Doc... missed nothing the first 65 mins.  Sporting flooded our midfield and none of our 3 mids have the capacity to handle pressure (Modric tried but wasn't having a great game).  So you ended up having zero service from them.  BBC...  Benz and Ronaldo aren't fit and Bale was left all alone to create, which he couldn't do.  Defensively, Marcelo was pathetic and Ramos made a small mistake on the goal (mostly on Marcelo though since he got raped and Ramos wasn't able to cover well enough on that occasion).

Vasquez came on for Bale and, against a tired Sporting, his speed made the difference.  Started getting great crosses in.  Morata... same thing.  He brought in speed and energy against a tiring team and did very well.  James came on for Kroos and we actually started to break the lines in the midfield.  

Again, another big change was that Sporting took out the winger that was murdering Marcelo around the 70 min mark too. That allowed our entire defense to push up as opposed to worrying about him.

Zidane makes some really questionable decisions.

I'm really glad we're not going all out now. It's really important to start off slow and then slowly but steadily go to full gear. The most important thing for the time being is to win, regardless of whether we play good or bad.

If I'm being totally honest, I didn't like our performance, but I'm happy we got the three points. We were playing at home, and you can't afford to drop points at home.

One thing I would like to talk about is how huge of an impact the subs made tonight. In that regard, I think James and Morata should get more playing time. Z should reward those who play well with more playing time; otherwise he would just be unfair to them.

Thanks to Ronaldo and Morata for the three points; and to James for that amazing assist.

This is what I made of our game:

First half:

We started off slow like we usually do, we defended well and kept possession nicely. We created nothing though because for one Carvajal never attacked and Marcelo was on his own on the left flank so the ball never really came to our right wing and on that other side Marcelo, Kroos and whoever from the front 3 who decided to make their acquaintance tried to create triangles in order to lose their markers. I felt Sportings pressure although different from the one we faced against Celta was equally exhausting. They let us pass the ball between our CBs but the moment we came into their half they would flock the receiver of the ball with at least 3 players and the only thing our forwards could do was to pass it back to the midfielders. Up until this point i thought Kroos was having a splendid game and Marcelo closely following. Iirc Sporting had one shot after a poor pass by Ramos to Marcelo was intercepted by their winger. Apart from that some hopeful long shots that caused no problems for Kiko

Offensively for us absolutely nothinh was working. Bale's first touch felt like ball bouncing on concrete, Ronaldo was too slow to run onto balls and Benz did everything wrong. Simple crosses were hit too long or too short or to no mans land. It was like all our players caught the same bug preventing them from making an accurate pass in the final 3rd. I felt only Kroos and Marcelo came out of that half with a good offensive effort. I felt Modric was very bad with the balls bouncing off his feet, getting dispossed and making hollywood passes with the outside of his foot when it'd been better to play it simple. I felt that Sporting were there for the taking particularly on the wings and hence wanted Morata to come on at ht. Benz was clearly not fit but ZZ would never do thar. I don't know who i was kidding

Second half:

The whole disaster of a half started with some half arsed defending by Marcelo, Ramos and Modric. I mean i couod have put in better efforts than that. Those Sporting players were just bouncing the ball between them and our players were just kicking thin air. Could Kiko have done better? Hmm hard to say, I want to say yes but their player curled it nicely enough to bend round Kiko's outstretched arm so maybe no. What followed after this was the biggest ddisaster I have seen since those Levante days. Our players spearheaded by Kroos were just running round like headless chhicken hoping to get the ball by going "all in" with a slide tackle or a lunge and Sporting were just passing round that with ease. Luckily Casemiro, Varane and Carvajal kept cool heads and didn't get dragged out of position. Still Sporting were going at Marcelo and Ramos because our whole structure on that side went out the window with Kroos running were the ball was going instead of keeping his position. Sporting nearly scored a second but Carvajal managed to unsettle Bas Dost with a nudge/push just as he was about to tap it in. This was to be their last chance as we managed to intercept the rest of their attacks before they couod get a shot off. Benz was continuing to suck and now even too lazy to make runs in order to open up space for the rest of our players andlosing the ball nonchalantly when we had all players up. Ronaldo who got our only shor on target in the first half was more interested in getting freekicks than doing something to help the team. He even took a fk from an obscure angle instead of letting Kroos take it. Our players became more and more frustrated. Simple sideways pass between Benz and Marcelo was played out of bounds, cross field ball by Kroos went to the sky and Kroos decided to lash out at a Sporting player when he got fouled earning himself a yellow card. All this was going on and still the only one warming up was Lucas I remember thinking, can this bald sob just sub Morata and Lucas in already.

