sportsczy wrote:And kudos to Madrid for not being like PSG... this club honors contracts. We've had Bale, Hazard, Mariano, etc. that were basically free loaders but the club NEVER smeared the players for simply honoring their contract despite some lack of professionalism. Mbappe is not even a free loader... he is a pro, plays all the time and delivers tremendously. Yet PSG are smearing him left and right to pressure a decision.

Disgraceful.

Lol Sports, does this mean you are off the PSG bandwagon and back with RMad! If so welcome back.

Re costs, yes I believe club can afford to satisfy Mbappe, but I still feel they can play hardball with PSG. I would like them to offer 150, that’s still top of market and hardball negotiations to keep it under 200. All this in line with budgets capabilities. It’s getting beyond 200 that concerns me (that plus how do Vinicius and Mbappe play together).

And re PSG, they came into futbol throwing money like crazy, IMO breaking all sorts of financial rules, getting a chair seat of FFS at UEFA through corruption with Cerafin and insisting players fulfill their contracts. and essentially accomplishing nothing even with what was proclaimed as a dream lineup. To now force out a player who gave up a lot for career to stay with home team is extremely hypocritical!

Let's forget Mbappe for a while and talk about the new recruit Arda Guler!
Is he good ? Where will he play ? RW ? Is he just an investment to be sold later ? Will he succeed?

sportsczy wrote:

phenom wrote:Let's forget Mbappe for a while and talk about the new recruit Arda Guler!
Is he good ? Where will he play ? RW ? Is he just an investment to be sold later ? Will he succeed?

Going to be hard for him early on.   I'd loan him out for a year or two like we did Brahim.  He needs playing time.

We'll give him a chance in training and preseason in case he wows... but if he doesn't, loan spell more than likely.

Phenom, I answered your question in other thread. plan is indeed he has to impress in pre season, as a RW. This has been done before; De la Red, Granero,  Canales, Morata, Jese, Odegaard, Vinicius and Rodrygo, however in all cases, it is probably best served to loan him out. The alternative is Castilla, but that is level 3 futbol, not good for their development.

Given RW is a current issue, IMO, even with Mbappe, he has a chance. Rodrygo is not a RW and likes to drift to centre or left, Brahim is ok, but not great, Valverde is a CM playing in RW occasionally and Lucas is just a squad player. Then there is the possibility, they will play with only 2 forwards.

But that’s a lot of pressure for an 18 year old. If he is going to be on squad and spend most of his time on bench, then they are best to loan him out.

Need to see way more of the Arda Guler kid but off the bat I'll say the same thing I said when we signed Odegaard (or Kubo or Brahim or even Isco and James for that matter) I don't particularly like this breed of attacking midfielder who sits in an awkward intersection where he probably won't really be able to play as a full purpose, back and forth attacking CM, or as a penetrative winger or wide forward who can run behind defense with speed but also come in and shoot and score in bulk.

And like with Odegaard... there seems to be an early disproportionate hyping of the ceiling of the player, particularly taking into consideration, like I already mentioned, the type of player profile that the player seems to be. As I've mentioned previously in other threads in the past, I think these types of player profiles certainly can go on to be elite and quite impactful, particularly in the right systems, but in general I think modern football points more towards player profiles that are multipurpose and all encompassing based on athletic dynamism combined with technicality (e.g. Modric, Bellingham, Salah, Sane, Benzema) type of profiles. Profiles that can be more all encompassing with their heat maps and way of interacting with the game in defense, offense, player to player connections, zones of action, roles, etc.

For those who speak Spanish, here's some analysis from Marcos Lopez, who from what I've seen is someone who really knows what he's talking about when it comes to player and match analysis in general; believe Lopez worked with Luis Enrique at Roma.



He mentions that (obviously) Guler still needs to grow a lot at 18 in every department, including the technical, the physical, and the reading of the game. According to Lopez Guler takes a lot of risks which means he loses the ball often but he also doesn't win it back often either and he doesn't have the athletic dynamism or maturity as a player yet to justify playing in a midfield that is already overbooked and that would already have to make up for the lack of defensive intensity that can be expected from the Madrid forwards, not necessarily because the forwards are divas but because they'll be spent if they're expected to attack and defend with intensity every game from start to finish.

