Re: The Racism Thread

[sportsczy]

I'm half Middle Eastern and became a US citizen.  That's why I brought it up as an example.  I know exactly what racism feels like both in France and the US.  Frankly, the US racism that I experienced was mostly out of ignorance and fear, not malice most times.  The way I overcome that is by showing people that they have nothing to fear from me...  the people portrayed in the news are extremists, not me or 99.9% of the people from that region.  I took it upon myself to not react and to change people's perceptions based on my behavior.  It worked for me.  I convinced almost everyone over time.

In France... that was much harder.  Unlike the US, it's absolutely not a melting pot.  You're separated and kept outside of mainstream French society.  But again, 90% of the people were fine folks.  You just had a hard ceiling in terms of what you could achieve as an immigrant.

Honestly, i just behave and view the world in a way that makes me happy and a better person.  I don't really care what other people's hangups are.  If I do notice a problem, I either avoid it or, if appropriate, try to resolve it.  I could see racism in a lot of things... but I choose not to because I'm not racist so why burden myself with the negative emotions associated with it?  Let the actual racists be miserable.  I don't need anyone's help or handouts to live my life. I prefer that you don't hate me. But if you do, that's your problem, not mine.

My issue with the movement is that it only accepts its perspective.  If you don't agree, you're tagged as racist, intolerant, etc.  This type of thinking is destructive and the dictionary definition of intolerance.  This is not how you get people to follow your cause... quite the opposite.

[sportsczy]

The 80s were very different times than the 90s, to start with. The drug craze of the 60s and 70s along with the Vietnam war had a very severe impact. The US had just recovered from a severe recession with double-digit inflation. The people in charge fought in WW2, Korea and Vietnam. So the idea was to avoid chaos or, at the very least, contain it. The US needed time to rebuild itself. The powers to be did not want society to revert back to the decade before.

The opioid crisis really took off because doctors prescribed pain medication that was highly addictive.  So people looking to get medical relief for a medical reason became addicted through no desire of their own.  That's very different than what led to the crack epidemic, which was largely self-inflicted and where people knowingly took an illegal substance, like most recreational drugs.

That doesn't mean that you shouldn't deal with both.  People should be saved.  But the causes, circumstances, and victims are entirely different.  You're comparing apples and oranges.

Also, do you really think we're helping people with opioid addiction any better?  Take a look at this:


We generally suck at helping people who fall outside of society regardless of race.

[M99]

@sportsczy Your constant use of anecdotes to prove your points do not hold water. I could come out and say "I have Palestinian friends and they 100% support everything Israel is doing" that  would not prove anything. Even if those friends of mine were real, using them to promote my ideology and views would be trademark tokenism. Your friends hating "and being offended by "woke culture" does not hold any water in this context when there are millions others black Americans like Mclewis who feel very differently.

Please don't snap at me and threaten to leave like you did last year, just pointing out an annoying trait I noticed.

[sportsczy]

@sportsczy Your constant use of anecdotes to prove your points do not hold water. I could come out and say "I have Palestinian friends and they 100% support everything Israel is doing" that  would not prove anything. Even if those friends of mine were real, using them to promote my ideology and views would be trademark tokenism. Your friends hating "and being offended by "woke culture" does not hold any water in this context when there are millions others black Americans like Mclewis who feel very differently.

Please don't snap at me and threaten to leave like you did last year, just pointing out an annoying trait I noticed.

I'm sure that a lot of Palestinians do not agree with their own politics and also do not agree with Isreal's politics.  I would dare say plenty in fact. Nothing is 100%.

I was just pointing out the "woke" movement does not represent all black Americans because I know plenty who don't support it.  They just can't articulate it as it would have dire consequences for them.  That last part is what infuriates me.

There's no debate.  It's either you agree with it or you're ostracized/cancelled.

I'm speaking out against intolerance.  Nothing else.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether I agree with it or not.  But don't tell me how I should think and demonize me if I don't fall in line.

