I'd rather say that Southhampton have dealt with their own turmoil in a astonishingly much better way than other teams have with their turmoil.
Cannot imagine a team more in 'transition' than Southhampton this summer lol.

Its not "bad". Nothing much has changed asides the fact that we lost the top performer to La Liga(yet again).

I still consider La Liga no 1 but that's about it. Still top 2.

Dnmac4 wrote:Again, I'm not making the judgement on European results.  I don't really factor in the structure of the tournament because A. Everyone has to deal with that B. EPL teams generally do well in the Champions League and they are chalk full of players used to the format and C.  In league the traditional teams have been flat out below expectations.

I don't think you can call Madrid's 2 week hiccup the same as Liverpool, United, Spurs, City, Arsenal's issues this year.  Madrid have certainly not been below expectations this year.

I mean Madrid is absolutely flying against all comers right now, I don't think anyone would be surprised if the put a 5-0 beating on any team in the world right now.

Also, what are these massive changes you're saying all these teams are having to deal with this year in the EPL?

1)Chelsea has Mou in year 2 which is generally his "miracle year" plus they got a lot better.

2)United got a better coach and a boatload of talent in the market.  Sure there's some settling in time but they have much better players and coach's than they did last year.

3)Arsenal has basically the same team as last year and just added some defensive depth and a close to world class striker.

4)Liverpool lost one player and basically have the same team as last year with added depth.  Yes the player they lost was world class, but they played well without him last year.

5)City basically has the same team as last year.

6)Spurs team again is very similar to last years team and they have supposedly a better coach.

7)Everton have a very similar team to last year and they locked up there star striker.

I mean managers come and go in the EPL all the time.  I think at one point last year Pardew was the longest serving manager in the league.

Again, in Italy, Spain, France, Germany they have to deal with losing there best player ALL THE TIME and massive changing of head coaches.

Hell, Dortmond lose there best player pretty much every year and the same goes for most of the Spanish and Italian teams.  

It's not like the EPL is faced with some crazy situation this year, there is actually a lot of continuity this year and teams spending a lot of money to get better.

I know it's hard to say X team would finish in this spot in a different league but if you watch and listen to the EPL games on TV and there fans they say the league is the most competitive/best in the world.

I mean it's hard to get any of the fans on here to say another league is better than the EPL.

One would have to argue that it's only competitive THIS YEAR because the teams really are not elite and kind of even in there mediocrity. Even the bottom 3-4 teams look really bad where as in past EPL years these teams were actually pretty decent.

So again it's not just Europe and I really don't know what issues these EPL teams are facing that teams in other leagues don't face on a yearly basis. I mean Atletico have to sell there best striker pretty much every year, same with Dortmund etc etc These teams would kill to have the budget some of these EPL teams have to fix there issues.

I don't think one can merely call Madrid's early season performances last year a two week blip unless one considers the results only. Many expressed concern over their defensive balance and it was this that took time.

As regards the teams you mentioned, I believe we both already agree that Chelsea have improved. United have, as you said, got a new coach and a great deal of talent. They've rarely been able to field their supposed first choice backline however. Despite their great attacking arsenal they're not considered to be significant challengers at this time because of their defensive frailty. Blackett has more appearances than Smalling, Shaw, Jones and Evans thus far in the Premier League. Taken in consideration with the fact that Van Gaal has had traditionally slow starts in all his managerial campaigns, I think it's a basis for withholding judgement until we see whether their defensive issues are systematic or simply a side effect of adjusting to a new manager.

Your summary of Arsenal I effectively agree with. They got no worse, though I would perhaps argue in addition that allowing their options at CDM to age represents regression, however Alexis represents a terrific buy and given time to also regain their defensive depth back from injury we should see the Arsenal we're used to. Not the best team in the world but one that has at least qualified for the Champions League every season, which is no mean feat. If you're applying a higher standard then fair enough, I would agree with you, but I don't think it's fair to classify them as emblematic of a poor team.