Ultimately for now, if Guler stays Lopez anticipates him playing as a right attacking midfielder cutting inside in the 433 that we can expect to be used. So the "right wing".

From my part I'll say that I would think the positional ceiling for Guler will probably be that of a center or right attacking CAM/RAM and maaaaybe some sort of ACM within the right system. Lopez echoes this in the video.

More or less the ACM, RACM, and maybe some day RCM positions shown in this graphic



He's 5 ft 9, don't see him getting any taller than 5 ft 10 if even. Isn't so one footed, uses his right foot to pass and cross without overwhelming hesitation sometimes from what I've seen. Should cultivate controlling the ball with both feet imo, don't like seeing left footed players not use their right foot to control the ball at least *hrm hrm Camavinga*.

Always typically need a player of this profile in the squad, let's see what his ceiling is, but Ceballos and Brahim will probably be his main competition if he stays, along with Rodrygo and Valverde.

I like what I see here

Lopez also mentions Brahim in the video and he mentions some things that I also noticed with Brahim despite watching him very little, he's good at playing and rotating and attacking in tight spaces in between the lines, kinda akin to Isco, things I don't see Guler ever doing as well as Brahim can necessarily, but those are all idiosyncrasies between players of overall rather similar positional profile. Those idiosyncrasies though in the case of Brahim are things that I think we need more of though. Brahim also seems to have more of an ability to try to 1 v 1 through acceleration and dribbling in short distances, in more of an attacking, "beat your man" profile than Guler.

If we're going to have peeps like Brahim or Guler as RAMs I would think it's even more valuable to have companion forwards who CAN make runs behind defense and also right back and midfielders who can also make runs around the RAMs.

sportsczy wrote:https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/37972755/kylian-mbappe-extend-psg-deal-real-madrid-await-decision-sources

"Kylian Mbappé still is not planning to extend his contract beyond June 2024 at Paris Saint-Germain despite the latest threat from president Nasser Al-Khelaifi, and he is beginning to assume he might have to leave this summer with Real Madrid as his preferred option, sources told ESPN."

The PSG link at ESPN is Julien Laurens and he is pretty well connected. HOWEVER, it will come down to whether the deal presented works for both Madrid and Mbappe. PSG have no leverage.

Told you so!

Apparently Güler has said he was told he will not be loaned out. Lots of talk that due to this signing someone will be sold and it seems as if it will be Valverde! There is also of talk about Blanco who is excelling with U21 NT. I assume there is no room for him this year with already 8 MFs, but he is going to preseason and will likely be renewed. Current contract expires Jun 24. I suspect he will be loaned out again!

Any thoughts!

I agree Sports. I guess the thinking is after Modric and Kroos depart, likely next summer, starters will be Camavinga Tchou and Bellingham with Blanca and Ceballos bench strength. Valverde after past few years will not like to be a reserve. His use this year, I think was to be alternative to RW spot along with Brahim, Rodrygo and Lucas. Güler changes that!

As we said earlier, it is probably wrong move, but both Vinicius and Rodrygo went this same route at same age and has worked out. You are right re Valverde’s value.

Raul / Castilla losing that final promotional game really hurts!

I’m impressed at how talented and how young this team is likely to turn out to be. I looked up ages and made a few assumptions about this years team and next’s year’s team

- Arrival of Mbappe, Güler staying, Valverde leaving
- departure of Mendy, Lucas, arrival of Davies
- departure of Modric, Kross, addition of Blanco
- departure of Joselu, arrival of Endick

Makes next year’s team average age 24 1/2.

6 players in lineup in their 30s (Nacho, Alaba, Courtois, Carvajal, Rudiger, Soria), otherwise average would be
Much lower

futbol_bill wrote:I agree Sports. I guess the thinking is after Modric and Kroos depart, likely next summer, starters will be Camavinga Tchou and Bellingham with Blanca and Ceballos bench strength. Valverde after past few years will not like to be a reserve. His use this year, I think was to be alternative to RW spot along with Brahim, Rodrygo and Lucas. Güler changes that!

