Re: Torres Appreciation Thread

[Forza]

But the question wasnt "is he going to be good for Milan", it was "why has he declined so badly". Thats what Leswagg posted and what I replied to.

I think we're still talking about the same topic. My angle is the extent of this decline. Was pace so integral to Torres' game that he has now been stamped with a "damaged goods" label in indelible ink? In other words, is his decline irreversible? I think that perhaps the reason for his fall from grace may be his failure to justify his huge price tag at Chelsea. He moved to a rival club for an enormous transfer fee and crumbled under the weight of expectation. At Milan, he will be removed from that environment and maybe he will flourish again.

[The Franchise]

I see.

Well, do believe so yes. For two reasons, the first is that he didnt just sign for Chelsea and suddenly lose his abilities. The signs of this decline were already there at the end of his Pool career. When he returned from injury, he played for about 3-4 months (I cant remember exactly how long) and he looked the same as he did after moving to Chelsea and to this day.

Some may blame Roy Hodgson for that, others Pool's general struggles at the time. But for me this evades the actual problem Torres had. These managerial problems were just on top of his real issue.

The second is basically what I can see in his game now compared to the best years of his career. The differences.

I dont think its anything to do with expectations and things like that. I think simply put he isnt the force he used to be because he took one hamstring injury too many and like most people, you dont get faster as you get older.

Maybe he will be better at Milan than at Chelsea, it would be harder to do worse. But the Torres of old is gone in my opinion.

[Forza]

For Milan's sake I hope you're wrong, but I can understand how you've formed that opinion and it could very well be correct. We'll have to wait and see.

[Dante]

Torres will never be the same player that he was at Liverpool. Good points were made already , no need to go through it again , by both sides too. It is what it is , it's not naturaly possible for him to reach that level of performance again . As a side note , i've seen that movie again with other players , no one ever does. Age , injuries , the seasons that follow him ..

All that being said , it does not necessarily exclude him from being good for Milan . I think if Milan is about to actually play football this season , Torres may do just fine . He's still a strong player and fast enough for the job at hand. As for his finishing , well we must be real , it is not impressive . But i am reluctant to say anything more than that , this is a new chapter for Torres .

Personally , i don't necessarily judge a striker by sheer amount of goals , rather the importance of his goals . I would gladly have Torres scoring 5 goals a season , but these 5 meaning we won derbies or won a cup , lead us to the next round of X , e.t.c . That is more important than padding your stats against Cagliari and Sassuolo , in games already won or lost by others. I would take Torres' goal against Barcelona than 30 in a season without that goal . And Torres has scored goals of significant importance in his career so far .

If he only brings that with him and succeeds being part of an effective attack , no one will bat an eye how many he scores a season. Like i said in the section , it's all very similar to when Inzaghi signed for Milan . A player well past his best , with little hope of reaching former hights. And with the exception of that great season of 2002-2003 , he never did , not physicaly , nor statisticaly . But everyone loved him for exactly the player he was and he was very important and succesfull for almost a decade at Milan. I am saying , we can't tell how it will turn out for Torres.

And even with Inzaghi , especially after 2006 , although he still scored a lot for his age , too much i would say , he still missed ridiculously many and easy chances every single season . Torres has experience behind him and himself said , one of the reasons he joined Milan was because of Pippo , that he knows how a striker feels. He knows he can help him overcome his issues and round up his game. I don't expect crazy results , but i do expect to see a Torres that will enjoy himself again . That i do and if we are actually going to be a proper team again , all the better for Torres.

[Curtinho]

Milan definitely need/deserve better players than Poli, Essien and Muntari in their midfield. If they're going to play the 4-3-3 they should set up like this:

Muntari-De Jong
Honda
Menez-Torres-Shaarawy

Just IMO. Regardless if they're going to play all of Honda, Menez, Shaarawy and Torres together I think he could have a very good year with a bit of confidence.

