Doc wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:When I said he was winning because of how elite team I was attacked and ostracized I want compensation

You owe us big time for Mbappe so your debt has not been cleared.

I ate crow over Zidane but now I'm taking it back. I never rated him, then I rated him grudgingly, and now I'm back to never having rated him.

lol, he lost la liga faster than benitez

A quick upventus if you think Zidane deserves a contract extension, possibly a lifetime contract ffs

Luca wrote:A quick upventus if you think Zidane deserves a contract extension, possibly a lifetime contract ffs

I don't think he'll stay if he finishes the season trophyless. No manager has survived a trophyless season under Florentino's reign.

The only way for him to stay is if he wins the CL and we both know that's an impossible task. He's as good as gone.

He might win 3 in a row...

sportsczy wrote:He might win 3 in a row...

please don't jinx this, let's just keep soldering on game by game

Just a few weeks back on this very forum I read a post from a Madrid fan saying Zidane is not even a half decent coach.

Now if he wins UCL for the third time running not only is he joining the super exclusive club of Paisley and Ancelotti but he is becoming the first manager to get a hattrick. Not a hattrick of goals but a hattrick of UCL titles for Pete's sake. Is it even imaginable and yet its so close to happening!!! I hope beyond hope it doesn't happen but if it does then there will surely be some banners, somewhat justifiable, saying that Zidane > Guardiola (even as coach).

messixaviesta wrote:Just a few weeks back on this very forum I read a post from a Madrid fan saying Zidane is not even a half decent coach.

Now if he wins UCL for the third time running not only is he joining the super exclusive club of Paisley and Ancelotti but he is becoming the first manager to get a hattrick. Not a hattrick of goals but a hattrick of UCL titles for Pete's sake. Is it even imaginable and yet its so close to happening!!! I hope beyond hope it doesn't happen but if it does then there will surely be some banners, somewhat justifiable, saying that Zidane > Guardiola (even as coach).

if you were any clever you would not be generalizing because Madrid fans here have different opinions.

Mr Nick09 wrote:

messixaviesta wrote:Just a few weeks back on this very forum I read a post from a Madrid fan saying Zidane is not even a half decent coach.

Now if he wins UCL for the third time running not only is he joining the super exclusive club of Paisley and Ancelotti but he is becoming the first manager to get a hattrick. Not a hattrick of goals but a hattrick of UCL titles for Pete's sake. Is it even imaginable and yet its so close to happening!!! I hope beyond hope it doesn't happen but if it does then there will surely be some banners, somewhat justifiable, saying that Zidane > Guardiola (even as coach).

if you were any clever you would not be generalizing because Madrid fans here have different opinions.

I did not generalize, just referred to an interesting incident. Anyway I'll never again try to talk to someone as "clever" as you.

messixaviesta wrote:Just a few weeks back on this very forum I read a post from a Madrid fan saying Zidane is not even a half decent coach.

Yes, he's not. I can promise you one thing; the striking majority of the Madrid fans on GL don't rate Z at all and have come to the conclusion (a long time ago) that he's not so great tactically and that a huge chunk of his success stems mainly from the individual brilliance of his players and his great man management skills.

The only way for him to redeem himself from the horrendous season he's had with Madrid this year is if he wins the CL. If he doesn't, he shouldn't act surprised when he gets the sack.

The Demon of Carthage wrote:

messixaviesta wrote:Just a few weeks back on this very forum I read a post from a Madrid fan saying Zidane is not even a half decent coach.

Yes, he's not. I can promise you one thing; the striking majority of the Madrid fans on GL don't rate Z at all and have come to the conclusion (a long time ago) that he's not so great tactically and that a huge chunk of his success stems mainly from the individual brilliance of his players and his great man management skills.

The only way for him to redeem himself from the horrendous season he's had with Madrid this year is if he wins the CL. If he doesn't, he shouldn't act surprised when he gets the sack.

What you say might be true but just consider this for a moment. A manager wins three UCLs in a row. Still he is not a great manager. How the hell is that even fathomable???

messixaviesta wrote:

The Demon of Carthage wrote:

messixaviesta wrote:Just a few weeks back on this very forum I read a post from a Madrid fan saying Zidane is not even a half decent coach.

Yes, he's not. I can promise you one thing; the striking majority of the Madrid fans on GL don't rate Z at all and have come to the conclusion (a long time ago) that he's not so great tactically and that a huge chunk of his success stems mainly from the individual brilliance of his players and his great man management skills.

The only way for him to redeem himself from the horrendous season he's had with Madrid this year is if he wins the CL. If he doesn't, he shouldn't act surprised when he gets the sack.

What you say might be true but just consider this for a moment. A manager wins three UCLs in a row. Still he is not a great manager. How the hell is that even fathomable???