As we said earlier, it is probably wrong move, but both Vinicius and Rodrygo went this same route at same age and has worked out. You are right re Valverde’s value.

I just read an article, I think from the UK, that Liverpool despite a decent offer for Valverde, have been told that both Club and Valverde have said he is not available nor leaving. It is said he is well established in Madrid and Spain, wife just had a baby and he is comfortable with his status at club. Makes me wonder if they are thinking of playing a 4-4-2 formation with so many midfielders!

I don’t think they need a sale to sign Mbappe! They do however need to loan or sell Vallejo, Odriozola and Lunin to have roster spot.

If the rumors of need to sell are correct, I think that is in relation to Davies, although I think that won’t be until 2024, and that would be in exchange for Mendy departing!

Camavinga at LB was never going to be a long term thing. Far too talented for that. Think his future position will be holding mid which is a position he himself has wanted to play from the start. His defensive game and agility is better than Tchouaméni's and he always drops deep to help the CBs which Tchouaméni never does.

Think the odd man out with all these midfielders will be Tchouaméni. He moves like Kroos and doesn't compensate that with even being a fraction of how goood Casemiro was defensively which puts him in limbo position wise. He could probably work as a CM but it'll depend on what the team needs in terms of profile.

Reckon we start seeing a diamond midfield but out of all our midfielders think Arda is the most suited for the CAM position if we ever employ that and if we play a 433 then ideally you'd want someone with Ceballos' profile for the third midfield position. Someone who'll always move around offering 1-2s and helping the team keep possession but imo he isn't good enough to be a starter in a CL winning team.

Carlo in his presser mentioned that he wants Camavinga to be the playmaker aka our new Modric. He absolutely can become a fantastic playmaker with all that raw potential and our left side is going to be cooking with him, Vini and Fran. Just not sold on Tchouaméni becominy a great CDM yet. Hope he proves me wrong this season because having a great CDM is essential to us winning the CL.

Carlo has said he is planning on emphasizing the youth with Modric and Kroos having reduced minutes. I’ve heard him say he sees Camavinga as LCM, Bellington at top of diamond, Tchouameni at back and either Rodrygo or Güler at RCM.  But, he has also stressed nothing is fixed, that they will be experimenting not only with formations, but with different personnel. IMO, we have no way of knowing nor if Mbappe will be here this year, but I do enjoy this battle for positions with all the talent we now have.

He even promised Ceballos, the lone man on totem pole, that he would get significant minutes! - that was before Ceballos got injured this week.

Vallejo is gone, on loan to Granada.

Odriozola closing in on La Real.

That leaves just Lunin! (and potential arrival of Mbappe).

If Mbappe does join Real, then they'll have a team that looks like a super strong contender to win the Champions League.

futbol_bill wrote:Carlo has said he is planning on emphasizing the youth with Modric and Kroos having reduced minutes. I’ve heard him say he sees Camavinga as LCM, Bellington at top of diamond, Tchouameni at back and either Rodrygo or Güler at RCM.  But, he has also stressed nothing is fixed, that they will be experimenting not only with formations, but with different personnel. IMO, we have no way of knowing nor if Mbappe will be here this year, but I do enjoy this battle for positions with all the talent we now have.

He even promised Ceballos, the lone man on totem pole, that he would get significant minutes! - that was before Ceballos got injured this week.

Rodrygo or Guler RCM

I don't know much about Guler but Rodrygo on the right side of a diamond sounds just crazy and a waste.

But I'm no Ancelotti.

I’d rather have Jude in that RCM role and rodrygo as a 10

Does that make Vini a striker then? He would just drift left all the time, how can a player like that be effective centrally?

And who is the other striker, Joselu?

I am just confused. Why would you even consider that shape when it hinders your best players and why would you shove Rodrygo and Guler somewhere they don't belong when Fede is obviously natural there.

Rumour has it that Harry Maguire is moving to West Ham. That would be a good move for him, IMO. Since he's no longer a starter player in the Man U squad.