Re: Is Euro qualifying the biggest joke of a competition?

by rwo power Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:14 am

Well, I think the smaller countries deserve their matches with the big guns, too, as them causing upsets is what makes football cool. That's why the DFB-Pokal is so cool, too - who doesn't remember amateur teams who manage to topple Bundesliga clubs? IMO stuff like this is what makes football so great.

People who only want to see the top teams compete against each other most often are bandwagoners who only support these teams at the very top and those people probably don't really see what it's all about. If you'd follow a small team from the lower divisions, then you'd know how great it feels if your club actually manages to beat all odds for once and draws or even defeats a big team for once!

by mr-r34 Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:42 am

rwo power wrote:Well, I think the smaller countries deserve their matches with the big guns, too, as them causing upsets is what makes football cool. That's why the DFB-Pokal is so cool, too - who doesn't remember amateur teams who manage to topple Bundesliga clubs? IMO stuff like this is what makes football so great.

People who only want to see the top teams compete against each other most often are bandwagoners who only support these teams at the very top and those people probably don't really see what it's all about. If you'd follow a small team from the lower divisions, then you'd know how great it feels if your club actually manages to beat all odds for once and draws or even defeats a big team for once!

On point, that's what football is about as well.

by Tomwin Lannister Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:56 am

I don't care about the quality, I just hate International breaks and would happily do away with everything bar WCs and qualifiers.

by Nishankly Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:04 am

Yes qualifying for the Euroes has become a hell lot easier for the bigger teams, I agree.

But seriously what the *bleep*?
The minnows have as much right to play as the top tier teams, They have as much right to compete. This is one of the best things about Football.

Go watch Cricket ffs, They play the minnows against each other and filter them before the WC so that the big teams who have already qualified from just playing the sport dont need to play such matches. This is your sport!

Seriously next we'll have you guys asking for a separate league consisting of Real, Barca, Bayern, Chelsea, City etc because the rest of the teams and the lower divisions are worthless to you people and you need a "quality tournament with better football".

by VivaStPauli Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:16 pm

Seed them differently, though. I love that New Zealand was the only undefeated team at the WC in 2010, but at the same time... Gibraltar? Seriously?

I get rooting for an underdog, it's not like the teams I love are winning much these days (Germany aside), but there's a difference between teams with hope, like Austria, or Switzerland, and San freaking Marino.

I don't want to exclude anyone, but at least make some changes to how pots are drawn, who is seeded, etc - or just own up to wanting everyone to play, and let them all participate in knockouts without qualifiers.

by Andrew Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:18 pm

Natalie Portman wrote:Another typical ignorant, and American post by one of the worst posters in history of GL.

Who the hell are you to say teams and nations such as Faroe, Lichtenstein, etc don't deserve to play football? I know you'd love to go back to days of slavery and the rich owning the poor (they still do, but indirectly), but you can't do that in sports. Maybe in politics, but not in football. Not in my sport.

Just this past week ,Faroe beat Greece in Athens, San Marino ended a 11 year losing streak, and Lichtenstein got their first away win in years and year.

When the San Marino keeper was sliding to celebrate with his 200 fans, crying in joy. THAT'S FOOTBALL. For me , that's why I started watching the game. The pure emotions, the pure drama. I have no interest in multimillionaires walking around not caring what happens in the game (Talking about the Argentine Berbatov here)....but football is so universally loved and adored because of its rare and unique emotions and drama.

When Faroe Islands staff celebrated at Athens after FT as if they'd won the WC, crying. Would such amazing scenes happen if they were trapped in playing other small teams that wouldn't get anywhere near the coverage.. it was their most notable EVER win. That's one for the books, no one cares if CR can't statpad a penalty vs. Getafe on the weekend, because he played Armenia on the weekend.

I challenge you something. Qualifiers are useless? Big teams should be through automatically?

