So i was at the local pub the other day when a bunch of guys, including a bar ca fan, were ribbing a utd supporter about the sunderland match. The utd guy got pissed and started yelling that utd is the biggest club in the world, most supported, etc. while barca is in a 2 horse league... the barca fan laughed and told him utd are small fry, and that NO SINGLE UTD PLAYER would get into an all time barca xi. The utd fan started throwing a fit and throwing out various names(ie keane giggs best) for which the barca fan kept replying with a better player. At the end the utd fan was crying and seething and they almost came to blows...So I was just wondering ur thoughts...is the barca fan correct in that utd are small fry in terms of historically great players?

Well... if we're talking strictly from an all time first XI point of view... the Barca fan is probably right.

Ronaldo > Best
Maradona > Charlton
etc.

However, an all time XI should not take into account only the names (aka how good was a player), but also how he performed for that team - for example Ronaldo only spent a year in Barcelona and I doubt that he will make a fan's all time XI.

Tricky subject either way you put it. I am a Barcelona fan and some of the best players in history played here, but one could argue that the likes of Giggs, Scholes, Charlton, Best or Bryan Robson also deserve a shout to be considered great players.

was just a bit of banter between myself and cyberman.

George Best would destroy anyone from a all time Barca team in 1 versus 1.

Schmeichel could probably make a solid case, at least in modern times. Best GK I have ever seen. It's hard to say though. Scholes was legit world class through many years, and could make a case from what I've seen, but I'm really limited about Barca from before 99, and even less from before the 90's where I have seen nothing except NT football and Champions League matches.

best and ronaldo would walk into any barça 11.

But Ronaldo played for Barça, not United

4dfoot's best elevens:

http://www.4dfoot.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/ManUtd.jpg

http://www.4dfoot.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Barca4Dfoot1.jpg

Tell the truth OP, you made that story up just to shoehorn this debate.

Tbh 95% of this forum never saw United's legends play

Let's just say Barca did have a superior group of players, however having a superior group of players doesn't always mean the team is better.

Silly arguement. I can't really comment on the Utd legends, as i didn't see the majority of them play, but i can say they have had some outstanding talent that are absolute legends (regardless of if they would walk in to our all time 11 or not, who cares)

I think the interesting position would be the left wing, Ronaldinho vs Ronaldo; or would it be Best or Giggs? Like I said, I'm not an expert on the the Utd group. Does Utd even consider Ronaldo as an all time 11 player?

Ronaldo was better than Giggs and on par with Cantona if not better IMO.

This is a hard one. I mean you really have to manage how you are judging these players and what makes one player better than the other.

For me it's hard to put any of the United players in the team because 1)For the most recent generation that have come down to being shells of themselves or have retired all together I just can't put Giggs or Scholes over Xavi or Iniesta. And Iniesta doesn't even make some of the all time great teams plus he still has a couple years of great football left in him plus you have what they accomplished with the Spanish national team as well.

2) I can't put Vidic over Puyol because for my money Puyol is the most underrated defenders/leaders of all time and should be right up there with the best defenders ever. He has all the numbers and trophies for club and country to back it up as well. 3)A lot of these guys in the current generation played a massive part in the best club and record setting national teams of all time.

I mean if you just look at some of the players left out of the starting 11 for Barca it's insane. Do you consider Maradona, Ronaldo as there stays were brief?

For me at the end of his career Ronaldo will be the best player who ever played for United but is he a straight swap for Messi who I think is a better player.

It's a good argument but United may get 1-2 guys in the team and that's pushing it. It's not slight on United but the depth of all time great players Barca have is really a joke.

I always thought this of united. They have many legends for their club but not many are seen as football legends.

Barca have had many like cryuff, maradona, messi, iniesta, laudrup, xavi, ronaldo, romario, rivaldo, ronaldinho, henry, suarez (old one), eto'o and possibly some others i've missed. All of these players were ballon d'or winners or runners up or got third place and all of them had some type of international football success as well.

You really can't think of many united players at all to create a list like that.

messi-kabala-ronaldinho-rivaldo-iniesta-stoichkov-cruyff-laudrup
roy keane-boby charlton-erik cantona-beckham-cr7-best-scholes-giggs

so The Barcelona fan was wrong to make that claim but again I for example really liked Roy Keane as a player and it happens that De rossi chose his number inspired by him(N16) and i never watched cruyff. Stoichkov and laudrup were great players too but still i turn to fave Manchester United in that comparison

This is my all time 11 based on success in a barca shirt..

------------------------Zubi
Albert Ferrer-----Puyol---------Koeman-----Sergi Barjuán
------------------Xavi------Guardiola
----------------------Cruyff
-----Messi---------Cesar Rodriguez--------Ronaldinho

I'd say Man U all time 11 could probably beat our players in the back but the rest is no contest...

if it were a popularity contest

----------------------Zubi
------Puyol---------Koeman-------Joan Segarra
---------------Xavi---------Pep
----Messi-----------Cruyff----------Ronaldinho
------------Maradona----Ronaldo