[Dante]

There will be a lot of rotation this season at Milan. At least as far as i can see , i suppose when Montolivo gets back , it will be more stable.

Even then , depending on the game at hand each time , i really don't think Inzaghi has anything so definite in mind . He knows his best players , who's at form and more important than anything else , the opponents. That's how we will be going this season and i think Torres goes in 2nd fate with regards to this.

However , one player Torres is going to absolutely fall in love with and that is Montolivo. I can confirm that , had Balotelli been more willing to work harder last season , only Montolivo's long balls would have given him at least 10 goals . Not to mention passes from the deep that he never cared to chase. Torres likes to chase a dead ball and challenges like that , he likes to run into space , i think they will go along superbly.

In general lines , we can play to Torres strengths , but unfortunately that won't be week in week out . He will have to show more than what suits him best.

[•MilanDevil•]

I believe that Torres lost confidence because he allowed doubt to get into his head. It all depends on his personality type. A high fee transfer from Liverpool to Chelsea meant that Torres must live up to his potential but this only added pressure. The pressure could have affected Torres mentally and thus resulted in the loss of confidence. Later on, criticism followed which made matters worse as he was probably starting to believe the words of his critics.

Torres can restore his confidence if the people around him start motivating him and make him believe in his abilities; a new beginning in Italy could be the answer.

[LeBéninois]

I believe that Torres lost confidence because he allowed doubt to get into his head. It all depends on his personality type. A high fee transfer from Liverpool to Chelsea meant that Torres must live up to his potential but this only added pressure. The pressure could have affected Torres mentally and thus resulted in the loss of confidence. Later on, criticism followed which made matters worse as he was probably starting to believe the words of his critics.

Torres can restore his confidence if the people around him start motivating him and make him believe in his abilities; a new beginning in Italy could be the answer.

I'm not so sure. Even if you restore the confidence, the fact is Torres won't be as good as before because of age/injuries etc.
How many players were supposedly going to get back at their level after moving up to Milan ?

[Dante]

I believe that Torres lost confidence because he allowed doubt to get into his head. It all depends on his personality type. A high fee transfer from Liverpool to Chelsea meant that Torres must live up to his potential but this only added pressure. The pressure could have affected Torres mentally and thus resulted in the loss of confidence. Later on, criticism followed which made matters worse as he was probably starting to believe the words of his critics.

Torres can restore his confidence if the people around him start motivating him and make him believe in his abilities; a new beginning in Italy could be the answer.

I'm not so sure. Even if you restore the confidence, the fact is Torres won't be as good as before because of age/injuries etc.
How many players were supposedly going to get back at their level after moving up to Milan ?

Too many to even remotely think this process is even real . There's no such thing . Once a player stays a long time from his particular best form , that is it , he's never getting what he had back . There are too many examples and only exceptions exist to prove the rule. Being a player in the best form of your career only lasts so much and it certainly doesn't happen twice. You can only be in your mid 20s for so long.  

Torres cannot be truly compared to the other cases of players trying to reach former hights however. Ronaldo , Ronaldinho , Shevchenko , Robinho , Kaka , Vieri a century ago e.t.c . All of them came for this particular reason , to find what they had already and barely succeeded at that , if not totally fail. Torres came for who he is right now , not in hope of what may return , his speed and youth and his legs without injuries will never return. Therefore , the Torres of Liverpool will never return. But Torres in form again , being an important part of a team that counts on him? That can happen .

But going back to 2007 standards isn't happening. Torres , regardless of the list of reasons that lead to his decline from the top which are of course relevant and important , really needed a change of not only scenery , but new purpose. Having said that , i doubt even if our circus of a management expects him to reach his Liverpool hights again .
Truth is , Torres is everything Balotelli could not be for Milan and not just on the field. Inzaghi wanted him too and that's a good reason why he is here. To be a striker we can be sure of giving 100% , but with experience behind him . Not to find his former self , not to rediscover the wheel , not to prove himself.. He signed for us to feel important again and actually being important will do wonders for him , as far as the fable of returning to his best goes. As far as expectations go , we want Torres to be a part of our road to success , not the sole reason behind it . Goals are of great importance , but nobody expects him to top the charts , just be what Balotelli could not. That alone will be a success for Milan and our goals.  

