Official WOB thread.

[VendettaRed07]

lm so pissed. l'm SO PlSSED

l AM SO DONE with Wenger.

This is the most pathetic, injury ridden United ever... But good for them because we somehow manage to be even more pathetic than them. We are the biggest Joke in the league.

l can't believe how miserable supporting the team has become. l can handle not winning trophies all the time.

l can handle even a lot of 4th place trophies, or even no europe at all if it came to that.

What l CANNOT HANDLE, is the constant.. CONSTANT shame, and embarrassment we suffer in big matches. Unreal. We are so predictable and pathetic. We have no pride and let rival clubs walk ALL OVER US. And win every SlNGLE time we play them.

As a fan.. those special moments and big wins against rival teams are important. The fact that this club, and our manager seems to find it completely unimportant to show up for these is an absolute disgrace. l see no upside of Wenger still being manager.

l don't give a shite about the supposed 'stability' he brings anymore. What good is he if can't ever beat ANY CLUB, with ANY SORT OF QUALlTY... We only just manage to scrape by small clubs who don't even field fulltime footballers. That is the extent of our competence.

[silver]

But but but...it was the injuries...

We were jaded coming back from the international break....

There is no value in the transfer market...

I didn't want to kill his confidence...

We just didn't take our chances...

Our mentality was strong to score at the end...

[RealGunner]

Yep. Signed from me as well

Not everything is Arsene's fault, so won't kneejerk badly. But we will not improve under him anymore.

It's time to move on.

[Jay29]

Even if things improve this season and we somehow scrape into fourth, it's hard to see us ever going beyond that level with Wenger in charge. That's the sad reality I've come to accept this season.

We used to have such a good record in big games, but in the last few years it's just been embarrassment after embarrassment. Always losing in the same way to any remotely decent side; playing against a backline of make-shift fullbacks and kids at centre back and making it look like a competent backline.

And now the consistency against the sides below us is fading fast, too. I don't know where or when this will get better. That platform that Wenger always had to fallback on when things weren't going so well isn't there anymore. What excuses can he give? We get injuries every year, and we play the same way every year, and we make the same mistakes every year. I'm tired of it.

We couldn't beat a rubbish Spurs side. Couldn't beat this much weakened United side. Couldn't beat City when they weren't at their beat. Dropped points against Leicester and Hull. Lost to Swansea. Were embarrassed twice by Anderlecht and thoroughly humiliated in Dortmund. Dumped out of one cup by Southampton. Just about beat Palace at home and there are about three wins I can recall that were respectable.

What a season this is turning out to be. Nothing is fun anymore.

Dortmund home, West Brom away. In my mind, if we don't either of those games I'll definitely be in the Wenger Out camp. Not that it'll make much difference, what with Kroenke and Keswick so far up Wenger's arse. If Wenger ever goes, it'll be by his own power, and he won't do it in the middle of a season.

[izzy]

Even if things improve this season and we somehow scrape into fourth, it's hard to see us ever going beyond that level with Wenger in charge. That's the sad reality I've come to accept this season.

This right here is why Arsenal should move on from Wenger.

He has dragged the club and it's fans to these disgraceful "Spurs-like" expectations on what is considered an improvement. Being 4th for Arsenal is not a success. Coming 4th this year is not an improvement on a poor season, it's a poor season regardless.

It's disgraceful.

[urbaNRoots]

Time for Wenger to go was after the FA Cup unfortunately, it was a great way to go with a FA Cup trophy, leaving a good young squad behind and £100m to spend for the new manager - that moment is gone now. I said as much when Wenger signed a new contract.

[chad4401]

the only thing that always bothered me about wenger in last couple of seasons, is his lack to change things up and make the proper signings, just spend and be like everybody else

[Raptorgunner]

You guys are dreaming Clueless will never leave Arsenal. We have a clown as manager, and we will only get worse.

The fans in London must get their act together and kick wenger out.

[sportsczy]

well...  Ozil, Cazorla, Sanchez, Chambers, Giroud, Debuchy and Welbeck have all been good signings.  I think Wenger has done fine there.