Germany/ Netherlands/ Spain/ Italy/ etc are all struggling in their group. WITH HALF THE GAMES PLAYED. All could easily end up in play-offs. This expansion has given European minnows a big belief and feel good side and has made mid-tier and even low-tier teams a lot more competitive. Best thing Platini has ever done. Portugal beat Argentina with the exact same score it beat Armenia. Get the point. Malta drew bulgaria away in Sofia.

The Gibraltar you made fun of, conceded less goals away to Germany, that they had done to Ireland/Poland. Who gives divine rights to those nations to be in a tournament without qualifying? Just because they have a rich history and resources? Absolute BS.

Take your capitalist idea and shove it up your arse. Keep these thoughts to yourself in THE LAND OF FREE, AND DREAMS AND EAGLES AND THAT CRAP (in US) or stick to American football with your McDonald commercials every 3 minutes.

The universal game, the most loved game in the world, FOOTBALL, treats every country and every nation the same. That's how it should be.

Great post mate.

by BusterLfc Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:23 pm

Dnmac4 wrote:Yes, Europe is weird as they have these little countries all over the place but there has to be a better way to to organize this tournament.

I'm a USA fan and some of these games make CONCACAF qualifying look like less of a joke.

well you're from usa, nothing to explain here...

by BusterLfc Wed Nov 19, 2014 1:24 pm

Natalie Portman wrote:Another typical ignorant, and American post by one of the worst posters in history of GL.

Who the hell are you to say teams and nations such as Faroe, Lichtenstein, etc don't deserve to play football? I know you'd love to go back to days of slavery and the rich owning the poor (they still do, but indirectly), but you can't do that in sports. Maybe in politics, but not in football. Not in my sport.

Just this past week ,Faroe beat Greece in Athens, San Marino ended a 11 year losing streak, and Lichtenstein got their first away win in years and year.

When the San Marino keeper was sliding to celebrate with his 200 fans, crying in joy. THAT'S FOOTBALL. For me , that's why I started watching the game. The pure emotions, the pure drama. I have no interest in multimillionaires walking around not caring what happens in the game (Talking about the Argentine Berbatov here)....but football is so universally loved and adored because of its rare and unique emotions and drama.

When Faroe Islands staff celebrated at Athens after FT as if they'd won the WC, crying. Would such amazing scenes happen if they were trapped in playing other small teams that wouldn't get anywhere near the coverage.. it was their most notable EVER win. That's one for the books, no one cares if CR can't statpad a penalty vs. Getafe on the weekend, because he played Armenia on the weekend.

I challenge you something. Qualifiers are useless? Big teams should be through automatically?

Germany/ Netherlands/ Spain/ Italy/ etc are all struggling in their group. WITH HALF THE GAMES PLAYED. All could easily end up in play-offs. This expansion has given European minnows a big belief and feel good side and has made mid-tier and even low-tier teams a lot more competitive. Best thing Platini has ever done. Portugal beat Argentina with the exact same score it beat Armenia. Get the point. Malta drew bulgaria away in Sofia.

The Gibraltar you made fun of, conceded less goals away to Germany, that they had done to Ireland/Poland. Who gives divine rights to those nations to be in a tournament without qualifying? Just because they have a rich history and resources? Absolute BS.

Take your capitalist idea and shove it up your arse. Keep these thoughts to yourself in THE LAND OF FREE, AND DREAMS AND EAGLES AND THAT CRAP (in US) or stick to American football with your McDonald commercials every 3 minutes.

The universal game, the most loved game in the world, FOOTBALL, treats every country and every nation the same. That's how it should be.

by McLewis Wed Nov 19, 2014 2:55 pm

BusterLfc wrote:
Dnmac4 wrote:Yes, Europe is weird as they have these little countries all over the place but there has to be a better way to to organize this tournament.

I'm a USA fan and some of these games make CONCACAF qualifying look like less of a joke.

well you're from usa, nothing to explain here...

That is uncalled for.

There are plenty of Americans on this forum (I will remind you that 2 of us are Admins and long-time members) who have an excellent and extensive knowledge of the sport.

