why not just

William------Neymar-------Hulk

I agree. Just take Fred out and use Neymar. They seem to have better wide options than strikers, so just add Willian or Oscar/Bernard out wide in the mix and have Neymar play a false 9 type of deal like he has done fantastically with Barca

farfan wrote:in hindsight , this is a bona fide world cup winning team ... but people were skeptical at the time .

people weren't sure that ronaldo , coming off a 3 years struggle with injury was ready to lead the brazilian attack, especially when scolari didn't take any natural number 9 as back ups .
rivaldo was coming off a terrible season with barcelona,  was deemed too old ,and not a good choice to play upfront with R9.
ronaldinho was viewed as inexperienced, hasn't played in a " top league " and just not good enough to play behind the strikers .
gilberto silva was largely an unknown quantity and deemed not good enough to replace the injured emerson .
kleberson who ?
roque LOLior was a laughing stock .

and we know how that one ended....

Brazil were joint-third favourites for 2002, only behind Argentina and France.

I'd say Neymar is better when there is a clear reference point that creates space for him (i.e. Fred).

if he's use as the striker he can still set up hulk, or the other winger that will cut inside..

Yea. A winger can always still cut inside and he would still end up the runner behind, which is what helps him then turn around and either create or cut in himself. Having him out wide with Fred up front just doesn't seem like a World Cup winning idea to me. Lets see though..

windkick wrote:Just take Fred out and use Neymar.

I don't know, in the first two games Neymar has been their most creative player and helped bring the ball up a lot. I think Brazil need him as winger/attacking-mid.

Give Jo a chance, I think he'll do well.

I feel like this might have been discussed before, but why was Lucas Moura left out?

ranDOM 10 wrote:I feel like this might have been discussed before, but why was Lucas Moura left out?

Big Phil preferred Willian over him. Good call actually imo.

Here''s the thing.... Brazil played football samba back in the day where the midfield (yes the midfield) played at their rhythm regardless of the opponent.  They were artists in the middle.  Then when they found an opening on the attack, they had the killer strikers.  That's what it was all about:  Football samba.

Now, you have freakin Paulinho and Gustavo...  two hacks in the midfield.  They have poor technique and poor tactical awareness.  But they bring physical impact.  That's the extent of their skills.

So Brazil can't outskill opponents today...  they have to out-muscle them.  Well, it's much easier to match a team who relies on physical strength than one who is superior technically.  Today, Brazil is not superior technically.

Football samba is dead and it's criminal imo.

Who do i blame this on?  Carlos Alberto Parreira.  He's a physical trainer by education.  So of course he's going to emphasize physical strength since that's what he knows... there's nothing wrong with that.  BUT, after he won the WC in 1994, the Brazilian federation used Perreira as the inspiration for their technical direction.  That meant that Parreira provided the direction of the both the youth development centers and the manager development... and the emphasis shifted fromt technical ability to physical strength.  You have exceptions here and there...  but you no longer have wave after wave of super technical players to choose from.  Brazil lost its soul right there and then.  20 years later, you have the Brazil NT of today.

Not doubting that Brazil will be competitive and may even win things here and there...  but the Brazilian style of football has been lost unfortunately.  I almost hope that Brazil truly flops so that perhaps the direction of football in the country reverses course to its roots.  Wishfull thinking, i know.

sportsczy wrote:Here''s the thing.... Brazil played football samba back in the day where the midfield (yes the midfield) played at their rhythm regardless of the opponent.  They were artists in the middle.  Then when they found an opening on the attack, they had the killer strikers.  That's what it was all about:  Football samba.

Now, you have freakin Paulinho and Gustavo...  two hacks in the midfield.  They have poor technique and poor tactical awareness.  But they bring physical impact.  That's the extent of their skills.

So Brazil can't outskill opponents today...  they have to out-muscle them.  Well, it's much easier to match a team who relies on physical strength than one who is superior technically.  Today, Brazil is not superior technically.

Football samba is dead and it's criminal imo.