Well, first, he still hasn't won his third CL yet, so maybe we should avoid giving him credit for trophies he hasn't won yet.

Second, trophies alone don't tell the whole story. Enrique ( Luis freaking Enrique, is a treble-winning manager. That alone should tell you that sometimes when a team is stacked with some of the best players of this generation, a manager could win many trophies even if he's lacking in the tactical department.

messixaviesta wrote:

The Demon of Carthage wrote:

messixaviesta wrote:Just a few weeks back on this very forum I read a post from a Madrid fan saying Zidane is not even a half decent coach.

Yes, he's not. I can promise you one thing; the striking majority of the Madrid fans on GL don't rate Z at all and have come to the conclusion (a long time ago) that he's not so great tactically and that a huge chunk of his success stems mainly from the individual brilliance of his players and his great man management skills.

The only way for him to redeem himself from the horrendous season he's had with Madrid this year is if he wins the CL. If he doesn't, he shouldn't act surprised when he gets the sack.

What you say might be true but just consider this for a moment. A manager wins three UCLs in a row. Still he is not a great manager. How the hell is that even fathomable???

I don't think you can generalize the opinions of a bunch of oversmart guys on GL to an entire fanbase though.

He's obviously a great manager and it's absolute nonsense to downplay his contribution and credit it solely down to individual brilliance of players.

S wrote:

I don't think you can generalize the opinions of a bunch of oversmart guys on GL to an entire fanbase though.

He's obviously a great manager and it's absolute nonsense to downplay his contribution and credit it solely down to individual brilliance of players.

Fair enough

The Demon of Carthage wrote:

messixaviesta wrote:

The Demon of Carthage wrote:
Yes, he's not. I can promise you one thing; the striking majority of the Madrid fans on GL don't rate Z at all and have come to the conclusion (a long time ago) that he's not so great tactically and that a huge chunk of his success stems mainly from the individual brilliance of his players and his great man management skills.

The only way for him to redeem himself from the horrendous season he's had with Madrid this year is if he wins the CL. If he doesn't, he shouldn't act surprised when he gets the sack.

What you say might be true but just consider this for a moment. A manager wins three UCLs in a row. Still he is not a great manager. How the hell is that even fathomable???

Well, first, he still hasn't won his third CL yet, so maybe we should avoid giving him credit for trophies he hasn't won yet.

Second, trophies alone don't tell the whole story. Enrique ( Luis freaking Enrique, is a treble-winning manager. That alone should tell you that sometimes when a team is stacked with some of the best players of this generation, a manager could win many trophies even if he's lacking in the tactical department.

True we can take this up again after the UCL final.

I completely agree that trophies do not tell the whole story. Still over the years I have realized that people look at trophies first of all. For some time I used to say Guus Hiddink is one of the finest football managers that I have seen but his trophy haul does not quite match that of some others. Football is a game of opinions. Some would rate one coach and some another and we can argue endlessly. However at the end of the day it's results that will largely dictate how who is viewed in history.

Winning one UCL may be lucky and even a never to be top class manager can win it. e.g. Roberto Di Matteo and Avram Grant could have so easily won in 2008. Winning two is rare. How many managers can you think of in football history who have won two or more UCLs and who you don't consider great? Now imagine if a manager were to win three ... and were to do it in a row. I rest my case here.

I was one of those who agreed with Nick and DoC, but I am coming around, slowly, to be a supporter of Zidane.

First off, most of us critics have repeatedly said he is an excellent man manager, maybe the best ever in that aspect of coaching. With the egos of today’s galacticos, this is an extremely important aspect of his coaching success.

What we critics were bothered by was his lack of tactics that resulted in an extremely poor first half of the season, as well as a similiar period last season. It needs to be stated that Zidane is a new, rookie coach and is still learning his trade. He was so bad around Christmas that there was board conversations about sacking him.

But with the PSG games, we began to see that he indeed is beginning to have tactics as part of his arsenal.

He, IMO, is still not the complete coach, but he is getting better. If he does capture a third CL, then it will be hard to argue against him.

But a lot of the assessment, will depend on what changes he makes this summer, (together with Flo) and how the team performs next season. If they have another poor first half next season, you can expect the criticism once again.

Im not coming around to anything by the way, Kommander, nuff said.

that being said, his decisions making with subs has improved in the second part of the season. In the first part it was a disaster.

people are now forgetting that we lost la liga in october, we are out of the copa and our CL form goes with CR, not with Zidane. But i have seen people transferring Kommander's credit to Zidane...please

So he's already done something NO OTHER MANAGER HAS DONE in CL... and the only way to redeem himself is to be a 3-TIME CONSECUTIVE CL WINNER.

And the tactics argument is absurd.  It only comes because guys like Pep and Mourinho look to be overly clever to brand themselves as tactical geniuses...  yet they're not even registering in Europe anymore as their great tactics actually destabilizes the players at the worse times.  