Something vital , it's not like Balotelli banged them left and right either , to speak the truth , had he done so we would never finish 8th.. Torres can be much more useful to us , exactly because of the player he is , a stubborn , hard working striker , eager to enjoy himself again . Balotelli stopped caring once his status was cemented after his half season and he is 24 ffs. I remember Inzaghi at 37 running more than him , it is obvious why Inzaghi didn't say no to Torres and why he's here . What Balotelli was doing is something outrageous and of course was not to be tolerated. Thankfully at Liverpool he has to start anew and he will have to stop his bs . Maybe , if he ever learned anything , he will keep working hard to actually get to keep what he gains there.

In the end , Torres is fundamentally different both as player and as a man , very close to what Inzaghi seeks from his striker. And if Inzaghi chose him despite all his weaknesses , it must mean something . Improvements can always happen , despite whatever limits there may be . But he can still be good enough even without ever reaching his former glory . Let's not forget how much Torres has won already. I am fairly certain he will go out there with conviction and enjoy himself again , which is the closest to get back to his best . I think all Torres really has to do is play , help us out to the best of his ability and enjoy the ride himself . Nothing more , nothing less .

[LeBéninois]

I get what your point. tbf Torres overall display is still good even great at times. Scoring goals is another story. I honestly can't see him going from 5-6 goals a year to 20+ within a year. Milan ac shouldn't ask/expect him to be their scorer. If anything, the best way for him to enjoy himself again is to be relieved from the pressure of scoring. A bit like Tevez imo. Tell him '' We don't need you to score 20+ as long as you bring others things on the table '' .

[Dante]

I never got that 20+ goals standard , or whatever it seems to be these days.. Like if you score 16 goals in a season means it's neglectable. Not so.

First of all , 20+ goals need a 20+ assists teammates behind said player to produce like that. Nobody expects anything close to that by Torres. I agree he shall be relieved of grand expectations , but he himself will want to achieve something impressive in his first season at Milan . I'd say he can score near 15 goals , in both league and cup though. It would definitely be a succesfull first season for him .

Most important like i said , is that he enjoys himself again and gets to be a vital part of our attack , whether the goals come from him or not. I think that's something he is able to manage.

[LeBéninois]

Agree. Also I was talking 20 goals all comps ( didn't remmenber Milan even won't play EL this season )

[Dante]

i try to forget about that , the irony

the fact that we won't be playing in europe this season , will help too . Not his tally by any means , but how he approaches games and in what form . Having one game a week has proven gold for both Juventus and Roma before and it will certainly help Milan this time too. And hopefully Torres as well.

More than anything i am curious to watch him play in Italy. He had said in the past that he would like to play both in Italy and Germany one day and i always kept that from him.. can't wait to see him play his first game , regardless of how he does .

Although , it will actualy be very important , exactly how soon he scores his first goal. Matri took way too long , for instance and it broke him all the way. Break that duck sooner than later and everything will get that much easier for him.

Parma is a good opportunity and personally think he will score in his debut.

[Red Alert]

He couldn't have been playing for a better club.  

EDIT: Skip to 16:30

[nadinkrah]

Milan fans trying too hard to defend Torres. Let us wait and see what happens

[Dante]

Milan fans trying too hard to defend Torres. Let us wait and see what happens

nah , not really . We're certainly not trying anything hard , nor we 'defend' Torres. He has to actually fail first , so we could do that lol

It is simply our hope he does well , like any fan would want from a new signing , that is all. Bringing some arguments to the other side as well. And at the bottom of it , it's not like we do not know how Torres was doing these years. Nobody will be surprised if he does fail in Milan .

We simply point out that it's not the only possible outcome .