Then comes a double switch. I thought it was too late to mount a comeback personally but immediately Lucas and Carvajal started working their LB and had many crosses (not all successful) that we didn't do for the whole of the 65 mins beforehand. There was a sense of urgency suddenly with Carvajal taking shots, Kroos bolting towards the corner flag to take corners and Morata working those CBs like crazy. He could have turned in a beautiful cross by Modric but the keeper made a nice save and to add even more crossing ability, ZZ took out Kroos who wasn't having the best of halves and on a yellow and we started to cross more. It nearly paid off when Lucas crossed the ball but Ronaldo could only hit the post from a yard out but this didn't deter our players. We kept plugging away and we were rewarded with 2 mins to go to ft with a fk just out the box in James/Bale territory but Ronaldo took it. I thought it was going to sail over but it hit the post with Patricio's help and went it. Still instead of being content we kept going with Ramos giving encouragements to his teammates. Just as I thought the game was over and getting myself ready to post a rant on here Morata scores the winner. Ffs our fighting spirit we are reaching Capello-like territory here lol

Obviously it is easy to talk in hindsight but i felt like playing BOTH Ronaldo and Benzema was the wrong decision and effectively killed our attack. I also felt the subs came on too late but he made the right call putting both Lucas and Morata in at the same time. Hopefully we work on keeping a clean sheet. Getting slightly tired of our inability to keep cleansheets lately

Varane MOM for us imo. great great performance from the frenchman

There's no denying that we have a serious problem breaking defenses from open play, and that we rely heavily on set pieces and individual brilliance to bail us out.

I just don't think that Z is competent enough tactically to lay out a shrewd, Guardiola-esque plan where everybody knows what to do and where to stand exactly, and because of that, our performance will always be contingent on individual brilliance, set-pieces and luck.

i don't think it has anything to do with zidane laying out a plan. the sides guardiola has managed, and this side are very different in terms of personnel, and individual skill-sets. i'd go out on a limb to say, we were lacking that piece of individual brilliance prior to the last 30 minutes of the game, because when we have little space to counter, we pass the ball around, and hardly go attempt to beat defenders....only bale and marcelo tried that.....albeit unsuccessfully at times

only thing zidane can do more of from a tactical standpoint, is try and get our defense to defend better, which, considering our senior defenders have gone through years of playing this way, will be hard to do. As far as offense, once again it has nothing to do with a "guardiola" approach, ask yourself how many of our players from the front 3 to the 2 CMFs are brilliant dribbling the football? probably bale, and even with him, he needs speed and space to do it, he's hardly efficient dribbling in tight spaces....and NO, this isn't a job for isco, he is worse at holding the ball, and dribbles without sense most times

a lot of "guardiola-esque" plans have just involved certain players like messi, villa, robben, ribery et al, beating players to go for goal or make a pass...we don't have the personnel for that right now in the starting line up, i'm not sure we have that on the bench either

titosantill wrote:you saw when marcelo thought doing a trick pass deep in the area was the most sensible thing to do?

He blows past his first marker, well done. Nut megs the 2nd, lovely stuff. Decides to do the side heel flick which is way too soft of a pass particularly with men around him thus undoing all the aforementioned skill.

That is the Marcelo before March.

As for a system of play akin to Pep or, I don't know, LvG (lol). Don't think we have the personnel for that intricate passing out the back, the midfielders to control within limited spaces and forwards that can dribble and link well with each other.

Now, our defenders can pass the ball. Our midfielders are very good technical footballers and we do have 2 and a half World Class forwards (the half goes to Benzema since I am feeling to start a fire). Just, I don't think they can do exactly what a Pep run team would do. I know some would think this team can but I just don't see it.

