Gil wrote:

Zealous wrote:Kroos's long diagonal balls alone make him a more valuable asset than Cesc imo.

Plus what Viva said lol

That and his shooting technique are the only things he's better at. Cesc pisses over him in everything else.

Casc can not defend.

Cesc is not that great in dictating play.

Cesc is not that great in Intelligence and Ball Reception.

You can set-pieces as Kroos is good at it.

Cesc as a CM is a just poor and much worse than Kroos. However as a CAM he is slightly quicker, can score more goals, is slightly more creative and has slightly more vision and decision making in the final 3rd.

Both are different players. Cesc is useless as a CM compared to Kroos who has the best ball retention, positioning and circulation in the world. Kroos can dominate any mid-field.

I don't see Kroos offering defensively a lot or creativity which is why I never rated him that high but Cesc is nowhere good enough.

Another of Mourinho's poor guys with Willian. Mou's poor transfer dealing have massively damaged Chelsea

Fußball wrote:

Gil wrote:

Zealous wrote:Kroos's long diagonal balls alone make him a more valuable asset than Cesc imo.

Plus what Viva said lol

That and his shooting technique are the only things he's better at. Cesc pisses over him in everything else.

His long shots? My sides. Fabregas goalscoring tally in the past 5 seasons:

19
9
15
13
13

Kroos' goalscoring tally in the past 5 seasons:

9
3
7
9
4

Amount of shots Kroos has taken last season: 100 (for 4 goals)
Amount of shots Fabregas has taken the last season: 61 (for 13 goals)

Just because Kroos takes pointless long shots doesn't make him a specialist at it. It's obvious who the better goalscorer is.

Long diagonal balls? My sides again. Fabregas is probably the best long passer in the world even ahead of Alonso. That aspect has simply never been utilized at Barca. Here's a Premier League compilation of his long passing with dozens of 40, 50 yard passes dropping inch perfect.



There is nothing Kroos is better at than Fabregas. And I wanted Fabregas sold.

I would choose Pierre Emile or Thiago to start over Kroos. But there is no one better in the world positionally as a CM, to dominate a midfield and exert control, ball retention and circulation. He never looses the ball.

He is even better than Xavi in ball circulation eve though he might not have Xavi brain, creativity but Kroos is an elite CM.

Fabregas is a CM in a local pub team as he has no tactical intelligence, defensive ability, ability to dominate and control a game

How is it even an argument that Cesc is better than Kroos?
Cesc could barely even play ahead of an aging Xavi at Barcelona.
You can refer to his Arsenal days... but that was over 3 years ago (a long, long time in footballing terms). Besides, Kroos just won the World Cup! And if you want to argue with statistics, he topped the Castrol ranking for the whole damn tournament. Oh, did I mention that he was a key player in Bayern's team that won the league in record time? And that he also won the Cup? Bar the Champions League (where the responsibility really lies on Guardiola's tactical shortcomings) Kroos has just had, along with Schweiny, Lahm, Boateng, Muller, Neuer and Gotze, one of the best seasons (in terms of silverware alone) that any player could ever have. Seriously, the Champions League is the only thing he didn't win...
His ability to retain possession and dictate the tempo of the game is astounding. His shots from outside the box (left and right footed) are amongst the best in the game today.
Not to mention, Cesc is 27, Toni is 24 (again, 3 years is a lot of time in football).

I would love to go on... but really, what's the point?
Anybody arguing Cesc is better is horribly deluded and outrageously biased.

Seems like a good buy by Real Madrid and a risky sale by Bayern Munich. We'll see.

Getting 30m € for him is not really a risky sell since he was going to leave on a free next year anyway.

He's the one who took the biggest risk, and he might regret it.

Kroos cost lest than Shaw...  
And almost a third of what Suarez cost...  

This forum is so predictable, had it been Cesc playing for Madrid and Kroos for Chelsea. The people who take preference to Madrid as a team they like watching, would say Cesc > Kroos.