[El Gunner]

The opioid crisis really took off because doctors prescribed pain medication that was highly addictive. So people looking to get medical relief for a medical reason became addicted through no desire of their own. That's very different than what led to the crack epidemic, which was largely self-inflicted and where people knowingly took an illegal substance, like most recreational drugs.

what a tone-deaf comment... this just screams the old misconstrued saying of "it's black people's fault!" to me

[Mamad]

I'm speaking out against intolerance.  Nothing else.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether I agree with it or not.  But don't tell me how I should think and demonize me if I don't fall in line.

spot on. that's the main problem these days. if i don't agree with someone on something i'm a monster. if i support abortion I'm a baby killer to some. if i don't support it I'm a religious fanatic who don't care about women.

This is 2021 and many people are keeping their mouth shut out of fear. we are going backwards.

[Thimmy]

I'm speaking out against intolerance.  Nothing else.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether I agree with it or not.  But don't tell me how I should think and demonize me if I don't fall in line.

spot on. that's the main problem these days. if i don't agree with someone on something i'm a monster. if i support abortion I'm a baby killer to some. if i don't support it I'm a religious fanatic who don't care about women.

This is 2021 and many people are keeping their mouth shut out of fear. we are going backwards.

That sounds mostly like GL to me. Most people I talk to on a regular basis aren't that hyperbolic and hysterical.

[El Gunner]

you're clearly not on other parts of the internet then lol^^

it's true tho, people are often way more reactionary with their views on the internet than in real life... i feel in real life there is that added but crucial dimension of physical recognition/body language which adds a lot to how we respect and interact with each other. We are more likely to find a common ground quickly in person than just quickly cancel/censor/outcast someone like we do over the internet

[El Gunner]

i understand what Sportszcy is saying... but then it also boils down to which is the more pressing issue... your inconvenience because of "intolerance" or years of deep-rooted institutional/systemic racism

[McLewis]

I'm half Middle Eastern and became a US citizen.  That's why I brought it up as an example.  I know exactly what racism feels like both in France and the US.  Frankly, the US racism that I experienced was mostly out of ignorance and fear, not malice most times.  The way I overcome that is by showing people that they have nothing to fear from me...  the people portrayed in the news are extremists, not me or 99.9% of the people from that region.  I took it upon myself to not react and to change people's perceptions based on my behavior.  It worked for me.  I convinced almost everyone over time.

In France... that was much harder.  Unlike the US, it's absolutely not a melting pot.  You're separated and kept outside of mainstream French society.  But again, 90% of the people were fine folks.  You just had a hard ceiling in terms of what you could achieve as an immigrant.

Honestly, i just behave and view the world in a way that makes me happy and a better person.  I don't really care what other people's hangups are.  If I do notice a problem, I either avoid it or, if appropriate, try to resolve it.  I could see racism in a lot of things... but I choose not to because I'm not racist so why burden myself with the negative emotions associated with it?  Let the actual racists be miserable.  I don't need anyone's help or handouts to live my life. I prefer that you don't hate me. But if you do, that's your problem, not mine.

My issue with the movement is that it only accepts its perspective.  If you don't agree, you're tagged as racist, intolerant, etc.  This type of thinking is destructive and the dictionary definition of intolerance.  This is not how you get people to follow your cause... quite the opposite.

Why is the onus on the racially abused to show the racial abusers that we aren't the threat? Do you not see a glaring problem with that power dynamic? It gives ALL of the power to the abuser and none to the abused.

The problem with not caring about other people's hangups are when they choose to confront you about them, even if you personally have nothing to do with those problems. A racist cop that doesn't like black people WILL let black people know all day long just how much they don't like us. We can't avoid their hangups. We can't ignore them. They force us to deal with those hangups by pulling us over on trumped up suspicions. By patting us down and frisking us because they just know we might be holding something illegal. So again, you live a charmed privileged life if you can just choose to avoid people and their racial hangups. I can't say the same.

It's not about "If you don't agree with us, you're racist". It's about how they disagree with us.

Take Colin Kaepernick's protest against the anthem for instance. It started out as "he disrespected the military" to "you shouldn't do that at work" to "blue lives matter". His protest was peaceful and yet it wasn't good enough for those who control the rules of peace and civility (white people). When the riots during the summer happened and property was destroyed (literally the opposite spectrum of the anthem protests) those same white arbiters of civility decried the wanton destruction and breakdown of decorum.