Liverpool have been a great disappointment thus far, on that we agree. You bring up the point though that they played well without Suarez last year. One would surely think that with the return of Sturridge and the additions of Lallana, Markovic, Balotelli and Can into their first team and midfield rotation that they might at least look as competitive as they did last season. I simply think it's a bit too soon to pass judgement, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. They didn't go forward, but perhaps they didn't take as many steps backward as some think.

City have essentially remained static, I agree. Having won the league last year though, surely that's not so great an accusation though? Chelsea have surpassed them through the transfer market rather than City regressing. Mangala and Fernando should make their mark in time if used properly, they have the requisite quality.

I honestly hadn't considered Spurs and Everton as part of your thread but I essentially agree with the rest of your post. As you said, the struggles of the Premier League certainly aren't unique. The quality in the bottom half also appears to be shocking. Given the cash that goes into building some of these sides, the end results are disappointing.

Also just a general note on Southampton to the others who have commented on this thread. I stated during the summer that I thought they'd comfortably survive as they've shown in the past that they are extremely sensible in the market at selecting low cost options that allow them to maintain a proven style of football, so they'd have no trouble reinvesting their substantial summer earnings into another Premier league quality side. Their issue after a lightning start last season though was depth after a mini injury crisis left them fielding some absolute scrubs. They don't have the wage space to support a squad deep enough to stay at the very top all season so they're rather dependent on the first 14-15 of their squad rather than 18-20 like most top teams. It tends to make the difference over a whole season. They're probably better than last season though given that a few of their players are simply still developing naturally in addition to their market activity.

Liverpool replaced Sturridge with Balotelli, that should work or at least hold them over until he gets back.

dostoevsky wrote:

Dnmac4 wrote:Again, I'm not making the judgement on European results.  I don't really factor in the structure of the tournament because A. Everyone has to deal with that B. EPL teams generally do well in the Champions League and they are chalk full of players used to the format and C.  In league the traditional teams have been flat out below expectations.

I don't think you can call Madrid's 2 week hiccup the same as Liverpool, United, Spurs, City, Arsenal's issues this year.  Madrid have certainly not been below expectations this year.

I mean Madrid is absolutely flying against all comers right now, I don't think anyone would be surprised if the put a 5-0 beating on any team in the world right now.

Also, what are these massive changes you're saying all these teams are having to deal with this year in the EPL?

1)Chelsea has Mou in year 2 which is generally his "miracle year" plus they got a lot better.

2)United got a better coach and a boatload of talent in the market.  Sure there's some settling in time but they have much better players and coach's than they did last year.

3)Arsenal has basically the same team as last year and just added some defensive depth and a close to world class striker.

4)Liverpool lost one player and basically have the same team as last year with added depth.  Yes the player they lost was world class, but they played well without him last year.

5)City basically has the same team as last year.

6)Spurs team again is very similar to last years team and they have supposedly a better coach.

7)Everton have a very similar team to last year and they locked up there star striker.

I mean managers come and go in the EPL all the time.  I think at one point last year Pardew was the longest serving manager in the league.

Again, in Italy, Spain, France, Germany they have to deal with losing there best player ALL THE TIME and massive changing of head coaches.

Hell, Dortmond lose there best player pretty much every year and the same goes for most of the Spanish and Italian teams.  

It's not like the EPL is faced with some crazy situation this year, there is actually a lot of continuity this year and teams spending a lot of money to get better.

I know it's hard to say X team would finish in this spot in a different league but if you watch and listen to the EPL games on TV and there fans they say the league is the most competitive/best in the world.

I mean it's hard to get any of the fans on here to say another league is better than the EPL.

One would have to argue that it's only competitive THIS YEAR because the teams really are not elite and kind of even in there mediocrity. Even the bottom 3-4 teams look really bad where as in past EPL years these teams were actually pretty decent.

So again it's not just Europe and I really don't know what issues these EPL teams are facing that teams in other leagues don't face on a yearly basis. I mean Atletico have to sell there best striker pretty much every year, same with Dortmund etc etc These teams would kill to have the budget some of these EPL teams have to fix there issues.

I don't think one can merely call Madrid's early season performances last year a two week blip unless one considers the results only. Many expressed concern over their defensive balance and it was this that took time.

