Last I checked the best player in the world right now is of italian origin

It depends on fact that Barzagli, Chiellini, Bonucci etc look like average players if compared to past Maldini,Nesta,Cannavaro,Bergomi etc
I mean , not even Italian ppl rate them as " world class" Probably also because we are particularly demanding about it
Anyway the overall context of BCs is mediocre, so it can't be rated as a weakness . Really no NTs can say to have a wall on defence.
While , and I am back at the topc with it, the problem is about the attack.
Italy hasn't a difference maker there . And it's the reason why Italy can't compete really for Euro . Conte says Belgium is favorite for group not by chance..
So the thread takes a real problem , Italy has never had  a similar generational lack  on attack , nothing to add about it . An  Enrico Chiesa 'd look like prime Boninsegna now..
Good ol' days when you had the staffetta Mazzola - Rivera

I really don't know why you some of you (and I think I don't need to point out who) are fronting and feigning ignorance. We, as a forum, know exactly what Adit meant by World Class and yes, Italy hasn't had an undeniably World Class attacker in some time.

But I think Robes mentioned it, there seems to be a generation let down by the current crop, similar to how I saw Brasil's generation let down by the likes of Diego, Robinho and Kaka. Fortunately, this is Italy and history states that they'll probably get their Totti's and ADP's eventually.

And from all accounts, Italian NT still has a solid backline and central midfield set up.

nichabr wrote:Last I checked the best player in the world right now is of italian origin

As are Icardi and Dybala

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

nichabr wrote:Last I checked the best player in the world right now is of italian origin

As are Icardi and Dybala

Don't encourage him, next he's going to invade Ethiopia and Abessynia claiming their part of the ancient Roman Empire and then call himself Duce or some shit

Doc wrote:I really don't know why you some of you (and I think I don't need to point out who) are fronting and feigning ignorance. We, as a forum, know exactly what Adit meant by World Class and yes, Italy hasn't had an undeniably World Class attacker in some time.

But I think Robes mentioned it, there seems to be a generation let down by the current crop, similar to how I saw Brasil's generation let down by the likes of Diego, Robinho and Kaka. Fortunately, this is Italy and history states that they'll probably get their Totti's and ADP's eventually.

And from all accounts, Italian NT still has a solid backline and central midfield set up.

To be fair the next generation doesn't look particularly promising. Who is their most promising youngster in this department? Berardi? I've seen some calciofaces call him "the next Baggio" but I don't see it.

Juve has an option to buy on nearly all Italian FW prospects but still preferred to spend 40m on a 22 year old Argentine to replace Tevez. The lack of Italian trust in their own youth is a huge detriment IMO.

Balotelli could have been such a great player if his attitude and weak mentality didn't let him down.

World class means something different to each , and to me , more or less the term describes a player who can be important in almost any team in the world . And to simplify it , to actually become that you need to start games , so , players who are worthy to start in the main 11 for almost any club in the world , especially the best teams , are world class players. Take Busquets for example . He'd start and be one of the best players just about anywhere and if there are a couple of teams where for whatever reason he wouldn't , this is simply the exception to the rule. Or maybe David Villa , before he joined Barcelona from Valencia ? Would literally start anywhere in the world. World class , player . Other than this very straight forward definition , which is by all means pretty much air when you think everyone thinks what he wants , as to who would do what where , i agree with Jibers . It's just a thing , like the term tiki taka .

As for the topic . Italy's last produced such attacker , of that high level , was Totti .

The next generation of Gilardinos' , Borriellos' , Cassanos' and the like didn't quite cut it. All got very good chances to prove so . Gila went to Milan for big money and couldn't be what Shevchenko and Inzaghi were for Milan , Borriello started from Milan and the difference in comparison with a talent like Kaka next to him was very big , Cassano had everything he might have needed to be named today in this thread instead of Totti but he ruined his career . G.Rossi too many injuries sadly.