His issue is that he trusts the Arsenal developed players too much.  He's also far too loyal to his longstanding players, Arsenal developed or not.  If these guys were spread around the pitch, it wouldn't be such a big deal...  but they're ALL midfielders pretty much so the ENTIRE Arsenal midfield is average.  Ramsey's surge helped mask the issues there for a while.  But since he's dropped form/struggled with injury, it's really flagrant.

So to me, Wenger needs to spend and spend big on CMs.  All of them other than Ramsey are average.... yes, even Wilshere.  Not that Wilshere is a bad player.  He's just not the needed quality.  I won't even mention Arteta and Flamini.  Offer Juve 80 million for Pogba, go after Schneiderlin, make a big offer for Khedira, etc.

When your midfield is average, you're exposed on defense and your attack looks stagnant.  Worst place to have weakness in football.

[El Gunner]

Been WengerOut for a long time.
Though today's result isn't all on him. The intensity was actually there in the first half but the players failed to take their chances.

[Twoism]

Been there for last year and a half, was in doubt a bit after FA cup victory but nothing so far this season worked out. t's probably the lowest point in football right now for me. I dread to watch my two favorite teams, one about to get relegated to Serie B and one just sliding down a slope.

No one will fire Wenger, we all know that so my only hope is a good run in FA cup like last year & crucial 4th place so he could at least leave with another trophy. I also hope he eyeing for his replacement at least 6 months prior his departure cause we all know how much Stan & Ivan know about football.

Waiting 1991 and Cart inevitable appearance in this thread

[Lex]

Never was there a better time to trash United and rack up a tennis score against them. Instead, Looney Van Gaal brings the worst United squad in a century onto our turf and walks away with all 3 points

[Lex]

Can there be a clause in the no swearing rule wherein it's temporarily disabled after every game in the Arsenal section?

[Chumlum]

So to me, Wenger needs to spend and spend big on CMs.  All of them other than Ramsey are average.... yes, even Wilshere.  Not that Wilshere is a bad player.  He's just not the needed quality.  I won't even mention Arteta and Flamini.  Offer Juve 80 million for Pogba, go after Schneiderlin, make a big offer for Khedira, etc.

When your midfield is average, you're exposed on defense and your attack looks stagnant.  Worst place to have weakness in football.

Yes. We can only hope this happens ... the upcoming summer is a big possibility to revamp the midfield. For the club in general, Wenger or otherwise.

Rosicky, Cazorla, Diaby, and Flamini are all very possible departures. Arteta would be too, but Wenger really seems to trust him--and the other squad players respect him too. Personally I am happy if Arteta stays, but I don't want him to be a regular starter any more. Eased into rotation status in terms of his match time, whose composure and experience help in the locker room and the training ground. To me that's ideal.

But anyway, if you have something like four central midfielders leaving ... well, that opens up some possibilities. I desperately want to see Arsenal bring in a couple really great (or very good+experienced) players in this area, particularly on the tactical discipline, workrate, and composure fronts.


. . . Thankfully, I had to miss the match today although I followed along online a bit. If I'm feeling masochistic later I may watch it. But it sounded awful.

I've always been much more in favor of Wenger than against him, and as a general rule in any case, I'm against kneejerk and hyperbole in whatever direction. But I concede the longtime WOBs have point here today, definitely.

[Jay29]

This is one of those odd games where you can't pin the loss solely on the manager because he actually didn't much wrong on the night. We just didn't take our chances when we got them.

But I can't help but think that we wouldn't be in that position if we had won more games and were playing with more belief. That we can certainly blame the manager for, as much as we can blame certain individuals in the team, because a confident, in form Arsenal probably puts a couple of those chances away. And it's not like the manager will actually hold his players accountable and make some changes; he very rarely does.

What really shocked me was finding out that Newcastle now have two more points than we do. Newcastle: a team with so many average players and play rubbish football have more points than we do after 12 games. This is how dire the situation is right now.

[RealGunner]

Me and my friend(liverpool fan) were just having this conversation yesterday.

Arsene is still doing the same thing he did 7 years ago. Same mistakes, same changes, same everything. That's my issue with him which is increasing with every match. How are we losing the exact same way we did 4 years ago? Why do we still have the problems we did 6 years ago regarding midfield being weak?

[1991]

Been #Wengerout since 08/09.

[Jay29]

There's no accountability at the club at any level. Wenger doesn't get put under pressure from within the club, so can make mistakes and get away with it. Likewise, the players know they can play poorly for several games yet still get picked because the manager trusts them implicitly.