Who do i blame this on?  Carlos Alberto Parreira.  He's a physical trainer by education.  So of course he's going to emphasize physical strength since that's what he knows... there's nothing wrong with that.  BUT, after he won the WC in 1994, the Brazilian federation used Perreira as the inspiration for their technical direction.  That meant that Parreira provided the direction of the both the youth development centers and the manager development... and the emphasis shifted fromt technical ability to physical strength.  You have exceptions here and there...  but you no longer have wave after wave of super technical players to choose from.  Brazil lost its soul right there and then.  20 years later, you have the Brazil NT of today.

Not doubting that Brazil will be competitive and may even win things here and there...  but the Brazilian style of football has been lost unfortunately.  I almost hope that Brazil truly flops so that perhaps the direction of football in the country reverses course to its roots.  Wishfull thinking, i know.

PREACH!

When you have Ramires starting at RW, I don't see why you would even call of Willian or Lucas. I've grown to resent Brazil over the last couple of World Cups and can't get behind our style of play. Hated our 2006 team and even went as far as rooting for Chile to win.

@Ganso, what is your reasoning for wanting Willian over Lucas? What don't you like about him?

anybody who doubts Fred by now is impatient.. even prefare Fred to guys like higuain!

Teams like the Netherlands are choke artists. the
world cup isn't the CL where the 5 zeros and 7
zeroes matter much. the knock out round are an
entire proposition altogether!.. tipping Brazil to
bring their 'A' game to the knock out stages. I
usually fear teams that never start out too well in
group stages but still are able to grind out results
regardless. if history is anything to go by Neymar
would boss the knock out stages. just like the
libertadores, confederations cup, and Olympics
(regardless of the fact that Brazil didn't win). just
like romario and Ronaldo Lima. always
underwhelming in the group stages, in fact Ronaldo
had just one goal in the group stages in 98 with a
group involving morocco, scotland, and Norway
(even with a far more talented team than this
current one). Buh alas he was still the player of
that tournament. guys like neymar know how to
turn it up at the right moment (sometimes all it
requires is just one moment of memmerizing
brilliance, and who else could be better for that
kind of mojo?)...this squad is very young so let's
cut them some slack. i also believe in oscar
and..wait for it FRED. Brazil to knock the
Netherlands out of the WC. you heard it here first.

ranDOM 10 wrote:@Ganso, what is your reasoning for wanting Willian over Lucas? What don't you like about him?

I never said I wanted Willian over Lucas,Scolari is the one who doesn't want Lucas and the main reason for that is that the fans want Lucas.As I said, Felipao is a stubborn mofo and he always goes against the fan's wishes.


btw there is a new training session today, maybe(hopefully) we will see some changes.

Well Brazil is going to have to figure out something because Holland and Chile are on a far different level than the teams in pool play. Chile is a tougher version of Mexico and Holland is supremely talented on the attack.

Fred is good enough, just didn't show it in the first 2 games.
Just give him some time

Pippo wrote:

farfan wrote:in hindsight , this is a bona fide world cup winning team ... but people were skeptical at the time .

people weren't sure that ronaldo , coming off a 3 years struggle with injury was ready to lead the brazilian attack, especially when scolari didn't take any natural number 9 as back ups .
rivaldo was coming off a terrible season with barcelona,  was deemed too old ,and not a good choice to play upfront with R9.
ronaldinho was viewed as inexperienced, hasn't played in a " top league " and just not good enough to play behind the strikers .
gilberto silva was largely an unknown quantity and  deemed not good enough to replace the injured emerson .
kleberson who ?
roque LOLior was a laughing stock .

and we know how that one ended....

Brazil were joint-third favourites for 2002, only behind Argentina and France.

odds makers will always have brazil in the top 5...after all they were the finalists in the previous one.

but people were pessimistic and highly skeptical of the team.