Guys like Valverde and Zidane keep it simple and adjust the base tactics or with personnel...  but keep everything mostly familiar so the players don't need to worry about where they're supposed to be when they have elite competition in front of them... it's already ingrained in their minds.  The biggest focus is on their play.

I mean wow lol.

The issue Zidane has had in La Liga this year is that the veteran players partied too hard in the summer.... that simple. They weren't ready to play. No manager can tell Marcelo, Ramos and CR what to do. None of them showed up until January. Could he have benched the struggling players? Sure. But then he would have lost the team and we would have been worse off and never had a chance in CL either.

Players didn't show up hungry for work to start the season. And it's not a switch that can just turn on. It took 4 months to get themselves going.

Absorbing Zidane of any blame I see.

His blame is his loyalty to players...  not his tactics.  He doesn't throw anyone under the bus or abandon them along the way.  It's both his greatest weakness and strength.

I feel that players know his loyalty and have taken advantage of it early this season. Zidane's adjustment is to figure out the a limit for his loyalty so it doesn't absolve players of accountability.

sportsczy wrote:So he's already done something NO OTHER MANAGER HAS DONE in CL... and the only way to redeem himself is to be a 3-TIME CONSECUTIVE CL WINNER.

No need to talk in all caps, we can read you perfectly.

As for Zidane, and given the fact that he has already lost the league and the cup three months into the season, the only way for him to redeem himself is to win the last major trophy left to play for, which is the CL.

And before you come at me with the claim that you can't keep players motivated year after year after they have won everything, let me remind you that Barcelona have been winning the league almost every year for the past decade and have won as many CLs as we have in the same period and yet their desire to win is still intact.

Zidane screwed up at the beginning of the season and screwed up badly. He has to win something now because ending trophyless is a disaster for a team like Real Madrid.

So do Madrid actually look much better or is the only difference that CR is actually converting the chances that have been created for him now?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe that is the case, as I remember sports posting that Madrid was creating similar amount of chances as they were last season, they just weren't clinical.

ummm.  you realize that Barcelona haven't won CL year after year after year as you put it lol.  That's why after Pep:

The last 5 years for Barca:

Tito won La Liga in his 1 year and nothing else
Martino won none of major trophies (don't consider cups as major)
Enrique won 2 La liga and 1 CL in his 3 years
Totals = 5 years, 1 CL, 3 La Liga before this season = 4 major trophies in 5 years

Zidane has won 2 CLs, 1 La Liga in 1.5 years = 3 major trophies in 1.5 years

So i don't get your point...

Casciavit wrote:So do Madrid actually look much better or is the only difference that CR is actually converting the chances that have been created for him now?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe that is the case, as I remember sports posting that Madrid was creating similar amount of chances as they were last season, they just weren't clinical.

That's mostly it.

Marcelo, Kroos and Modric are playing better generally as well because they have more space imo.  Since we're scoring, opposing team take more risks and the midfield is opening up.  When we couldn't hit the side of the barn, we still created chances... but there was a lot more traffic as teams packed it in.  So we didn't get as much clear cut chances as we didn't have counter attack opportunities.

There's also that psychological factor of keeping lesser teams in the game and they get that extra boost of energy when they feel they can get a result against us.

In 14 games since Jan 1, Ronaldo has scored 24 goals...  that's just crazy.  Given Benzema has 9 goals total this season (despite getting a ton of chances; but he either misses or just won't shoot - it's crazy)...  he's literally carrying the entire attack on his shoulders.  Without Ronaldo scoring, we're basically the same team.

I have never seen a coach carried more than him by a single player.

You can say Messi and Barca but that wouldn't hold true at all. In all our CL wins there were different players in different moments making the difference.

Iniesta's goal in 2009 against Chelsea.
Iniesta's slalom run dribbling past the entire Arsenal team in 2010.
Complete team performance in 2010 in the final against ManU with all 3 forwards scoring one goal each and all 3 midfielders assisting.
Suarez brace against PSG in 2014.
Neymar 3 goals over 2 legs against Bayern.
Suarez and Neymar scoring against Juventus in the final and Rakitic opening the score by Iniesta assist.

Messi amost always played his part, maybe was even MOTM in most games but still wasn't the sole difference maker.

At Real what is Benzema even doing? Bale is not even on the pitch. Ronaldo is converting everything and is responsible for 95 % of the goals, the other 5 % go to Ramos. You swap Ronaldo with the next best available goalscorer (Kane?) and Madrid win absolutely 0 with Kane and Benzema upfront.

First half of the season is Zidane's true level and what Madrid will look like very soon post Ronaldo.

The fact that Real is so dominant with Benzema is testament to the rest of the team

The guy has literally been stealing a living and a place in that team for a good few seasons now

They’re basically playing 10v11 ffs