See where I'm going with this? It doesn't matter how this movement protests racial injustice. The people in the halls of power who can do something about it (white people) are more interested in controlling how we protest rather than focusing on why we protest. To wit, they just don't want us protesting at all. They want us to be good minorities and be glad we live in this country where we have it so good. But we want better and we criticize those who don't. And for that we are labelled intolerant, racist and radical.

[McLewis]

Bottom line, Sports and then I'm done on this subject. You want members of this movement to back down from what we demand. Our refusal to do so reads to you as intolerance. And you're right. We are intolerant of those who are going to stop us from what we want: A reckoning on racial injustice in this country.

[Nishankly]

What does that harrowing video that Sports put or the Opoid crisis have anything to do here? I come to this thread to try to understand why someone would switch pavements across the road after seeing me walking in their direction from the other side.

[McLewis]

The 80s were very different times than the 90s, to start with.  The drug craze of the 60s and 70s along with the Vietnam war had a very severe impact.  The US had just recovered from a severe recession with double-digit inflation.  The people in charge fought in WW2, Korea and Vietnam.  So the idea was to avoid chaos or, at the very least, contain it.  The US needed time to rebuild itself.  The powers to be did not want society to revert back to the decade before.

The opioid crisis really took off because doctors prescribed pain medication that was highly addictive.  So people looking to get medical relief for a medical reason became addicted through no desire of their own.  That's very different than what led to the crack epidemic, which was largely self-inflicted and where people knowingly took an illegal substance, like most recreational drugs.

That doesn't mean that you shouldn't deal with both.  People should be saved.  But the causes, circumstances, and victims are entirely different.  You're comparing apples and oranges.

Also, do you really think we're helping people with opioid addiction any better?  Take a look at this:


We generally suck at helping people who fall outside of society regardless of race.

Tell me you're not serious with this response, Sports.

The people in charge during the 60s, 70s, and 80s did not try to contain chaos, they merely chose to channel and direct it. Away way from weathly / middle class white suburbs and straight into poor black and brown neighborhoods. Then they cracked down hard on those same poor neighborhoods and called it a "War on Drugs". None of this is perception. None of this in opinion. All of it is fact. Don't believe me? Take it from a member of the Nixon Administration, John Ehrlichman:

In a 1994 interview, Mr. Ehrlichman said, “You want to know what this was really all about?” He went on:

“The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and Black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or Black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and Blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”

Full source here - https://eji.org/news/nixon-war-on-drugs-designed-to-criminalize-black-people/

Are you really going to tell me the US Government didn't intentionally flood black communities with police presence to combat a drug problem when it should've been sending medical resources to resolve it, which is exactly what is happening in the opioid crisis?

[Thimmy]

you're clearly not on other parts of the internet then lol^^

it's true tho, people are often way more reactionary with their views on the internet than in real life... i feel in real life there is that added but crucial dimension of physical recognition/body language which adds a lot to how we respect and interact with each other. We are more likely to find a common ground quickly in person than just quickly cancel/censor/outcast someone like we do over the internet

That is definitely true! I think I have seen most corners of the internet, but I try to make a distinction between how people act online and how they act in real life. Regardless, of what people actually are like outside of the internet, they might act differently when their only public identity is a keyboard and a profile image.

For example, there's a long time member on here that I used to perceive as an insightful, but always serious, straight to the point poster, and I pointed that out one day when he made a rare joke in the off-topic section. He seemed surprised, and from what I could tell by his response, he didn't seem very comfortable with that observation.

It might be a coincidence, for all I know, but he's really let his hair out since then. A lot of his posts since then are of the banter type, and it seems to me that he decided to go out of his way to change the more stale and serious persona that I'd gotten used to, into one that fits more into our forum culture. Just goes to show that people can change how they appear on the internet in a flash, unlike in real life.

[McLewis]

So if Kyle Rittenhouse was black, he wouldn't be walking free today. He wouldn't be walking at all. He'd be dead.

I am 100% sure of that. He wouldn't have gotten any leeway from the cops that night. They would've lit his ass up as soon as they saw him with that AR-15. I will absolutely, 100% die on this hill.

Being a Black man in this country is so instructive on just how easily the justice system protects White men and how easily it devours black men. That is what I got from this case.