We have a lot of fight in us so a lot of our supposed defects gets masked by a never say die attitude. Luckily, these guys can play football so it tends to work out.

titosantill wrote:i don't think it has anything to do with zidane laying out a plan. the sides guardiola has managed, and this side are very different in terms of personnel, and individual skill-sets. i'd go out on a limb to say, we were lacking that piece of individual brilliance prior to the last 30 minutes of the game, because when we have little space to counter, we pass the ball around, and hardly go attempt to beat defenders....only bale and marcelo tried that.....albeit unsuccessfully at times

only thing zidane can do more of from a tactical standpoint, is try and get our defense to defend better, which, considering our senior defenders have gone through years of playing this way, will be hard to do. As far as offense, once again it has nothing to do with a "guardiola" approach, ask yourself how many of our players from the front 3 to the 2 CMFs are brilliant dribbling the football? probably bale, and even with him, he needs speed and space to do it, he's hardly efficient dribbling in tight spaces....and NO, this isn't a job for isco, he is worse at holding the ball, and dribbles without sense most times

a lot of "guardiola-esque" plans have just involved certain players like messi, villa, robben, ribery et al, beating players to go for goal or make a pass...we don't have the personnel for that right now in the starting line up, i'm not sure we have that on the bench either

disagree. Guardiola's main weapon is his positional play and teaching his players to appreciate space. It really has nothing to do with Personels as he is again proving with Man city. He will laugh if he saw the flat midfield Zidane set up despite having some of the best midfielders to play passing game. Guardiola despite having fernandinho,silva etc as CMs strictly focuses on creating triangles despite their players being crap at it.

Guardiola has a plan with the midfield but Zidane's plan is that midfield is there to cover for fullbacks and wingers and recycle possession. Our midfielders are not given any freedom to go forward. How many times have we seen Modric,Kroos,isco or Kovacic in dangerous position near the box? Barely. At least not consistent enough to call there is threat from midfield.

Zidane's plan is give freedom to forwards, push fullbacks higher up, cross and goal. Stop the counters using the mids and CBs. Recycle the possession back to fullbacks, cross,...

It is very predictable but effective because our aerial threat in the box is by far best in the world. But when a team like Sporting which tightly marked the fullbacks and had very tall CBs our game plan was effectively nullified.

I suggest you talk about Pep's influence on City at the end of this season. His Bayern was nothing major and Carlo is showing that so far. Who knows City might get pummelled by Barca next time they meet and the hype around them would hopefully settle down abit

I didn't think we played any good but how is that even possible when the front 3 is that dreadful. No team can carry the front line when all of them have an off day. It's not surprising we started playing better when the subs came in and it just proves that the problem was the attack and it started influencing our midfield in a negative way

Still you gotta give it to Sporting. They were excellent, they were so organised out there not giving us any space to operate. Always having a back up for a back up for a player everytime we touched the ball in their half. They started with a 442 and quickly went with 451 to clog up the middle of the pitch. It was an excellent strategy if you ask me. I bet if our rivals played them they would go through hours without getting shots on target never mind scoring. The only reason we won was because we have plan b and plan c incase we need them. This game we subbed on a target man with two wingers to get crosses into the box and towards the end Ramos went forward to put another body in their penalty box. I think our comeback is a bit underrated here and if you sit back and think through it you realise how lucky we are to havr so many players with different skillsets. Not many teams can boast about that in Europe

ZZ is doing a good job so far. Ronaldo has just come back from an injury and it'll take abit of time to get his mojo back but with his work ethic i have no doubt it'll happen very soon. Benz is different in the sense that he isn't as hardworking as Ronaldo and so will need a lot more time to get up to speed with the rest of the team and that's going to be hard with Morata nibbling at his feet

Still our ability to mount comebacks is a sign of champions my friend. We have only lost twice under ZZ since he took over. Our first test is going to be away against Las Palmas. We shall see how we play then

Pep is Pep.  So ZZ hasn't lost a game in any competition since March and our criticism is that he's not Pep?

I'm sure Pep would trade in his Bundi and cup trophies last season for the CL that ZZ won with Madrid. Without Benzema and Ronaldo, with no summer signings, and with Marcelo/Ramos being in fine early season crapense.... we've been perfect in terms of results.

Are you guys insane?

sportsczy wrote:Pep is Pep.  So ZZ hasn't lost a game in any competition since March and our criticism is that he's not Pep?