Abramovich wrote:This forum is so predictable, had it been Cesc playing for Madrid and Kroos for Chelsea. The people who take preference to Madrid as a team they like watching, would say Cesc > Kroos.

And Chelsea fans on this forum doesn't overrate their players You probably didn't rate any of your current players before they signed

Freeza wrote:

Abramovich wrote:This forum is so predictable, had it been Cesc playing for Madrid and Kroos for Chelsea. The people who take preference to Madrid as a team they like watching, would say Cesc > Kroos.

And Chelsea fans on this forum doesn't overrate their players You probably didn't rate any of your current players before they signed

You're trying to say he didn't rate Costa, Luis and Fabregas. Add to that Hazard, Oscar, Eto'o and so on

Kick wrote:

Freeza wrote:

Abramovich wrote:This forum is so predictable, had it been Cesc playing for Madrid and Kroos for Chelsea. The people who take preference to Madrid as a team they like watching, would say Cesc > Kroos.

And Chelsea fans on this forum doesn't overrate their players You probably didn't rate any of your current players before they signed

You're trying to say he didn't rate Costa, Luis and Fabregas. Add to that Hazard, Oscar, Eto'o and so on

overrate should have been the word.
Hazard, yeah you lot sure watched the heck out of Lille before he signed.
Oscar, probably only Ganso and other Brazilians knew about him, then he signed and Gil among others proclaimed him to be the best young AM in the world.
Eto'o was finished, which everyone knew.
Fabregas has pretty much been labeled as a huge flop and hasn't proven to be a consistently great player for years, but now he's better at everything that Kroos is.

Luis, I can say nothing about him, top LB in the world.
Costa is a donkey, technique of potato.

overrate? He didn't overrate our players before they signed? What?

Also, you don't have to watch a lot of a player to get an idea of how good they are. Otherwise you'd have to dedicate your life to scouting your teams current targets.

Freeza wrote:

Kick wrote:

Freeza wrote:

And Chelsea fans on this forum doesn't overrate their players You probably didn't rate any of your current players before they signed

You're trying to say he didn't rate Costa, Luis and Fabregas. Add to that Hazard, Oscar, Eto'o and so on

overrate should have been the word.
Hazard, yeah you lot sure watched the heck out of Lille before he signed.
Oscar, probably only Ganso and other Brazilians knew about him, then he signed and Gil among others proclaimed him to be the best young AM in the world.
Eto'o was finished, which everyone knew.
Fabregas has pretty much been labeled as a huge flop and hasn't proven to be a consistently great player for years, but now he's better at everything that Kroos is.

Luis, I can say nothing about him, top LB in the world.
Costa is a donkey, technique of potato.

Why are we going off on tangents?

teamanarchy wrote:How is it even an argument that Cesc is better than Kroos?
Cesc could barely even play ahead of an aging Xavi at Barcelona.
You can refer to his Arsenal days... but that was over 3 years ago (a long, long time in footballing terms). Besides, Kroos just won the  World Cup! And if you want to argue with statistics, he topped the Castrol ranking for the whole damn tournament. Oh, did I mention that he was a key player in Bayern's team that won the league in record time? And that he also won the Cup? Bar the Champions League (where the responsibility really lies on Guardiola's tactical shortcomings) Kroos has just had, along with Schweiny, Lahm, Boateng, Muller, Neuer and Gotze, one of the best seasons (in terms of silverware alone) that any player could ever have. Seriously, the Champions League is the only thing he didn't win...
His ability to retain possession and dictate the tempo of the game is astounding. His shots from outside the box (left and right footed) are amongst the best in the game today.
Not to mention, Cesc is 27, Toni is 24 (again, 3 years is a lot of time in football).

I would love to go on... but really, what's the point?
Anybody arguing Cesc is better is horribly deluded and outrageously biased.

