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RealGunner wrote:

Messi sólo ha marcado en 1 de sus 11 eliminatorias perdidas en Champions pic.twitter.com/S6MtzdWiIU

— LaLigaEnNúmeros (@laligaennumeros) August 14, 2020

If i speak...

Gave a world class wide assist for Lewa's goal.

Holy shit... Why o why did i miss this game.

"UCL semi-finals will not feature Messi or Ronaldo since 2004/05"

Two things. Testament to the greatest sporting rivalry of all time. Above Federer v Nadal (lets be honest it isn't even close) to Ovi v Crosby or more.


Second, this just makes me sad and I do not know why.

and who was not playng?

Ousmane Dembele

Arquitecto wrote:"UCL semi-finals will not feature Messi or Ronaldo since 2004/05"

Two things. Testament to the greatest sporting rivalry of all time. Above Federer v Nadal (lets be honest it isn't even close) to Ovi v Crosby or more.


Second, this just makes me sad and I do not know why.

Yes mate, we are getting old, the scenery we are used to since our youth is slowly but surely disappearing

Sid the Kid is now 33 years old ffs, Ovi will turn 35 and has grey hair, but i don't worry for NHL, the current generation is soooooo enjoyable

Messi vs CR is the best rivalry in history of sports
Tennis i don't follow at all but is it not a 3-way rivalry ?

Ad meliora, cules. Onward

messi does not disappear in big games. he has goals in finals and against a bunch of top clubs.....however, there is something to be said; it seems when his team isn't the overwhelming favorite, or the odds aren't stacked in his teams favor as far as personnel, he comes up short. granted, it happens to every player when playing against a better side. but i cant for the life of me remember a top game where the opposition were favorites, or had a slightly better team and he willed his side through. i dunno maybe that comeback against psg

all that being said, this really made my day. i have the highlights on repeat. when you dont have 99 percent possession some defensive players really get exposed

alexjanosik wrote:We are probably going to get destroyed. Bayren play with an intensity we just cant match. Top sides with intensity brutally expose the stone age football we play.

As expected. We play stone age football with an old school number 10 who has repeatedly been found out when the lights shine brightest.
Modern teams have a few things in common. They press with intensity, they attack with 11 players and defend with 11 players. Without exception. Compare to us.

A modern team with Bayern's quality against us and you get the demolition. We struggle against relegation fodder and get dominated. This was completely expected.

It is not a coach issue. It is a player issue. Fix the player issue and you can play the modern game. All of a sudden you can compete. We dont even need a lot of signings.

You really have the audacity to blame Messi today, shit for brains?

danyjr wrote:Imagine having the best player in history and getting mauled like this. You couldn't make this up

Feel sorry for Messi. Hope he leaves after this match. Even Newell's Old Boys would have played better than this.

Best player lol
He is not even the best of his generation. CR is without a shadow of a doubt the best of this generation. Something unthinkable a few years back.
And I hope he leaves. We would magically become infinitely better.

alexjanosik wrote:It is not a coach issue. It is a player issue. Fix the player issue and you can play the modern game. All of a sudden you can compete. We dont even need a lot of signings.

What do you consider to be "a lot of signings"? I suppose we have ready made replacements for Messi and Busquets in Griezmann and DeJong, but surely we would still need some for Pique, Roberto, Suarez, Vidal, Rackitic, etc.

Perhaps more of a post for this thread tho: https://goallegacy.forumotion.com/t42381-what-next-for-barca

Griezmann a replacement for Messi? Come on BC. Why do you insist on using him? The mental midget is only good for Atlético. Ship him back at 50% reduced price. He is like chalk and cheese with this style of play. He will never adapt. Watching him play makes me cringe and want to bang my head against the wall. He's consistently outperformed by players half his age that came through La Masia.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

alexjanosik wrote:It is not a coach issue. It is a player issue. Fix the player issue and you can play the modern game. All of a sudden you can compete. We dont even need a lot of signings.

What do you consider to be "a lot of signings"? I suppose we have ready made replacements for Messi and Busquets in Griezmann and DeJong, but surely we would still need some for Pique, Roberto, Suarez, Vidal, Rackitic, etc.

Compare our team to Bayern's. If you go man for man, there is not a sharp difference in quality. Certainly not 8-2 level. As I have been saying for the past so many years, we have a system issue caused by 1 player. Remove that player, get a good replacement and play the modern game. As in, front foot pressing, 11 players attack and 11 players defend.

As for line up,
Mats, Alba, Lenglet, Pique/Araujo, Semedo
Roberto, FDJ and Pjanic in midfield. Puig and Vidal as backup. I really like Monchu. He can also be a good backup. Coutinho is also backup for midfield or starts depending on the opposition. Up top Fati left, Griez left and get a good striker in place of Messi. Dembele and Trincao as subs.

And relearn the Cruyff way of playing. Its going to be painful after the last few years of Messi. Its even going to look alien. But we will play much better football instead of the eyesore that we have witnessed past few years. And we wont get destroyed like we have 3 years in a row.