As regards the teams you mentioned, I believe we both already agree that Chelsea have improved. United have, as you said, got a new coach and a great deal of talent. They've rarely been able to field their supposed first choice backline however. Despite their great attacking arsenal they're not considered to be significant challengers at this time because of their defensive frailty. Blackett has more appearances than Smalling, Shaw, Jones and Evans thus far in the Premier League. Taken in consideration with the fact that Van Gaal has had traditionally slow starts in all his managerial campaigns, I think it's a basis for withholding judgement until we see whether their defensive issues are systematic or simply a side effect of adjusting to a new manager.

Your summary of Arsenal I effectively agree with. They got no worse, though I would perhaps argue in addition that allowing their options at CDM to age represents regression, however Alexis represents a terrific buy and given time to also regain their defensive depth back from injury we should see the Arsenal we're used to. Not the best team in the world but one that has at least qualified for the Champions League every season, which is no mean feat. If you're applying a higher standard then fair enough, I would agree with you, but I don't think it's fair to classify them as emblematic of a poor team.

Liverpool have been a great disappointment thus far, on that we agree. You bring up the point though that they played well without Suarez last year. One would surely think that with the return of Sturridge and the additions of Lallana, Markovic, Balotelli and Can into their first team and midfield rotation that they might at least look as competitive as they did last season. I simply think it's a bit too soon to pass judgement, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you. They didn't go forward, but perhaps they didn't take as many steps backward as some think.

City have essentially remained static, I agree. Having won the league last year though, surely that's not so great an accusation though? Chelsea have surpassed them through the transfer market rather than City regressing. Mangala and Fernando should make their mark in time if used properly, they have the requisite quality.

I honestly hadn't considered Spurs and Everton as part of your thread but I essentially agree with the rest of your post. As you said, the struggles of the Premier League certainly aren't unique. The quality in the bottom half also appears to be shocking. Given the cash that goes into building some of these sides, the end results are disappointing.

Also just a general note on Southampton to the others who have commented on this thread. I stated during the summer that I thought they'd comfortably survive as they've shown in the past that they are extremely sensible in the market at selecting low cost options that allow them to maintain a proven style of football, so they'd have no trouble reinvesting their substantial summer earnings into another Premier league quality side. Their issue after a lightning start last season though was depth after a mini injury crisis left them fielding some absolute scrubs. They don't have the wage space to support a squad deep enough to stay at the very top all season so they're rather dependent on the first 14-15 of their squad rather than 18-20 like most top teams. It tends to make the difference over a whole season. They're probably better than last season though given that a few of their players are simply still developing naturally in addition to their market activity.

I can agree with this.

I mean I understand what EPL fans are saying there issues are but they act like this doesn't happen in other leagues on a much more frequent basis.

I mean hell, in Spain you have teams who only take players from there own province. Not scouting the whole world for talent, and other teams who basically have to call youth players up when they have an injury crisis.

To the other poster, is Balotelli not a good enough fill in for Daniel Sturridge? I mean really?

Are you serious, I'm not saying at this stage in his career he's as good as Sturridge I'm actually a big Sturridge fan but he is totally legit to fill in for a couple months.

Remember you laugh at that but you did have 20 some million dollars for a back up striker. Teams in Spain, Italy, Germany, France would kill to have those kinds of funds to fix there issues.

Especially on one player.

4)Liverpool lost one player and basically have the same team as last year with added depth. Yes the player they lost was world class, but they played well without him last year.

We played well without him?

We were essentially playing with 9 men behind the ball when he wasn't playing.

Red Alert wrote:

4)Liverpool lost one player and basically have the same team as last year with added depth.  Yes the player they lost was world class, but they played well without him last year.

We played well without him?

We were essentially playing with 9 men behind the ball when he wasn't playing.

That may not be a bad strategy.

I mean what was your record when Suarez was out last year?

In league play you need to collect points and be consistent.  Style points mean absolutely nothing.  

I'm sorry you weren't as entertained as you thought you should have been, but would you have been more entertained playing a wide open attacking brand of football and dropping points?

I don't really understand your post, it makes no sense.