2002 was the lowest quality World Cup of all time though. France out in the group stages. Portugal out in the group stages. Netherlands out in the group stages. Argentina out in the group stages. Italy and Spain cheated out by South Korea. One of the worst Germany teams of all time where Oliver Kahn had to bail us out several times. Quarter finals with the likes of Senegal, Turkey, South Korea and USA in it. Brazil was pretty much the only big futbol nation that didn't inexplicably self-destruct or got destructed by refs. Plus just about everything went their way. The first time they went behind Ronaldinho scores that freekick goal which was intended to be a cross. Turkey red card Rivaldo playacting. Kahn pulling a Ballon d'Or performance the entire tournament and then in the final making that one howler. Brazil weren't great in 2002 but everything went their way. Can happen again this year but it won't. The 3 Rs deserved some heavenly luck. Hulk, Fred, Paulinho and Co. don't.

Fußball wrote:2002 was the lowest quality World Cup of all time though. France out in the group stages. Portugal out in the group stages. Netherlands out in the group stages. Argentina out in the group stages. Italy and Spain cheated out by South Korea. One of the worst Germany teams of all time where Oliver Kahn had to bail us out several times. Quarter finals with the likes of Senegal, Turkey, South Korea and USA in it. Brazil was pretty much the only big futbol nation that didn't inexplicably self-destruct or got destructed by refs. Plus just about everything went their way. The first time they went behind Ronaldinho scores that freekick goal which was intended to be a cross. Turkey red card Rivaldo playacting. Kahn pulling a Ballon d'Or performance the entire tournament and then in the final making that one howler. Brazil weren't great in 2002 but everything went their way. Can happen again this year but it won't. The 3 Rs deserved some heavenly luck. Hulk, Fred, Paulinho and Co. don't.

NED was there?

Vagner love would have done a better job

terrance511 wrote:
NED was there?

lel You're right. They weren't even there. Somehow thought that Bergkamp goal happened in 2002 but now I vaguely remember how we used to make fun of our neighbours for not even making it to the WC back in 2002.

Fussball is such a Brazil hater lol. That jealousy. I liked 2002 because of the shocking results tbh. It was much much better than 2010 and 1990 anyway so it was in no way the worst World Cup. It was very much an underdogs World Cup. Senegal and Turkey were great to watch.

M99 wrote:Fussball is such a Brazil hater lol.

Inaccurate! I'm a fan of joga bonito. But that has died a long time ago with Telê Santana. This current Brazil is just a mix of West Ham and Chelsea + bit of Nerman magic, coached by the Big Sam of intl. footy. The Dungas and Scolaris have destroyed what Brazil used to represent throughout their history and the Brazilians don't even care so they can gloat about their 5 or 6 or 7 World Cup stars. The man that is managing Brazil right now got relegated in 2012 with Palmeiras, playing with 3 DMs and scoring goals just from set pieces. We're at a point where Italy is a more expansive side than Brazil.

Worst team in the tournament.

Fußball wrote:2002 was the lowest quality World Cup of all time though. France out in the group stages. Portugal out in the group stages. Netherlands out in the group stages. Argentina out in the group stages. Italy and Spain cheated out by South Korea. One of the worst Germany teams of all time where Oliver Kahn had to bail us out several times. Quarter finals with the likes of Senegal, Turkey, South Korea and USA in it. Brazil was pretty much the only big futbol nation that didn't inexplicably self-destruct or got destructed by refs. Plus just about everything went their way. The first time they went behind Ronaldinho scores that freekick goal which was intended to be a cross. Turkey red card Rivaldo playacting. Kahn pulling a Ballon d'Or performance the entire tournament and then in the final making that one howler. Brazil weren't great in 2002 but everything went their way. Can happen again this year but it won't. The 3 Rs deserved some heavenly luck. Hulk, Fred, Paulinho and Co. don't.

Plus they got lucky as Oliver Neuville missed scoring the goal of the millenium by half an inch.

The other thing that was funny though, that Germany were just embarrassing the whole tounament, performances that made you want to go to the next room and hang yourself immediately, a Ballack goal somehow every tie kept them progressing, but in the final we were pretty pretty good for a change and lost lol.