Stop generalizing.

by Glory Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:03 pm

Dnmac4 wrote:Just to compare the World Cup was 32 teams and the Euros is 24.

8 less teams and 5 less continents participating. Pure insanity. Is it even an accomplishment to make the tournament?

that has more to do with the WC having fewer teams than it should actually have than the Euros having a larger group I think. Still yea 24 is a tad too much. May be something like 20 countries is fair.

by Glory Wed Nov 19, 2014 3:10 pm

Natalie Portman wrote:Another typical ignorant, and American post by one of the worst posters in history of GL.

Who the hell are you to say teams and nations such as Faroe, Lichtenstein, etc don't deserve to play football? I know you'd love to go back to days of slavery and the rich owning the poor (they still do, but indirectly), but you can't do that in sports. Maybe in politics, but not in football. Not in my sport.

Just this past week ,Faroe beat Greece in Athens, San Marino ended a 11 year losing streak, and Lichtenstein got their first away win in years and year.

When the San Marino keeper was sliding to celebrate with his 200 fans, crying in joy. THAT'S FOOTBALL. For me , that's why I started watching the game. The pure emotions, the pure drama. I have no interest in multimillionaires walking around not caring what happens in the game (Talking about the Argentine Berbatov here)....but football is so universally loved and adored because of its rare and unique emotions and drama.

When Faroe Islands staff celebrated at Athens after FT as if they'd won the WC, crying. Would such amazing scenes happen if they were trapped in playing other small teams that wouldn't get anywhere near the coverage.. it was their most notable EVER win. That's one for the books, no one cares if CR can't statpad a penalty vs. Getafe on the weekend, because he played Armenia on the weekend.

I challenge you something. Qualifiers are useless? Big teams should be through automatically?

Germany/ Netherlands/ Spain/ Italy/ etc are all struggling in their group. WITH HALF THE GAMES PLAYED. All could easily end up in play-offs. This expansion has given European minnows a big belief and feel good side and has made mid-tier and even low-tier teams a lot more competitive. Best thing Platini has ever done. Portugal beat Argentina with the exact same score it beat Armenia. Get the point. Malta drew bulgaria away in Sofia.

The Gibraltar you made fun of, conceded less goals away to Germany, that they had done to Ireland/Poland. Who gives divine rights to those nations to be in a tournament without qualifying? Just because they have a rich history and resources? Absolute BS.

Take your capitalist idea and shove it up your arse. Keep these thoughts to yourself in THE LAND OF FREE, AND DREAMS AND EAGLES AND THAT CRAP (in US) or stick to American football with your McDonald commercials every 3 minutes.

The universal game, the most loved game in the world, FOOTBALL, treats every country and every nation the same. That's how it should be.

personal remarks aside (to which I dont have anything to say Neutral

.), this is a great post. Thumbs up

by iftikhar Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:10 pm

It should have remained a 16-team competition. Two options for qualifications process:

Option #1: 53 countries (sans the host) arranged into 15 groups (8*4 & 7*3) with group winners progressing.

Option #2: Bottom 17 arranged into four groups (3*4 & 1*5) with the group winners joining top 36 (sans the host) countries.

These 40 teams arranged into 10 groups with the winners progressing and the runner-ups playing play-off to progress.

by Dante Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:23 pm

I actually really liked BC's idea .

We would watch better football in the qualifiers and the whole qualification would be more balanced . As for the smaller NTs likes San Marino , Lichtenstein , Faroe Islands , Greece e.t.c , they would fairly battle it out in their own 'league-group' .

Not only they would get more joy out of winning each other , than say , win a pathetic Greece once in a lifetime , but they would all of them have an actual meaningful road to qualification . Losing for years and years against any bigger dog out there and not even having a fully pro team to aim for the Euro , must not help the sport grow there either.

Instead , give them a fair chance . If anything , that is exactly what would it be. Imo to add on BCs idea , the winner of this particular group should qualify like any other winner , that is only right . 2nd place should battle it out with the rest 2nd placed NTs , or idk , be included in play-offs or something.