Well that was hard to watch lol, historically bad, quite sad. I espeically love watching Setien's face during these defeats though, he looks more lost than a 3yo who lost his mom in the shopping mall LOL~

Tactically completely out done and again didnt switch anything effective. Anyone can tell Roberto is a joke being in our starting lineup, he does take him off but it becomes worst because it was just a complete gamble since he didnt think of anything for us going forward on the right and just sticks Griezmann on the left as usual, leaving Semedo overrun completely. Semedo had a terrible game but there was just no one helping him. Busquets has been out and clearly finished by this showing. Even Rakitic have some legs to help, but even hes done as we know, so its pretty dire. Vidal's inclusion obviously trying to add physical presence to cope with Bayern but it was terrible also, sorry to say again but hes just not a fit for out style at all.

Basically Setien has overall done nothing new from Valverde's tactics after all this time, and manager to dent the confidence of the team to a new low Trying not be too harsh on him though since we all know he was never good enough for us.

Watching Coutinho scoring 2 vs us is also really sad too lol, and highlights the state of our club management.

With so many problems in our team for so long, it was no surprise that we got beat by such a good Bayern side, but 8-2? Its really really really bad lol. Just reading that Pique looks done and is happy to leave wouldnt be surprised now Messi and Suarez leaves, unless they are just staying for the money and lifestyle. I wouldnt wanna see MEssi go of course, but at a minimum we need a real top top and up to date manager who is being to completely rebuild the team in order to compete at these CL highest levels again, or even just vs Real. Doubt thats happen though.

I predict at least a couple of more years of mediocary or hopefully slow rebuilding process from us, before we are strong again, depending on who we get. Meanwhile one big sadness is to watch MEssi suffer along the way since it will be hard for him to win another trophy during this time, although Im sure he will still give us a lot if he stays.

Firenze wrote:@Barcalearning

wahahahahooooo

Barca era is finished. Closer to Leganes than the top teams in Europe.

Lol, been end of our era for like 3 years actually so no surprises, but still a hard game to watch this, historic and depressing

Firenze wrote:@Barcalearning

wahahahahooooo

Barca era is finished. Closer to Leganes than the top teams in Europe.

see you in EL in 2 years

Arquitecto wrote: we all knew the sheer disparity between these teams. I will once again reinstate I cannot remember the last time Messi was a big game player and whomever makes him out to be a victim is just plain silly given he does not drag his team to victory as Kommander does often.

Kinda contradictory don't you think? You claim there is a sheer disparity between the teams but Messi somehow gets the blame for not showing up. Last I checked, Bayern scored EIGHT. Doesn't matter if Messi shows up or not. No player, not even your almighty Kommander will "drag his team to victory", let alone perform well when you concede 8.
He's carried the team all season in nearly all big matches, the most recent one being 1 week ago against Napoli. Somehow in your mind that doesn't count though...

Regarding Messi it's actually quite simple - this vindicates him in every way. Carrying this trash of a team on his back for years. This year scoring 25 goals and 20+ assists (to MIDFIELDERS) is a ridiculous season to have on this current Barca side. He provided twenty assists, all basically to midfielders lol. He will do everything and give it his all to drag this Barcelona team as far as humanly possible. And let me be clear, no other person in history could have pushed this Barca team so far in the past few years since their downslide began.

Now let's recap the season shall we? Dembele + Suarez with season ending injuries. Griezmann being completely invisible in nearly all matches. Crisis after crisis off the pitch. A manager sacking in the middle of the season. He was also carrying an injury for about 2 months of the season pre-lockdown while Suarez and Dembele were out. But of course, people like you are shortsighted and will only judge his season based on the one match against a team where as you put it there is a "sheer disparity".
How many times did Messi even touch the ball all game? Bayern players each ran 1 kilometer more than Barca players. But let's blame Messi. This is what the hipsters do these days. They try to be contrarian to gain attention. Nothing personal against you, but I see this everywhere now.

If you can't see the fact that Messi's level hasn't dropped, but the team mentality and players around him have, then it's your problem. A problem of judgement. And it's your loss, because you probably don't even enjoy watching Messi anymore because you think he's overrated and not a big game player.

Not trying to attack you, I'm only interested in the truth and what bothers me is when people are so far from it, when it's actually pretty clear what's going on at Barca, especially for avid football fans. When you hear shallow analyses and people speaking in superlatives you generally know they are far from the truth. A deep and critical analysis of the full scope of the situation at Barca over the past few years will show you that Messi is performing beyond what is expected of him, and we all know what superhuman standards we set for him.
Granted, it's not easy to full analyse and encompass everything that has affected this club from top to bottom in recent years, but if the proper analysis is done, you will come out thinking Messi is even more superhuman than you originally thought.

danyjr wrote:

Casciavit wrote:Wouldn't agree on Setien being an idealist. The guy gave up his ideas a few weeks in. It's a classic case of a midtable coach who has nice ideas but gives them up the second pressure starts to mount at a big club. We see it all the time.