Would Trayvon Martin have been able to walk through that protest with an AR-15 the way Rittenhouse did? No. He'd be as dead then as he is today.

That is the lesson this verdict taught every Black boy in America. It continues to teach them the very harsh lesson that this justice system was never designed to work for them the same way it works for White boys.

This is one of the clearest examples of CRT you're ever going to see.

[El Gunner]

so i haven't been following this case, but @McLewis i would ask you why are you so adamant on making this a race issue when the people Rittenhouse shot at were white?

[Warrior]

Hard to imagine a black shooter getting out alive of the same situation. Rittenhouse being acquitted is a low blow to black people because he was not gunned down by police in the first place. The verdict itself is not the problem.

[VivaStPauli]

So if Kyle Rittenhouse was black, he wouldn't be walking free today. He wouldn't be walking at all. He'd be dead.

I am 100% sure of that. He wouldn't have gotten any leeway from the cops that night. They would've lit his ass up as soon as they saw him with that AR-15. I will absolutely, 100% die on this hill.

Being a Black man in this country is so instructive on just how easily the justice system protects White men and how easily it devours black men. That is what I got from this case.

Would Trayvon Martin have been able to walk through that protest with an AR-15 the way Rittenhouse did? No. He'd be as dead then as he is today.

That is the lesson this verdict taught every Black boy in America. It continues to teach them the very harsh lesson that this justice system was never designed to work for them the same way it works for White boys.

This is one of the clearest examples of CRT you're ever going to see.

This is basically what I said to an American friend yesterday when the news hit.

[El Gunner]

@Warrior ahh i see, fair point

[Lord Awesome]

Insane how he (Rittenhouse) is labeled a hero. A real stark contrast to what happened to Jacob Blake and yeah this is basically yet another example of white privileges still running rampant from the base level to the top in America.

[Lord Awesome]

In a 1994 interview, Mr. Ehrlichman said, “You want to know what this was really all about?” He went on:

“The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and Black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or Black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and Blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”

Full source here - https://eji.org/news/nixon-war-on-drugs-designed-to-criminalize-black-people/

Are you really going to tell me the US Government didn't intentionally flood black communities with police presence to combat a drug problem when it should've been sending medical resources to resolve it, which is exactly what is happening in the opioid crisis?

Pretty much they (US Gov) did the opposite. They intentionally went full course targeting minority communities with drugs. Get Hispanics to smuggle em here, get the poor who were mainly minorities addicted to narcotics and then vilify them once they begin to fight for supply of narcotics.

[/quote]

[Found]

Insane how he (Rittenhouse) is labeled a hero. A real stark contrast to what happened to Jacob Blake and yeah this is basically yet another example of white privileges still running rampant from the base level to the top in America.

I don’t think he’s a hero but fact of the matter is he had as much right to be there as the protesters, who apparently seem to consist largely of sex offenders and domestic abusers.
Once you accept he had a right to be there, and a right to be armed with a weapon (legally despite whatever you think about it morally), then there’s no argument against him left.
He did show objectively outstanding composure, like a prime Pendu firing penaldos in top corner with each shot.

[El Gunner]

complete blast from the past compared to what we've been discussing lately, but i don't know if we've ever had this talk on GL... where do you guys stand on OJ Simpson? Did he do it?

Just finished watching the documentary series OJ: Made In America, very in depth and well done. It tries its best to be unbiased, especially recounting the case, but by the final episode you clearly see where the bias lies when they wrap things up and by most of the people who were willing to talk for the doc. Overall though, the best piece you can find on his case and story imo, the other dramatised series which is on Netflix looks so cheap lol i wouldn't waste my time with it.

As for the case, truly intriguing with so many aspects to it. I gotta say i cringed so much when Mark Fuhrman talked in real time for the doc after hearing all that racism come out of him during the case as per the tapes.

[Myesyats]

of course he did it

[Nishankly]

complete blast from the past compared to what we've been discussing lately, but i don't know if we've ever had this talk on GL... where do you guys stand on OJ Simpson? Did he do it?

Yes and who doesn't think he did it? lol including the Afro American community later, once they calmed downed? Racial reasons and at the moment of tensions are why he got away with it + fckin insane lawyers

[Nishankly]

+ Man went on to do an armed robbery, I mean come on son

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