As for Di Natale and Toni , these were late bloomers , players whose peak was very impressive , but then again , they were never really equals to other players of their generation .. say , in comparison to Raul , or Shevchenko , everyone who watched football then didn't hold them as equals. Sure Toni scored a lot that one season , once upon a time , i am sure all the big clubs out there regretting the decision not to buy Toni and bench their Ibrahimovic' , Shevchenkos' , Eto' , Henrys' and Rauls' e.t.c. Toni went to Bayern when they were finally reemerging in a new cycle and wanted some immediate results and whatever 'star' impact on the club , especially after losing Ballack( Ballack ). They had Ribery and later got Robben too , and both became world class players at Bayern. Toni played next to world class players and wasn't in their league and even when he played like it , he couldn't maintain it . Di Natale took him a tad too long to start banging them left and right and besides , by the time he reached his peak , he was actually getting old for it . That said , Di Natale had many seasons were he was absolutely brilliant and he wasn't even playing with any of the big 4 . It seems to me he scored so many goals with all his capocannoniere seasons , i wouldn't be surprised if barely 4-5 players around the world scored had scored more than him during those years. He also had offers from both Roma and Juventus and rejected them because he was settled at Udine. Don't know about world class but he didn't lack in chances to play in some of the best clubs out there.

end of last season

Di Natale wrote:“I already said that if Luca Toni, Totti and I keep getting lots of goals, it means there’s something wrong! Joking aside, I can say age counts up to a certain point, but the important thing is to retain enthusiasm and not overlook any details.

Toto is a legend , but i never really thought the same about Di Natale as at the time of prime Totti being world class for example .I didn't even rate him that much when Italy won the WC in 2006 , personally speaking. Then again , my opinion changed a lot since then . At the time i thought a good decision to take Gilardino instead . LMAO .

Finally , the problem with this kind of talent , say a Totti and why , a Di Natale talent , is that people actually expect it to keep coming . People said there wouldn't be another Baggio , there was Totti and Pirlo , when he was thought of as 10. People thought there wouldn't be another Totti , there was Berardi and- Berardi people, deal with it. Great talent comes when it comes , whoever thinks he can produce it is simply deluded .

At best you can do what everyone does , produce a bunch every season and hope 2-3 talents every 10 years will become great players. That's it. As for Italy and their defenders , it's a cultural thing. Serie A enjoyed a good tackler , just like La Liga always enjoyed a good passer . Serie A had particular emphasis on strong defenses and as a result many great defenders were produced , just like Spain had cultural emphasis on the passing of the ball which allowed to be produced countless great passers over the last decades , from Guardiola to De La Pena and Baraja and Valeron level of great passer to the greatest ever , Xavi e.t.c.

Do you think they will keep producing them forever ? Fk me if i ever see another Xavi in the next 30 years from Barcelona's youth . Same for Totti .

Even Xavi , even that brilliant mofo , would have been just another of the great passers had it not been for Guardiola , like even if the talent is there it isn't enough. Inb4 he won the Euro and other things pre Guardiola.Yes. And? Would he ever reach his ultimate peak and for all these years , without someone to build everything around him so he could unleash the full range of his extend ? Nope . He'd probably have retired already , playing his last couple of years for Levante or some shit

So there you go , what i mean . Italy hasn't produced much because they were kinda lucky to have so many last time . You can't expect anyone to keep producing that level of talent consistently. Even the famed Ajax academy hasn't kept up with their huge legacy. Who knows , maybe in 5 years things could look very differently for Italy. Maybe in 10 years. It's not something we can reasonably expect though , Italy and what not. It's all cycles , they come and go , now it's the Germans and the Spaniards (example), tomorrow will be someone else.

I'll tell you one thing though , as long as Serie A remains this shitty , you won't see new Tottis and all . Even Verrati , one of the most promising Italian players, left Italy first chance . Like , from where do you think the Maldini's and Totti's and Del Piero's came , if not from the Serie A which was legitimately one of the best in the world. Compared to just 10 years ago , Serie A is a parody right now. Talents like Totti , to become a Totti , have played with and against great players . Now what . Berrardi scores 4 goals against Milan , that's the reality . If Berrardi scored 4 goals in a game against Milan 10 years ago , he would be the 2nd coming of Christ , let alone the next whatever. Will he ever be like Totti , who played against Nesta and the like week in week out , and trained with Cafu e.t.c , no , not if things stay like this . Because Berrardi hopes to measure himself at best against Chiellini and Barzugly .