This is not so much as to get rid of them , on the contrary , this would be to give them a chance to develop and evolve , eventually reaching new levels. These NTs do not grow , they do not have any hope . Instead of bashing this idea , UEFA and Platini should give them their fair chance , not out of pity of course , but of equality . Just because they are less , it doesn't mean they don't deserve even a chance. Obviously still nobody would care , but it's not the point.

It's themselves they have to improve , for anybody to care . 6 years ago few cared to watch Bayern either and now things have changed. NTs like San Marino and Faroe Islands and what not , all these plebeans of NT lol , deserve a chance to hope , it can only lead to better days , not just for them , but for the sport in general.

In the future , when it's obvious most of them have gained a certain level , it could change again . But right now , as things stand? They will never ever have a chance. A few wins in decades even or idk what , are maybe reasons for being happy over there , but if you asked them?

They would preffer to be happy for their NT and for their football a lot more frequent than that. They would preffer stability , evolution, growth , see their NT in a comp like the EURO for a freaking change . I think BC ideas would be a way to let them show what they can do and also great initiative and means to improve.

by sportsczy Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:34 pm

Some of the current "big" countries were considered small ones not so long ago and vice versa. For example, Belgium has only qualified for 1 Euro since 1984 and that was in 2000. Poland had NEVER qualified for a Euro until 2008.

Since the competition has expanded to 24 teams, you're going to get more water-downed qualifiers. Seems fair to me.

by Dante Wed Nov 19, 2014 4:51 pm

You see though they have been making steps ever since . Greece as well were in a similar state once . All of them improved with the years after they participated at least once in a big competition . Especially Greece which i remember even the days before Euro 2004 , the growth and evolution with regards to the NT is astonishing , hugeee difference pre 2004.

Don't you think NTs like San Marino and the like deserve their chance to build something? Because if they were let on a group of their own they wouldn't stay without a win for years and years . They will qualify to the Euro too , at least 1 team in every 4 years will.

It's my opinion such a change , like BC suggested , would make these countries invest in football , actually get interested and have a meaningfull qualification proccess. A win in who remembers how many years , it may be cause for happyness , but surely , they would preffer to be able to see their NT win more often and certainly be glad to see their NT participate in the Euro , if they deserve it .

How things stand , it's just more games , no meaningful improvement . Sure some big NTs will get it easier , others not so much , all that come and go , no real change has occured here. Big stay big , small one stay small , big ones qualify the others don't . It seems fair and it is , it's just the same as always , just with more games .

BCs idea though , that would allow , possibly , big and meaningful changes. It would also allow for more entertaining qualifiers and actually fair ones. When teams like Luxemburg play the likes of Germany or France in the qualifiers , what is that?! It's unbalanced. Obviously it's not 'wrong' , but it's unbalanced.

All i would suggest , if you read BCs idea and maybe my post , is give them a chance to improve . Something tells me they would , not in a day or two , but they would in the long term . And that would be for the best , no?

by sportsczy Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:30 pm

But the mandate for the Euro requires that every country get an equal shot at making the competition. The seedings just sway group selection. After that, everyone starts on equal footing.

You guys are proposing that the the competition becomes unbalanced. I don't think UEFA can do that legally right now unless the competition mandates are changed via vote.

Not a bad idea... but one that goes against the spirit of what they're trying to do however.

by BarrileteCosmico Wed Nov 19, 2014 5:40 pm

Here is what the euro 2012 would have looked like had there been no qualifiers and teams were seeded by UEFA coefficient :

https://i.imgur.com/cJ2Wfku.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ykpa3Zg.png

Personally don't think it looks all that bad. There would be around 15ish more games but there would be a lot more saved in the qualifying process.

by Hapless_Hans Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:01 pm

BCs idea is not bad, but then I don't see why changes are needed at all, just because Dnmac thinks playing against Faroer is a joke.
Germany actually had quite some trouble against Faroer at times lol.