[Forza]

Dante's absolutely right. There's nothing wrong with being hopeful that Torres will do well.

[Red Alert]

He's carrying Milan back to Europe.

[Guest]

Milan fans trying too hard to defend Torres. Let us wait and see what happens

we are not defending torres. we know he has qualities to do well, and we are realistic about his situation and we certainly arent expecting to have liverpool like form.

if he doesnt perform then he will be scrutinized for sure, we are just expecting him to contribute in attack well at minimum and most milan fans know each other well that we havent even expecting to be highest scorer or something.

but so far.. in his first full game...

Goals 1, Shots 4, Dribbles 5, Interceptions 1, Clearances 1..

that is more than what we expected him of.

[Guest]

I get what your point. tbf Torres overall display is still good even great at times. Scoring goals is another story. I honestly can't see him going from 5-6 goals a year to 20+ within a year. Milan ac shouldn't ask/expect him to be their scorer. If anything, the best way for him to enjoy himself again is to be relieved from the pressure of scoring. A bit like Tevez imo. Tell him '' We don't need you to score 20+ as long as you bring others things on the table '' .

exactly! like benin says as long as u contribute for the cause of the team because torres has that quality of being more than just scorer.

if he just sit backs and does nothing like some strikers do unless service comes up then ya thats not good enough.

[Curtinho]

Torres you legend.

[Robespierre]

Forlan scored also in his Serie A debut tbf

[Forza]

Forlan scored also in his Serie A debut tbf

It wasn't Torres' debut. He played a few minutes at the end of the Juve game.

[Arquitecto]

There is a reason why Dante and I since Torres' transfer said he will be a success and it wasn't all false hope.

Number one need was having Torres get out of Chelsea to vanquish the incremental pressure that caused him to become a husk of himself. Right after 'that' miss at Old Trafford I knew he would never recover in Chelsea; hence a new start was needed yet in a different country at a new club to which would reboot him mentally.

Now he has that chance at Milan. His words, reflections, actions and movements on the pitch dictate the immediate difference. His time in Chelsea is done as that will forever be a stain in his storied career yet at Milan; coached by one of the most intelligent strikers of all time, at a club known to bring players in the doldrums back from their shadow and the intangible 'Milan Effect' that has been proven for years will cause him to be an important player for us.

One game is a very small sample size yet the difference was immediate. Tactically Pippo's 4-3-3 does not allow just a regular CF and as displayed by the use of Menez, when the CF is forward, the right and left forwards act more as attacking midfielders as displayed by the use of El Shaarawy and Honda in their tendencies. Yet when the wide forwards are advanced, the CF will continuously drop deep, allowing the midfielders to advanced forward while the CF is given copious freedom to create and move in between the lines.

Menez was a False 9 whereas Torres vs Empoli was the reference point. Aside from his first 20 minutes he was always in the game, continuously linking up, creating plays and making more calculative runs into the box. You WILL NOT see a Fernando Torres attempting to reignite his old self by making use of pace, weaving within the box, staying on the shoulder of the defender and as vertical as he originally was. In Milan Pippo made note on how he has had to evolve his role based on his reduced pace but improved creativity and vision which was prominent in Chelsea. You will see him function as a pivot reactive to the wide players yet with complete freedom to encounter runs out wide (on the ball) and into the box since our wide players like to move central outside the box to pass (SES, Honda, Menez).

In essence, you will not see the Torres of old in goal return nor style yet a more measured Torres who has more impact on the box regardless of goals, a more multi-dimensional role, one to lead the line and in my opinion, a more mature Torres.

There is much to be learned on his use, form and importance for us yet his tactical use vs Empoli was clear from the first 10 minutes and it was exactly what I wanted from Pippo in utilizing Fernando.

[Gil]

Arq and Dante giving me hope again. Too many false dawns for me to have faith in him again. I'll start believing again if he destroys Cesena.

[RealGunner]

Resurgent Torres https://vine.co/v/OMBO69n9B5P

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