Socur Toxanarosa wrote:

Harmonica wrote:

Socur Toxanarosa wrote:Chile is done without Sampaoli. The funny thing is that Argentina doesn't want him, instead they have Gerardo Martinez

AFA doesn't have enough money, all of it dissappears in some shady deals.

If the Chilean Federation could pay him, pretty sure AFA can too. But i know that meritocracy is not the main criteria with these corrupt clowns. The last time we chose a coach based on pure meritocracy was Mano Menezes in 2010 who was gone in 2012 ffs. Europe will keep winning WC's for fun.

But he probably wants more money after success with Chile. You can read almost daily how AFA is corrupt, and broke.

Argentina with Messi - bottling it against Chile.

Argentina without Messi - owning Chile with great collective pressing.

I see a pattern here which I've seen before this season at club level.

1

Argentina without Messi 5 points in 4 WCQ games with 2 goals.
Argentina with Messi 6 points in 2 WCQ games with 4 goals, including win against Chile away.

2

Both Argentina's goals came from the exact same move that Messi provides many times in a game, including in the Copa final. Gaitan who replaced Messi was the worst player on the pitch.

3

BAR 5-4 SEV, no Neymar, Messi carried to win
SEV 2-1 BAR, no Messi, loss
BAR 2-1 SEV, MSN fit, Messi with individual goal
BAR 2-0 SEV, no Suarez, Messi carried to win

4

Futbol deluded about Suarez
Futbol deluded about Neymar
Futbol deluded about Messi
Futbol deluded about Barcelona
Futbol deluded about Argentina
Futbol deluded about pressing

I think the press and drive to win the ball back will always be better for us without Messi than with Messi. Messi doesn't press as high all the time. Gaitan didn't have a good game but he DID track back a lot which helped with winning the ball back in the midfield.

However, having Messi on the field can just win you the game by himself so it is a bit of a dilemna.

Not much of a dilemma. This was easily the best Argentina performance in years. Great pressing and great counterattacking.

Glad completely neutral fans saw what I saw:

http://www.redcafe.net/threads/copa-america-2016.417787/page-18#post-19302001

http://www.redcafe.net/threads/copa-america-2016.417787/page-18#post-19302073

http://www.redcafe.net/threads/copa-america-2016.417787/page-17#post-19300455

Logic prevails as usual. Let's hope Messi injury gets worse so the poor Argies can finally bring home some silverware.

shinigami99 wrote:I think the press and drive to win the ball back will always be better for us without Messi than with Messi. Messi doesn't press as high all the time. Gaitan didn't have a good game but he DID track back a lot which helped with winning the ball back in the midfield.

However, having Messi on the field can just win you the game by himself so it is a bit of a dilemna.

Gaitan offered nothing, shows how difficult Messi's position is to play when teams have already worked out tactics against it. Di Maria had million billion miles a space in every attack, because Chile was crowding Gaitans area.

Pressing, as subject is beaten to a pulp. Pressing doesn't win games, quality wins games, so whenever players offer more overall quality, pressing like headless Suarez's is more of a problem, if he can't produce quality after it.

Comparing the final match in host Chile to group stage game in USA

ESPN: “Lionel Messi is declared fit for @Argentina's Copa América group game vs Panama on Friday.” #CA2016

Argentina and Mexico 2 best performances from the first round of group stages.

I won't count Colombia because USA is straight trash.

Yeah, Argentina and Mexico impressed most. I still like USA chance's out of group, if they start on about national pride.

Messi fit ve panama? Lol, hattrick incoming

Argentina don't really need Messi in the next matches, maybe against Venezuela. So I expect some statpadding and more MOTM trophies for Messi

Brazzers day for Panama

Chile needed refs to beat Bolivia.

Lmao Masch has dived 3 yellows already.

good thing messi aint playing, panama is only out to foul lmao

Animal goody with red.

Di marias tournament lasted almost game and half this time.

ARG 1-0 PAN HT (Panama red)

Highway robbery on Bolivia's handball. Ridiculous.

https://streamable.com/q4di



This is not a yellow! The arm was behind his back! He did everything right. FFS this copa america has had amateurish level of refereeing, organization, everything.

Not that Chile were not the team that created most chances, they were, but they didn't finish them either.

Panama actually outplayed Argentina, and some of it man down.

Messi warming up, stands go wild.

Messi on.

Messi goal.

what an assist from higgy lmao

Messi golazo.