Normally, if a manager of a big club only gets 17 points from 12 games (that's 17 points from a possible 36 - less than 50% of available points so far) he'd be on the verge of getting sacked. If a manager of a top club loses 5-1, 6-3 and 6-0 to rival teams in a season, he'd probably get sacked unless he somehow wins a trophy that season. If you know you can go on and not face any sort of repercussions then you'll never change.

Look at how the likes of Ramsey and Cazorla are playing right now. In most other sides, they'd be benched, but at Arsenal they get played every week. A player like Flamini gets sold or replaced at most other clubs, but at Arsenal he retains a first team role. How many years did we wait for the likes of Denilson and Bendtner to come good? How many changes to the backroom staff has Wenger made in the last decade? When's the last time our academy produced a player of genuine quality?

At least they've taken steps to shake the academy up with a new director, new scouts, new coaches and new players. If only we could take the same attitude with the first team because boy does it need it.

[Twoism]

The best course of action for Wenger, trying his best to walk out with his head held high by the end of the season, start negotiating with De Boer & Bergkamp combo. After Klopp, those are the only names I want, Pep is dreamland.

Hoping for change from Wenger at this stage is foolish, the way he answered those post match interview, you would think he freaking trolling big time.

[Raptorgunner]

There's no accountability at the club at any level. Wenger doesn't get put under pressure from within the club, so can make mistakes and get away with it. Likewise, the players know they can play poorly for several games yet still get picked because the manager trusts them implicitly.

Normally, if a manager of a big club only gets 17 points from 12 games (that's 17 points from a possible 36 - less than 50% of available points so far) he'd be on the verge of getting sacked. If a manager of a top club loses 5-1, 6-3 and 6-0 to rival teams in a season, he'd probably get sacked unless he somehow wins a trophy that season. If you know you can go on and not face any sort of repercussions then you'll never change.

Look at how the likes of Ramsey and Cazorla are playing right now. In most other sides, they'd be benched, but at Arsenal they get played every week. A player like Flamini gets sold or replaced at most other clubs, but at Arsenal he retains a first team role. How many years did we wait for the likes of Denilson and Bendtner to come good? How many changes to the backroom staff has Wenger made in the last decade? When's the last time our academy produced a player of genuine quality?

At least they've taken steps to shake the academy up with a new director, new scouts, new coaches and new players. If only we could take the same attitude with the first team because boy does it need it.

well said Jay.

[RealGunner]

There's no accountability at the club at any level. Wenger doesn't get put under pressure from within the club, so can make mistakes and get away with it. Likewise, the players know they can play poorly for several games yet still get picked because the manager trusts them implicitly.

Normally, if a manager of a big club only gets 17 points from 12 games (that's 17 points from a possible 36 - less than 50% of available points so far) he'd be on the verge of getting sacked. If a manager of a top club loses 5-1, 6-3 and 6-0 to rival teams in a season, he'd probably get sacked unless he somehow wins a trophy that season. If you know you can go on and not face any sort of repercussions then you'll never change.

Look at how the likes of Ramsey and Cazorla are playing right now. In most other sides, they'd be benched, but at Arsenal they get played every week. A player like Flamini gets sold or replaced at most other clubs, but at Arsenal he retains a first team role. How many years did we wait for the likes of Denilson and Bendtner to come good? How many changes to the backroom staff has Wenger made in the last decade? When's the last time our academy produced a player of genuine quality?

At least they've taken steps to shake the academy up with a new director, new scouts, new coaches and new players. If only we could take the same attitude with the first team because boy does it need it.

The best course of action for Wenger, trying his best to walk out with his head held high by the end of the season, start negotiating with De Boer & Bergkamp combo. After Klopp, those are the only names I want, Pep is dreamland.

Hoping for change from Wenger at this stage is foolish, the way he answered those post match interview, you would think he freaking trolling big time.

Agreed with both.

[djoe26]

Alot of things has changed in football with time but Wenger hasnt. He is too stubborn to adress faults in this current Arsenal team and thats why we are losing.

