skali wrote:On the Kaka subject: his previous club Milan is famous for remodelling AMCs as MCs as they grow older, and I see no reason why Kaka couldnt succeed in a more withdrawn role.

Players who rely on speed but have great passing vision can still excel in a withdrawn role when they lose their speed. Giggs is the most recent example of that. It makes sense to have a younger, more energic player up front, and a slower passer of the ball behind him.

The only real problem is Kaka not doing any defensive work, but it would still be ok for most of our games. Mourinho would be the first to point out that you dont need to enforce the same style for the full 90 minutes. In the Barca game which had Pepe famously dismissed our game plan was clearly to tire them out by fielding a purely defensive, intense unit with Pepe and Lass dogging them in midfield, and then introduce a fresh offensive lineup to try and deliver the knockout blow.

I think thats mostly how Kaka will be utilized, to change the team mentality and increase the offensive intensity.

The thing with Mou is that everyone needs to defend. He's asked it of CR7 and Benzema, who are the most attacking players. He is obviously going to require it of the AM. No reason Kaka can't do it... he just needs to adjust himself.

playing CM is a lot of discipline as well, kaka is still making way too many runs forward, he is supposed to stay deeper and spray the ball. He needs to adjust

Ganso wrote:SA football>Mexican football>MLS

be thankful the FMF are greedy dastards who have no interest in improving the football in our country. becuz otherwise we wud have surpassed ye by now.

Turok_TTZ wrote:

Ganso wrote:SA football>Mexican football>MLS

be thankful the FMF are greedy dastards who have no interest in improving the football in our country. becuz otherwise we wud have surpassed ye by now.

Brazil and Argentina? Come on now Turok. Mexican football lacks just about everything to develop young players with very few exceptions... there's massive corruption at every level and , frankly, complete ineptitude. It's not like you can ask or want the government to step in to fix it either because they're just as inept.

Would need a complete overhaul. Talent might be there. But it never really develops.

Sportczy / Nick, I think you guys are overreacting just a bit!!!

It's only the second practice game with several new faces. I see lots off things to be excited about. The new faces look good, the offensive talent is obviously there. They do have to improve shape, co-ordination and team chemistry, but there is time for this. I don't agree on your comments re Granero. I think he did well. He's not a starter but he can replace the starters quite capably and he's learning and improving. Albiol, I don't like him and I feel he is No. 5 in the pecking order so his time will be quite limited this year. But I didn't see him as bad as Sportczy is implying. (Keep in mind I watched the game this morning from tape).

The midfield was not up to par last night, but I feel this is as much to do with Marcelo's foolish runs and Coentrao not accustomed to the MF role. I don't feel it was Granero although any of Alonso, Sahin or Khedira would have been better.

But overall, I like what I see. I think Mou can pretty well put any 11 out there and it is a winning team. I do think this team can compete with Barcelona. I still think Mou's biggest challenge will be to play everyone sufficiently enough that they keep their game shape and feel they are an important part of team.

Against Barca, it will come down to how much of a deficit we have in the midfield Bill. We will lose the midfield battle... we just can't get pwned. With the injuries in the preseason, i don't see an improvement for us there yet. Probably a bit worse actually.

I'm not worried about any other team frankly. If it wasn't for Barca last year, we win La Liga, CL and CDR last year.

It's not good, but it's certainly not worse. None of our starters were there, no xabi, no sahin, coentrao is certainly going to look a lot better in a trivote etc...

still too early to judge, but in a way it's not such a mistake to retain Gago imo, still fr superior to Granero. barca is going to have xavi, fab and iniesta controlling there middle next season, we wont get any break.

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:It's not good, but it's certainly not worse. None of our starters were there, no xabi, no sahin, coentrao is certainly going to look a lot better in a trivote etc...

still too early to judge, but in a way it's not such a mistake to retain Gago imo, still fr superior to Granero. barca is going to have xavi, fab and iniesta controlling there middle next season, we wont get any break.

That's what i mean. If they just kick our a$$ in the midfield, they effectively cut off our forwards from our defense... no matter how talented our forwards and defenders are, they become utterly useless. We need to compete in the midfield enough so that there's enough of a link.

we can beat them with sheer intensity and providing it's a team effort. I'm still looking for us to improvement team pressure when we defend, still not good, players get drawn out of position because they chase the ball alone.

we can do some work on build up play, will never say that enough.

my worry is how benzema will fit in there against barca...

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:we can beat them with sheer intensity and providing it's a team effort. I'm still looking for us to improvement team pressure when we defend, still not good, players get drawn out of position because they chase the ball alone.

we can do some work on build up play, will never say that enough.

my worry is how benzema will fit in there against barca...

Benzema is not the problem. It's CR7 and Di Maria just completely forgetting that passing is an option too + having no Ozil in there. Remember that the only action Benzema saw in the classico in April/May was with:

Khedira-Pepe-Alonso
Di Maria-Benzema-CR7

Nobody was even trying to make him a pass. Not to mention we only had the ball 30% of the time. With Ozil and Sahin in there, things should be a lot smoother. Also, CR7 needs to make positive adjustment to his game for those matchups... so far, he goes into super-ego mode.

so what should our lineup be against barsha?

Thing is, even with that kind of support, a higuain like player that has such incredible movements might be a better option. He will always create chances providing you feed him because of the runs and openings he finds.

benzema isnt quite there yet, he does his best work being on the ball, and in the middle of the barca pressure nest, it wont be very obvious for him.

ZsG7 wrote:so what should our lineup be against barsha?