Castrol Rankings are poor. Kroos gives midfield control but he was not the reason why we won the league or the Cup. He did his job but we would have won with or without him. If he was that important he would have left for free as 30M means little to Bayern. Kroos is not a game changer or a trophy winner, he does not have the offensive or defensive ability to kill a game.

What he will give is absolute midfield control and domination, his long shots are okay, not a game changer but okay. He will help Madrid retain possession with Modric and dominate games but you need your Bale's and Ronaldo's upfront to win you the matches. Kroos will give you a base.

I preferred Pierre Emile or Thiago for Bayern or Modric for Madrid as they bring much more handling speed, forward defensive splitting vision, workrate, etc. Problem for Real will be to play both Modric and Kroos, none can play as a DM.

So who mops the play. You add a DM and you slow down the midfield and push it back. You loose Di Maria's speed, attacking venom, goal-threat, etc. You get more midfield control. It's a trade off. It's good to have such an option.

Atleast you can play Isco or Di Maria or Kroos or Modric and play around with 2 different kind of 4-3-3's. Should be fun

Mole, did we sign the right german midfielder this time?

I mean, it's a clear midfield dilemma for Madrid. Last season, we lined up like this:
Di Maria - Alonso - Modric
All of them were pretty great... so who Kroos takes over from is an issue. It seems likely that Di Maria will leave, so:
Kroos - Alonso - Modric
But then again, Xabi is on the wrong side of 30 and may slowly be filtered out of the team:
Di Maria - Kroos - Modric
But Kroos isn't really a DM, so we may need to give Khedira preference:
Kroos - Khedira - Modric
But Khedira also looks likely to go:
Kroos - Illara - Modric

The last one is hopefully the worst case scenario (where Xabi, Di Maria and Khedira all lose their places in the team - or leave)
But, I'm speculating here... I really have no clue how this will work out... hell, Carlo may even permanently adopt the 4-4-2 he used against Bayern and Barca...
Di Maria - Kroos - Alonso - Modric
This would be at the expense of Ronaldo or Bale though, and I don't see that happening...
Any thoughts on this?

James Rodriguez is also rumoured to be signing as well.

We should just offer Di Maria the salary he wants and keep him. In terms of formations, with Kroos I guess it would be:

---------Kroos
---Modric----Di Maria
Bale----------------Ronaldo
--------Benzema

diamond 442 ?

terrance511 wrote:diamond 442 ?

Kroos
Modric----Di Maria
james
Bale------Ronaldo

yes

I don't think Benzema will be dropped. If all the rumours come to fruition:

-------Modric---Kroos
-----------James
---Bale---Benzema---Ronaldo

Yohan Modric wrote:I don't think Benzema will be dropped. If all the rumours come to fruition:

-------Modric---Kroos
-----------James
---Bale---Benzema---Ronaldo

that's suicide.

Yeh, which is why I don't think we need James Rodriguez.

if we sign james we will play in 442, CR having to defend covering coentrao will be suicide. it will be 442 if we sign him, James playing outwide. which is dumb because to me Di Maria is far more dangerous than James outwide.

Mr Nick09 wrote:Mole, did we sign the right german midfielder this time?

Depends how you use him tbf, i have said before that while he is good deep and does circulate possession extremely well that i don't believe you get the best from him in that role.

That role limits his talents and would prefer him used differently, but we'll see.

We manita Bayern and we leave Munich with one of their best players

oh btw, this is how the toni kroos thread went on redcafe

1) toni kroos is awesome, we need him, new scholes
2) madrid want toni kroos? get in there van gaal, he loves van gaal
3) van gaal doesnt want him, must not be good
4) hail herrera, genius,
5) are we sure we dont want kroos? we can still get in there, fck off mehdrid
6) he signed for madrid? he wasnt even good anyway
7) not very good kroos, madrid will ruin u

Tbh i don't think Kroos is a need for Man Yoo right now, they made their bed with Herrera.

Pursuing Vidal/Di Maria if they can makes more sense for them.

With Mata they have choice but to play a 4-2-3-1 imo. Now they just need a defensive mid.