[Art Morte]

Time for Wenger to go was after the FA Cup unfortunately, it was a great way to go with a FA Cup trophy, leaving a good young squad behind and £100m to spend for the new manager - that moment is gone now. I said as much when Wenger signed a new contract.

the only thing that always bothered me about wenger in last couple of seasons, is his lack to change things up and make the proper signings, just spend and be like everybody else

well...  Ozil, Cazorla, Sanchez, Chambers, Giroud, Debuchy and Welbeck have all been good signings.  I think Wenger has done fine there.

His issue is that he trusts the Arsenal developed players too much.  He's also far too loyal to his longstanding players, Arsenal developed or not.  If these guys were spread around the pitch, it wouldn't be such a big deal...  but they're ALL midfielders pretty much so the ENTIRE Arsenal midfield is average.  Ramsey's surge helped mask the issues there for a while.  But since he's dropped form/struggled with injury, it's really flagrant.

What Sportsczy said. Transfers have actually been Wenger's forte. In the last two summers' you've signed Özil from Madrid and Sanchez from Barcelona. Usually players of this calibre, world-class-or-nearly-there, from the biggest clubs in the world, would only move to another with massive resources, like Chelsea, Man City, Bayern or Man United.

Secondly, Wenger rarely buys total flops. Cazorla, Podolski, Monreal, Giroud etc., sure, not world-class but not flops, either. Oxlade, Chambers, Walcott, Ramsey... Wenger is also very good at spotting potential in young players. Just look at our transfer activity under Rodgers - or how Tottenham wasted most of their Bale money - and you should easily realize how well you've done with your transfers.

Wenger's problems are about tactics, team-selection and winning mentality. He's an idealist, stubborn, doesn't want to change. I think I remember him saying it himself that he believes a good team shouldn't adjust to their opponents, ever, but force their style of football on the game and force their opponents adjust. And he's very good at it, too, but sometimes you need that bit of flexibility to actually win things. Mourinho isn't universally liked but he has a very good idea of how to win games in all circumstances. Wenger has a very good idea of how to play nice. And somehow Wenger being Mr Nice Guy reflects on his team. Arsenal lack the killer instinct that you can see in Mourinho's teams or that you could see in Ferguson's United teams.

I can well imagine Ferguson shouting at his players at half-time with his face red and nose purple that "you will f***ing go out there and win this damn game or you'll walk home!!" What I can imagine Wenger saying is "come on, lads, we can do this, play for each other and pass and move and we'll turn this around".


However, this Arsenal team has got quality and strength in depth and it wouldn't surprise me at all if Wenger turned it around and Arsenal finished comfortably in the top-4, maybe won a cup, too. The title is obviously gone already, but that's more to do with Chelsea being head and shoulders above anyone else. Wenger is a good manager, no doubt about it, and it would be a big risk for Arsenal to sack him, yet he has his limitations, too.

[urbaNRoots]

I don't know why you quoted me Art but I agree.

What irks me most is that we don't even play entertaining football anymore, a couple of years ago we wouldn't win trophies like now but we would be losing from a silly penalty, a ridiculous unstoppable goal, we would win big games - not all of them but we would win so we as fans would have some joy against our bitter rivals. Nowadays it's humiliation after humiliation. It's the predictability that takes the joy out of fans, we all know we will have the ball a lot, we all know we will be counter attacked at some point in the game, we all know someone will get injured during the game, we all know Wenger will wait until the 70-75th minute to make a sub, we all know we'll push ALL our players in attack and create 0 chances despite that and concede one more again.

Does anyone genuinely think we play sexy football? We are known to be a "passing team" but we are the shittiest "passing team" I know. Even the likes of Southampton, Everton and Swansea play smoother football than we do and I will not even mention Chelsea, City, Bayern, Real and Barcelona - it looks really easy the way they play when I watch, they don't crowd the midfield with 6 players with no movement, they actually try to score goals instead of passing around the box, they don't switch off when they lose the ball.

So even that is gone from Wenger, the sexy football - all is left is his respect from players across the world, you have to give him that... he knows how to sign big players if he has the money.

I think for our best it would be if we had an assistant manager who would do everything in tactics, game preparation, training sessions and Wenger would select the team and sign players OR far more simply - get a new manager who can sign big players aswell as be a good manager.

[sportsczy]

You can't play the style Wenger is known for if your midfield is mediocre... that's why i'm surprised that he hasn't focused there.

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