I'm sure Pep would trade in his Bundi and cup trophies last season for the CL that ZZ won with Madrid.  Without Benzema and Ronaldo, with no summer signings, and with Marcelo/Ramos being in fine early season crapense....  we've been perfect in terms of results.  

Are you guys insane?

It was his choice not to buy anyone this summer. What the heck ? Until now Zidane added nothing to our game. His great results come from the fact that the team is more motivated than I've ever seen them, the guys would literally would die for him.

And? Motivating players isn't a manager's job? Besides, if the tactics were flawed, Madrid wouldn't win so regularly. It's just Serie A type managing and you guys want something more spectacular.

You really think it was his choice not to sign anyone or that he didn't see eye-to-eye with Flo on who to sign? So instead of accepting players he didn't want, he preferred to keep the guys he had.

sportsczy wrote:And? Motivating players isn't a manager's job? Besides, if the tactics were flawed, Madrid wouldn't win so regularly. It's just Serie A type managing and you guys want something more spectacular.

You really think it was his choice not to sign anyone or that he didn't see eye-to-eye with Flo on who to sign? So instead of accepting players he didn't want, he preferred to keep the guys he had.

The players being motivated has more to do with his name rather than his man management skills imo. Literally all of them grew up watching and idolizing him.

How do you know that Flo was against Z's requests ?

Because Zidane was very annoyed in answering interview questions late and after the mercato...  almost angry.  He's like a volcano in terms of personality:  Very even tempered until it just boils over and explodes.  Not a big deal.  At least Flo didn't just buy whoever he wanted as in the past.  Rumor has it that Flo wouldn't pay for the players ZZ wanted (or the clubs just wouldn't sell), but Flo was also not going to buy or sell anyone without ZZ's approval.  It's a good compromise imo.

What ZZ has implemented is very tactical, but not offensively speaking.  In Spain, most people focus on the spectacular and attacking side of tactics.  In Italy, it's about tactically being solid defensively and the attack is a secondary consideration.  Just different philosophies.

Did this by necessity.  He's a new manager still and cannot risk trying to implement a style that may lead to very poor results early on.  Real Madrid is not exactly patient with managers lol.  

The way our team occupies space when we don't have the ball is very similar to what you see in Italy, Marcelo aside.  Marcelo messes things up.  But since the rest is so solid, the team is able to compensate.

You guys have quickly forgotten how easily we were leaking chances and goals before Zidane.  Also, we're relying far less on athleticism on defense and more on team play... which you can see as we don't start falling apart defensively late in games.  In the past, we relied so much on the athleticism of our CBs that, once they started to fade due to fatigue, everything started to leak.  Not anymore.

It's not just about the personnel, Guardiola has always been very meticulous when it comes to tactics. He makes sure that everybody knows exactly what to do.

Granted at Barça, and to a lesser extent at Bayern, he had the personnel to execute his plan to perfection. But even at City, and even though he has been there for just a relatively short time, his stamp is already noticeable. Their performance against United was a masterclass in terms of positional play and discipline. He completely annihilated Mourinho tactically. And considering how City used to play under Pellegrini, and the quality of the overall squad, I say it's damn impressive.

Now, understand that I'm not hyping up this City side. I realize that's it's too early to start criticizing or praising any team. And just like everybody else, City has as many chances of rising as falling. But I'm solely talking about tactics here, and in that regard, there's no denying that Guardiola is a manager with a plan.

Z's Real Madrid on the other hand doesn't have a plan, I'm afraid. We rely heavily on set pieces and individual brilliance to get the job done. Our strikingly obvious inability to pierce through defenses from open play is a serious problem that Z, ever since he took over, still hasn't managed to fix yet. And what's even worse is that he doesn't even seem to care about it.

How did we score against Sporting? From a Ronaldo free-kick and a cross from James to Morata. Why did Z wait until the last quarter of the game to make his changes even though it was patently obvious that the team he picked was unable to break the Sporting defense?

There's one thing I'm grateful to him for, and that is the fighting spirit he instilled into the team. But as far as tactics and man management go, there are many, many questions in desperate need to be answered.

As for the "he didn't make any summer signings" excuse, well that's on him and, unless you have proof from your central intelligence agency about Flo denying him any summer signings, he takes full responsibility for it.