So that's what is really happening . When Serie A becomes a great league again like it always was , then we will see the next Totti and the next ___ , e.t.c . The environment doesn't allow , currently .

I dont think any here considers Berardi a GOAT talent.I myself think he's overrated even though he's got the numbers to prove otherwise.I actually dont know how Allegri is going to fit him when he arrives in the summer because he,like Dybala is left footed and likes occupying the right hand side.
But his coach keeps praising him and thinks he can become a fine player.You know,somebody who's coached him for yrs.
Maybe if Berardi was owned by Milan or Napoli,you would be singing a different tune.
Now i know you want to let out all that saltiness loaded in you,but its ok.Maybe that will help you get some good sleep (:

Villa for Spain, Benzema for France, Mueller for Germany, RVP for Netherlands, Rooney for England, Ronaldo for Portugal, etc.

For Italy, Totti was the last one.  He's a false 9 but it counts.  2010-2011 was his last top season.

Brazil is having a similar issue btw...

It's hard to say who the next great one will be for Italy. SES was the heir apparent but he's flopped. Same for Balo. You have Berardi as the most advanced potential talent right now... but i'm not convinced with him yet.

Forgot about Di Natale. Problem is that he flopped so hard for NT strangely...

lol wtf are you on about S

I just used Berrardi as an example , and why , i very much rate Berrardi myself. Never said goat talent that's just your words so far in this thread ; neither implied anyone did. Just an example of an up and coming promising young Italian forward. Will he be a world class player ? I don't know , currently i do not think so. And coaches think and say a lot about their players. I know better than to take it for granted , or buy into it most of the time.

As for the rest , lmao what if he played for Napoli ? Napoli has lots of talent , they have Insigne for example , do you see me talking him up or? And for Milan there's been talented youngster over the years , i never talk big or hype anyone. Haven't singed the tune you speak for a young Serie A talent since Kaka tbh , i didn't even hype Pato . I was pretty grounded with SES' and i very much shit on Niang whenever possible , De Sciglio i've always called for restrain ,e.t.c.

But ye 'i would sing a different tune if it was Milan's' , or Napoli. wtf has Napoli to do with me , just because i like how they play

Ok

sportsczy wrote:Villa for Spain, Benzema for France, Mueller for Germany, RVP for Netherlands, Rooney for England, Ronaldo for Portugal, etc.

For Italy, Totti was the last one.  He's a false 9 but it counts.  2010-2011 was his last top season.

Brazil is having a similar issue btw...

It's hard to say who the next great one will be for Italy.  SES was the heir apparent but he's flopped.  Same for Balo.  You have Berardi as the most advanced potential talent right now... but i'm not convinced with him yet.

Why is Brazil having a similar issue ? At least Brazil got Neymar . Sure they haven't produced the quantity they were used to -and i agree in that sense it's somewhat similar to Italy- but comparing it all to Italy , well . Italy has no Neymar to begin with . Like Robes said , when Pavoletti seems like a good opportunity for the Euro , there's an issue .

Like i said , Serie A needs massive change . Imho they badly need to host a Euro , or a World Cup , to accelerate things , renovate and build new stadiums , improve the image of the league , get better tv deals , expand the brand in the market like the rest top leagues do.. then spend that money on some star players and let it all become it's own reality once again , only then we will see Italy come forth with the next big generation .

Right now Italy feels to me like what Germany went through some years back , when it felt like they had one Ballack to show for and nobody anywhere watched Bundesliga , say mid 00s , except in highlights listening to the news at night. The Germans worked patiently to improve though and man did it pay off . Look at the Bundesliga now , after doing all the above . 10 years after the WC they hosted and they are looking better than ever , in conjunction with the rest i mentioned . It all followed naturally . Once Serie A follows their example , we'll see the Italian Mullers' too , or the Italian Reus' and e.t.c.

As far as Italian football stays like this , nah , little to see as far as that kind of talent goes. I mean even despite their demise they got a talent like Verrati and he left first chance . New low for Italian football , never before one of the most promising Italian young players had left Serie A when big Serie A clubs wanted him . Like , can you imagine Isco signing for PSG , or Bayern , or Manchester United , when he had a chance to play for one of the big 2 in Spain ? There was Silva , but he wasn't exactly a kid like Veratti when he left Valencia and nevertheless still played for a big club in Spain for quite some years.