I have to side with Natalie here, there's nothing wrong with the 'big' nations having to play small teams.
Because I don't see why these teams 'get in the way' of big teams.
Usually it should be easy games. Sometimes there's a fun embarassment happening. The same happens in cup competitions every year, and it's great too.

I also don't share Viva's fear of Reus etc. getting injured by 'overmotivated dental assistants from Gibraltar' either.
Risk of injury is part of the job, if you make allegations like that please show me a statistc that proves professional players get overly often injured by amateurs in such games, compared to high level games. Because I don't believe it.

On the contrary, I think it's beautiful if a team like Gibraltar meets Germany and performs in a way to make them proud.

Whether or not Gibraltar specifically should have a 'national team' is another question. But if we don't grant Gibraltar the right, then we shouldn't with Wales and Scotland either.

If a 'big' NT don't want to risk their top players or add to their exhaustion, why not use the games against little teams to field NT hopefuls from clubs not in Europe, for example.

The only thing that maybe makes the current quali a 'joke' is the extension of the actual tournament finals to 24 teams - now qualifying has lost a lot of pressure, while more games have been added to the schedule in summer.

That was uncalled for, I don't see why there have to be more games at the tournament, but then we get bitchy about having to play Andorra once every year, because you know the 'workload is too heavy' ...

by sportsczy Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:23 pm

By the way... NTs love the extra games. NT schedule is lighter now and you don't have time to build much cohesion. That's why NTs who have many players on one club have a big advantage.

With more games, it's better preparation.

Clubs are the ones who play too many games... especially exhibition ones and countries with 3 cups like the UK. You also didn't have pool play in club European cups.... you went directly into 2 game direct elimination. So extra games were added there too.

by Jonathan28 Wed Nov 19, 2014 6:36 pm

Nope, it's the fine the way it is now. Every country should start off on equal footing.

by terrance511 Wed Nov 19, 2014 8:11 pm

cant they make all qualifier or int game before club season start?

they could held it for a month, team could play better chemistry game as well.

eg 2014 wc will have 3 months of qualifier on august/july from 2013 2012 2011.

by Dante Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:13 pm

sportsczy wrote:But the mandate for the Euro requires that every country get an equal shot at making the competition. The seedings just sway group selection. After that, everyone starts on equal footing.

You guys are proposing that the the competition becomes unbalanced. I don't think UEFA can do that legally right now unless the competition mandates are changed via vote.

Not a bad idea... but one that goes against the spirit of what they're trying to do however.

Unbalanced ? Uefa won't hand pick them to place them there , they will be naturaly put there by coefficient points , the worst of the worst would be put there. Theoriticaly speaking , any team could eventually drop there in that group if they would suck enough , it won't be reserved for said initial NTs forever .

This way they would still get a real chance to actually participate in a tournament , and most important of all , it would make the qualification proccess real for them. They would be playing with their equals , for an achievable goal. What happens now is a living parody for these teams and their people , they are just there for paper reasons .

I am mostly advocative of this idea because it would have allowed the sport to grow there . Maybe not in a day or a year , but in 10 , in 20 , in 30 years? Most of these clubs(edit:countries lol) would have something to show , not for any pity like you imply(?) Uefa would show them , or like a favor . I might be wrong , but i honestly don't think it's any of that. I think it would be a chance for them to 'catch up' , if you like , if they are capable .

You might say how things are now are fair enough and to be completely honest , it is fair in a theoritical sense , so yes. If they get the points needed, they will be in the Euro. But practicaly fair? As far as things staying the same , we will never see one of these teams in any future Euro. Never . That is something that should give UEFA food for thought , the gap is monumental . When teams like San Marino have to overcome obstacles such as Germany , Spain , France , Holland and many other 'football-countries' , who are decades ahead in the sport , it's not idealy fair , imo .

by El Gunner Wed Nov 19, 2014 11:31 pm

Dnmac and Sepi were too mad really Laughing

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