Setién is not a bad coach, but agreed he certainly wasn't made for this club at all. I don't think any Barcelona fan here expected any different. Everything about the managerial change was wrong. The fact that the board stuck with Valverde after his Roma and Liverpool blunders at the end of the season, but sacked him with 8 matches to go cause he lost a Mickey Mouse trophy in Saudi land says a lot about how clueless they are. It is borderline conspiracy theory material tbh

The thing is, the current Barcelona board WANT to hire these midtable managers so they can exercise control over them. They want "yes-men". They don't want a real manager who demands authority. This way, they can go around their backs and sell a player (like Arthur) without even discussing it with the coach. You think someone like Klopp would put up with that? Lol
It still blows my mind that you can sell a player against his will and not even tell the manager about it while you do it.
The last manager who demanded some authority was Luis Enrique, and guess what they won the champions league under him. Xavi was offered the Barca job and he himself said he won't come manage Barcelona until given full control, which he knows would never happen under this board. He even has a release clause in his new contract with Al Sadd which allows him to leave for Barca (I guess if they call early elections and a new board is appointed). Think about the implication of this. It shows the board is actively sabotaging the sporting side of the club.

alexjanosik wrote:

It is not a coach issue. It is a player issue. Fix the player issue and you can play the modern game. All of a sudden you can compete. We dont even need a lot of signings.

It is absolutely a coaching issue. You allude to intensity, yet the only energetic players we have are sitting on the bench, rotting. Dembele, Griezmann, Fati, and Puig. Who's fault is that?
FFS he played a defensive 4-4-2 hoping to contain Bayern and STILL conceded 8 goals. What idiocy. May as well have attacked them from the get-go lol....At least go down fighting with some pride.
Also, how is it not a coaching issue when against Liverpool the players were not ready for a corner kick? How can a manager fail to prepare the team to be prepared for a corner?
Then this begs the question - why do Barca keep hiring these type of managers. Well, refer to my paragraph above.

alexjanosik wrote:

Best player lol
He is not even the best of his generation. CR is without a shadow of a doubt the best of this generation. Something unthinkable a few years back.
And I hope he leaves. We would magically become infinitely better.

Completely delusional. We would not "magically" become better. There's nothing magical about it. You lose the only driving force of this shambolic team, and we'd drop below that AC Milan level. The team's level wouldn't suddenly get better if Messi left, just because you think Messi is a tactical conundrum. It's not as simple as that. Few things in life are. In fact it's the opposite. Whatever burden he causes to the shape of the team is FAR FAR outweighed by what he provides. And it would be that way in the long term too, if a proper rebuilding occurred around him.

His mere presence alone opens up SO much space for the supposed great players around him, yet they can't do jack shit, and these are the players that are gonna lead us to being great again? I think not. Look how Zlatan's presence elevated Milan in recent days. Their forwards can simply roam free now and suddenly Milan are world beaters again.

Messi's overall level hasn't dropped, the team and players and especially coaching around him have. It's clear as day. You simply have a judgement problem, and as I mentioned above, you're exhibiting the same hipster contrarian mentality. I see it everywhere nowadays. Judging everything on absolutes and speaking in superlatives does nothing to get closer to the truth.

if you come out of this with anti-Messi vision, you are completely stupid lol

Great post

Semedo had an all time bad CL performance.

Not surprised with the caricature. He thinks playing Sergi in midfield with Griezmann and 17 year old Fati starting on the wings wouldve made a positive difference. Awful poster.

Need some respeck to be put on Valverde's name. Never would have conceded 8 goals. Probably would have lost 3 to 4-0. Maybe even win La Liga.

Casciavit wrote:Semedo had an all time bad CL performance.

Not surprised with the caricature. He thinks playing Sergi in midfield with Griezmann and 17 year old Fati starting on the wings wouldve made a positive difference. Awful poster.

alex and Franchise were some of the best posters in the Barça section during its glory days. Franchise left one day never to be seen again and alex at some point started becoming obsessive towards Messi and lost the plot completely, blaming Messi for every poor performance and wanting a return to "Cryuffism". Brah, even Pep has sold out Cruyffism and here you are blowing your horn like that. Frankly, a lot of Barcelona fans who only started watching football since Pep-era Barça can have a similar mindset.

I was there when Van Gaal and Rexach played 'Cruyffism' and they ended up getting battered and finishing 3rd or 4th in La Liga consistently behind the likes of Valencia, Mallorca and Deportivo. You know what's the common denominator between then and now? Shit management.

@_LMG_10_ Excellent post!

I do not now know why people are talking about individual performances when talking about yesterday's match. Barca would have probably still lost but definitely not 8-2.
I saw a game where there was simply no proper plan, tactics to beat Bayern's press. The positioning of players when receiving defensive passes or during defence was completely clueless. On any other day this would have been 4-3 or 4-2 to Bayern. The coach simply did not have any idea what skillset players have and how to implement it on the football pitch.

1st goal - how easy was it play the pass to Perisic and acres of space behind the left back
2nd goal - out of nowhere Sergio Roberto looses the ball and Perisic is again has so much on left wing.
3rd goal - what kind of pressing or closing is that during the build up Thiago is so comfortably playing the ball in the attacking third from Barca's own half.

like this you can literally go on and on. Of course in some situations individual quality could have made it harder for Bayern create some chancess or quality of chances would have gone down. But no way a well coached team would have performed this horribly as Barca did.