All in all Italian football must catch up with the times and revolutionize itself , only then we'll see the kind of great Italian talent emerge once more. Some gems will still be found here and there until then , but i very much doubt it will be anywhere near enough as it used to be.

People need to understand the late 80s and 90s was probably the highest concentration of talent in European football history. This is what happens. Nations go through cycles.

Spain have had to very good generations now, Italy have had their cycle finished, the Dutch go through this every other generation etc

Hapless_Hans wrote:

S wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:You could also ask who was their last top class defender

Dont know what you're laughing about.

They still have defenders better than most NT's.

Italy? No they don't lmao.

Brazil has the best defenders, Germany has great defenders, Spain has great defenders too, France has fantastic defenders.

This isn't Football Manager. Brazil has Thiago Silva, and if he's out they take seven goals at home. Barzagli would walk onto the starting XI on the vast majority of CL teams and hes 36 or some shit. He even played FB against City and locked down the right side of the field.
France has a bunch of potential and that's about it. Germany is in the midst of a golden age for them so yeah, everything they touch turns to gold at the moment.

You forgot to write BARZAGLI in all caps.

Simply Italy failed that generation of players born in 80's. That generation was  a washout.
Giovinco , Gilardino , Matri ( just saying first names I thought) had to be the new  Del Piero, Inzaghi or Vieri ...and instead they reached the 30 years without even noticing it. turning on and off.
It was the first generation with so poor results in Italian football , perhaps they got the pressure of having to replace the GOATs of past.
The generation of the '70s,  Buffon, Pirlo, Totti, Del Piero, Gattuso and other who carried the Italy to WC title ,  has not still heirs.
It was enough to look atV Ballon d'or award moninations, the last names for Italy were always Buffon or Pirlo (1978 and 1979(,
Generation 80's produced as players of international level  just De Rossi ( despite he never was back to levels 2006-2010) and Marchiiso .. maybe I forgot some names, but they'd surely few though.
Cassano could be a GOAT player, he HAD to be the golden player of generation 80's , he could reach the Totti and Del Piero level , if he had a brain , yet he was just a Cassano.
Gilardino had everything to reach the Vieri or Inzaghi's importance, but he dissolved in a Fiorentina 's dimension . Giuseppe Rossi was stopped because of injuries.
Basically Italy paid the generation 80's , a pneumatic vaccum , yet they were able to get the Euro final in 2012
It showed when you have a solid tradition back it, you can get good results even in poor years.
Now so we must watch the generation '90, hoping it will be better than the disappointing 80's .
Balotelli had to be the golden player of it, but he converted in fraud as Cassano for 80's..
 Insigne was really great this year , he was just obscured for a GOATiguain,  otherwise we'll talk much about Insigne , but he never played in these levels before of it so we have to wait for realizing if we talk about a future great player or not.

I dunno about all this world class talk, but what I do know is that Italy's true next phenom hasn't even been discovered yet. I think that much is clear. It won't be this current generation unfortunately.

Along with Berardi, Destro was another one that flattered to deceive.

El Sharaaway looked like he was the answer for a while but he's been slumping since 2-3 seasons ago. Balotelli still has the tools for it but he still has to fix the mental side of his game if he's going to have any true impact in top football. One can only hope.

probably totti

Hapless_Hans wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

nichabr wrote:Last I checked the best player in the world right now is of italian origin

As are Icardi and Dybala

Don't encourage him, next he's going to invade Ethiopia and Abessynia claiming their part of the ancient Roman Empire and then call himself Duce or some shit

hans

What about SApponara? He's 24 and possibly a finished product, but he seems quite good and if he happened to be late bloomer, could be world class? Haven't watched him at all. Just gathering your opinions.

Its hard to say that he could be world class, but he is definitely legit. The drive he plays with makes me think that he is ready for bigger things. He is a very direct player, faster and more mobile than traditional AMs. His play style is something in between kaka (not nearly as good of course) and most AMs.

Everything Empoli does passes through him, he looks ready for a bigger team, not sure which though.

He said when he signed for Milan that Kaka is his idol and he models his playstyle after him.