Coentrao-Ramos-Carvalho-Marcelo
Sahin-Pepe-Alonso
Di Maria-CR7-Ozil

I would replace Varane for Carvalho if Varane continues to explode. Being athletic and fast is key against Barca.

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:It's not good, but it's certainly not worse. None of our starters were there, no xabi, no sahin, coentrao is certainly going to look a lot better in a trivote etc...

still too early to judge, but in a way it's not such a mistake to retain Gago imo, still fr superior to Granero. barca is going to have xavi, fab and iniesta controlling there middle next season, we wont get any break.

Nick, I think you and I see two different players when we look at Granero and Gago. I see Granero as a developing prospect and Gago as an overated injury prone problem. Mou's interview after last night's game said none of the injuries (Sahin, Alonso, Khedira) are serious and all will be ready to go in China. I agree our midfield needs to show / develop what it can be (and is our weak point) at this point, but it's very early. We definitely have the talent there to compete with Barcelona, they jst have to develop and show us.

i would use

Coentrao-Ramos-Carvalho-Marcelo
Sahin-Pepe-Alonso
Di Maria-Higuain-CR

im not very sure how good coentrao is defensively,hopefully he wont get raped by villa like ramos

Ganso wrote:i would use

Coentrao-Ramos-Carvalho-Marcelo
Sahin-Pepe-Alonso
Di Maria-Higuain-CR

im not very sure how good coentrao is defensively,hopefully he wont get raped by villa like ramos

Forget Coentrao at RB. See the thread of my predictions. But other than that, I agree with your suggested line-up against Barca. I would put in Arbeloa at RB. I also agree with Sportczy that if varane continues to show, he could start in place of Carvalho. Also if kaka does come back to form, He could start ahead of Di Maria.

sportsczy wrote:

ZsG7 wrote:so what should our lineup be against barsha?

Coentrao-Ramos-Carvalho-Marcelo
Sahin-Pepe-Alonso
Di Maria-CR7-Ozil

I would replace Varane for Carvalho if Varane continues to explode. Being athletic and fast is key against Barca.

I dont think its offensive enough tho, we need Higgy or maybe Benzema as a CF, and özil as a sub perhaps or viceversa.

futbol_bill wrote:

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:It's not good, but it's certainly not worse. None of our starters were there, no xabi, no sahin, coentrao is certainly going to look a lot better in a trivote etc...

still too early to judge, but in a way it's not such a mistake to retain Gago imo, still fr superior to Granero. barca is going to have xavi, fab and iniesta controlling there middle next season, we wont get any break.

Nick, I think you and I see two different players when we look at Granero and Gago. I see Granero as a developing prospect and Gago as an overated injury prone problem. Mou's interview after last night's game said none of the injuries (Sahin, Alonso, Khedira) are serious and all will be ready to go in China. I agree our midfield needs to show / develop what it can be (and is our weak point) at this point, but it's very early. We definitely have the talent there to compete with Barcelona, they jst have to develop and show us.

I think we do, probably because Granero is in an embryonic phase of what a CM playmaker is supposed to be. I see good things, but a lot of bad things as well, still has no presence on the pitch, and doesnt do a good enough job of trying to touch the ball a great deal.

That's why i consider Gago as far superior, he knows the basic already, and he understands how to run a midfield. we have good players, but our depth isnt great. barca just took their depth a whole other level, adding thiago and soon cesc? very nasty. imo we keep gago

The xcx wrote:

sportsczy wrote:

ZsG7 wrote:so what should our lineup be against barsha?

Coentrao-Ramos-Carvalho-Marcelo
Sahin-Pepe-Alonso
Di Maria-CR7-Ozil

I would replace Varane for Carvalho if Varane continues to explode. Being athletic and fast is key against Barca.

I dont think its offensive enough tho, we need Higgy or maybe Benzema as a CF, and özil as a sub perhaps or viceversa.

Without a AM, a CF is useless. There's really no service from Di Maria or CR7 in these games... they go into hyper-dribble mode.

btw im not a big fan of ozil against barca...lets see how he does under this new squad,but against them the players will often be 1 X 2 or 3,and im not sure he can handle this amount of pressure.

Ganso@ ur sig :lol!:
and my lineup
------Carvalho-----Ramos
-Coentrao----Pepe-----Marcelo
---------Alonso-----Sahin---
Ozil------------------Di Maria/Kaka/CR7
----------Benz/hig/CR7

cant decide LW and ST

lol @ no Ozil.

Anyways:

Coentrao-Ramos-Pepe-Marcelo
Khedira-Sahin-Alonso
Di Maria-CR7-Ozil

against barca i think it has to be some variation of the 4-3-3 or 5-2-2-1

Using Ozil from the start against Barca won't work. Ozil is just one of the kind of players that do not wants to involve in challenges and pressure which makes him useless against a tough team like Barcelona. without pressuring Barca you hardly get a chance.

I'd go with this line up:

Casillas
Arbeloa - Ramos - Carvalho - Conterao
Sahin - Pepe - Alonso
Di Maria - Higuain - Ronaldo

If we weren't able to create enough chances then Ozil comes for Higuain. Ronaldo will be Center Forward and Ozil supporting the forwards in a free role. making him free will be effective for us and Barca will find it hard to mark him.

If we were exhausted at defending then Varance and Marcelo can come on for Carvalho and Conterao respectively.

I dont think we need Am to feed an winger or a striker, those exact jobs are for Alonso and Sahin.
And yes, Özil is kinda wasteful against barcelona imo.

Bad game for kaka