This is the first summer Florentino actually refrained from spending any money, and it just so happens that it coincides with Z's being in charge. From the looks of it, Z seems to be having more power than any other manager before him.

And the fact that he kept repeating during the summer that he was content with the squad he has, whether he meant it or not, whether he was pressured to say it or not, either way, he must take full responsibility for it.

you guys are joking right? how many a time was barcelona bailed out by messi just going on one of those marauding runs? remember the last time we won la liga? when pep's barcelona will just hold the ball, pass to each other, back to the goalie, then to the right back, then the left back, then back to one another, (which is what we largely do when teams seat back, except for the pass to the goalie part) until messi decides to score or assist? the only tactical part about that was holding the ball so the opponents won't score

in reference to adit's point; about midfielders not being allowed to go forward- neither kroos nor modric are nos 10s; especially modric, yes highlights may suggest something different, but his records and his play tell a different tale, he's a deep lying playmaker through and through, closer to a pirlo than an ozil. even when kroos had schweini and martinez behind him at bayern, he wasn't the kind to dribble past people and thread that final ball

another reason why they both sit deep is, we don't have the best defensive set in the world. the defense needs casemiro to help out, and casemiro needs the two CMs closer to him to help on defense and as outlets for passing. a 4 3 3 defers from the 4 2 3 1 mainly because now your aim is to clog the middle of the park. in some cases you'll have one of the midfield 3 who's a little more dynamic. we don't, maybe zidane wants to build the defensive aspect more

Offensive plan is non existent under Zidane. If one asked what is Real Madrid's offensive plan it is very difficult to answer. Set piece and crosses are still our biggest chance creating techniques. It was acceptable last season because he took over Midway into the season but to see no real improvement in this season is very disappointing.

btw kovacic does tend to go forward a bit more, but we're not really going to say he should bench kroos nor modric now are we? and don't even bring up isco, i can't remember the last good game i saw him have.

you bring up city and silva, silva is very different from kroos and modric in terms of playing style. this is someone who played as a winger at valencia (remember it was either him or di maria we were going for back when we signed di maria); played attacking mid at city, and now i guess he drops into the CM position at times. so his skillset is very different from modric and kroos. NOT saying he's the better player

the way i see it, zidane wants the front three to do much of the creative work, with regards attack in the final third. which may be a bit much to ask considering they're very brilliant when we're on the counter and they have space to run, do a backheel, do a one touch pass and finish. but as far as dribbling within tight spaces, it isn't their thing; nor is it with the midfield

oh and a coach being able to motivate players isn't something to be frowned at. maybe we should go for rafa again, who has all the tactical ideas in his coaching manual, but out of 22 players on his squad can only get 2 or 3 to feel inspired. zidane has some issues- but he hasn't even been a professional manager for up to a year. i think so far, the biggest thing is he has too much faith in some of the personnel, but that's his prerogative, he sees them during training i guess

We always create lots of chances. Us having guys that can individually drag us past the finish line when things arent going to plan is a good thing lol. It sounds a bit like being incredibly spoilt when people still complain even when we keep winning. I couldn't care less how another team circulates the ball. The way we do it seems to be working and is designed to get the best of our attackers. Others have their own styles that probably work for them. Funnily enough despite our team not playing the "Pep" way our players still have the highest individual goals, assists and team goals so to speak. Modric and Kroos get more goals and assists than Iniesta and Rakitic but hey our guys are the most defensive ones

The funny thing is that ZZ tried to play an aggressive, passing and attacking style for the first 5 weeks he joined... it was pretty, but we leaked goals and were dropping games. Everyone was calling for his head at the time as I recall

He had Kroos playing deep, Isco/James on the left and Modric on the right. He had our back 4 play a very high line and, thus, pushing our CMs closer to the forwards. When we won, it was spectacular... sure. But when we couldn't impose our will, we were getting picked off like crazy.

So ZZ became pragmatic. He saw our weaknesses and defaulted to a style that masks our weaknesses as much as humanly possible so we don't leak goals against ANYONE most of the time... but the downside is that we need more individual brilliance on the attack and we look less attractive.

It's not like he didn't try to get the best of both worlds... it didn't work ffs.

adit, to be honest, this madrid has largely been the same since mourinho (except the rafa hiccup). there are little differences here and there, in terms of formation with the attacking midfielder in one and non-existent in the latter. but overall, we have largely been a counter attacking side since 2010. even under mou, (aside from barcelona), games where the opponents were content with sitting back and defending gave us problems e.g. away at almeria in 2011, and the loss to gijon

i for one hope we can develop an aerial aspect to our game. crosses are no longer part of the game now? there are multiple ways to score than just trying to pass the ball into the net. if in times when teams sit deep, we can thread in brilliant aerial assaults, i'm happy...not one of those mid-height marcelo crosses. also if we can get guys to reach down and provide some piece of individual brilliance in tough times, i love that as well. how many times in the past have i criticized our players for not being able to grab games at the scruff of the neck when things get tough? cristiano or whoever else getting us clutch free kicks or a clutch long range shot is welcomed

once again, let's not act like there were times when pep's barcelona plan was hold the ball and at some point, give it to messi and he'll do the rest. there is no play book for "dribble 4 defenders then score or set up your teammate at minute 62:10". even spain, had a similar plan, most of villa's goals in the world cup spain won came from individual brilliance. he probably only scored maybe one tap-in. can't remember xavi or iniesta assisting him in that tournament......if he had spent most of his time playing at madrid or barcelona, he'd have been considered spain's best player hands down....imo he was the best player at euro 08, i think missing the final was a huge blow for him

ZZ has instilled a fighting spirit and team cohesion.
Tactically, i hate to admit it, he is average or below average.
And i am tired of this we do not have the personnel to to this and do that..FFs,
Guardiola has spent less than 6 months at city and we can already see his style, so the argument about Barcelona and Bayern having the players built to play tika taka, rather, play with their brains does not hold. Man city does not have any player that can edge us out man for man, except Aguero, who up until now, Guardiola admitted he wasnt a team player.

Kroos, modric, varane, ramos, benzema, marcelo, carvajal, james, isco, Bale, what else do u need to play good football?

I don't think we are the same as mourinho team. This is more like Ancelotti team except Ancelotti even though preferred wing play didn't ignore playing through the center l..our counter attacking game has been on gradual decline since the Ancelotti era and atm I don't think we are anywhere near a good counter attacking team.

Having aerial presence and playing crosses are good but having only those things as the arsenal is not right. When was the last time we saw someone making a through ball and striker finishing it in a big game? Probably years ago.

When teams adapt to our crossing game we have nothing to offer despite having some of the most talented players out there.

Silva is a poor CM. Pep even made him play adequately there because he has very defined roles for CMs and trained his players properly. The point I was making is that, despite having some of the best CMs Zidane's midfield goes flat at the slightest pressure. CMs going to wings to break the triangle and b effectively becomes side to side passing line. If pep can make fernandinho,silva,debruyne hold their structure and play a good positional play then I wonder what makes Zidane go flat with Kroos,Casemiro and Modric. All of them are natural center midfielders.

Midfielders doesn't have to be no 10 s to make effect through the middle. Kronos owned us in 2012 when he played that furthest forward midfielder role aka mediapunta.
Ozil played the static 10 for us that game and was crap. It's not just one or two players none of Kronos,Modric,Kovacic, Isco are not reaching closer to the box enough. Doesn't matter if Isco loses the ball or Kovacic makes bad final ball they just don't get enough touches near the hole.

@ sportcszy
I remember those first matches, those were the best matches under Zidane.

i don't know if i'll say kroos owned us, we lost on penalties. i always see this "player x dominated team y" thing, and in a bunch of those games, the player may have just scored a goal, or had a decent game running things in midfield. owning would be say what ronaldinho did to us. even then, if we're to go by that analogy of him owning us (i thought ribery, robben and alaba had better games), he played infront of schweini and gustavo if i'm not mistaken

him going further forward (even though i may like the decision) could be detrimental to us on the backfoot. i've seen people slam bale and cristiano for not helping out back (which i don't mind, i want my forwards up front and available), but now we want one of the midfield trio to bomb up front? if it were in his forte, i'd definitely be okay with it. heaven knows we need some creative help in the final third. but doing an isco, then losing the ball, only to see us get hit on the counter is a huge risk