http://www.scribd.com/doc/210342664/LFC-2013-Accounts-Submitted-to-Companies-House

I don't have the time to analyze the whole thing right now but looks like debt has decreased.

From the echo


Annual loss of £49.8m (£40.5m in previous accounts which covered a shorter, ten month period)

Turnover up to £206.1m (£169m in previous accounts)

Net bank debt down by £19.9m to £45.1 m (£65m in previous accounts)

Commercial revenues up to £97.7m (£63.9m in previous accounts)

Media revenues of £63.8 million (£62.8m in previous accounts)

Administrative expenses at £213.1million (£176.5m in previous accounts)

Interest payments £4.5 million (£3.7m in previous accounts)

Players net book value £121.8m (£110.5m previous accounts)

Interest free intercompany loan (via FSG) of £46.8 million to LFC

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-fc-accounts-show-club-6768260

I'm honestly just wondering what FSG's long term plans with LFC are, can anyone who knows anything about the red sox's and FSG, shed some light on what return they are getting on the red sox's if anything at all? Are they even looking to make money?

From what i can see FSG have put in

300mil - purchase
45 mil - current loan
God knows how much they've put in for transfer I'm going to estimate this at 75mil(massive ball park figure), this could also be 0 if it accounted for in the loans.

They've invested at a minimum 420 million, add the stadium rebuild, who knows how much that costs, I'm going to add an extra 75 for that and were nearly at 500mil.

Now the only way they could make a return is by selling to an oil tycoon.

Even with the stadium upgrade and more commercial deals, the ridiculous transfer market and increasing player salaries i can't see them relying on profits to get their return.

Now the only thing i can see them doing is taking the risk of being able to exploit value players like Sturridge, Cou and heck Suarez at 26 is still a bargain. If FSG are trying to emulate Arsenal's financial success and United's football success, all the best to them, don't know how sustainable it is in the long run. I'll give them some credit they've managed to do it to some extent this year.

Also would of loved to seen a comparison of the 2011-2012 figures for the full year, rather than a 10 month period, i think it paint's a different picture without the other 2 month's data.

The big negative is that £50m loss, especially since it's no one-off, but follows two £40m losses. This trend just cannot continue year after year, because FSG are not doing this for fun or out of passion. They must have a point somewhere where they will put the club up for sale if they fail to turn us (nearly) self-sustainable, like Arsenal or where Man United keep moving towards with their huge revenues.

However, the positive spin on that is that we are on course to return to the Champions League for next season, which should be at least £20m-£30m more revenue, for that year anyway. Also the nine per cent rise in revenue gives encouragement that we still have unfulfilled potential when it comes to our annual revenue, that it can still be grown.

It's also a positive that our debt to banks (or other third-party funders) has decreased, giving us a safer financial state and lower interest payments. FSG have given us interest-free loans à la Abramovich's loans to Chelsea. So, they have either put their own money into this or taken out loans for their parent company and given that money to LFC interest-free. If it's the latter option they might withdraw money from LFC in the future to pay for those debts, but at least it's not LFC directly who need to pay the interest on them and be liable for those loans.


Anyway, I'd say it's more positive than negative, due to the significant increase in commercial revenue and that FSG have been able to find ways of funding that have decreased the club's debt to third-parties, instead moving it to an interest-free debt to FSG.

mr-r34 wrote:I'm honestly just wondering what FSG's long term plans with LFC are, can anyone who knows anything about the red sox's and FSG, shed some light on what return they are getting on the red sox's if anything at all? Are they even looking to make money?

Like I said above, I don't think anyone thinks FSG are in this to lose money. Just like the Glazers didn't buy United out of passion. However, just like the Glazers, I'm sure Henry and co. have a long-term plan and targets, I'm talking about, say, five years from now before they expect LFC to become self-sustainable and really max out their revenue possibilities. The Anfield expansion (more matchday revenue), the new TV deal, back into the CL (for most seasons anyway), commercial opportunities. Basically, to do to us what the Glazers have done with United: maximize the revenue on all fronts, be prepared to spend a lot of money, hundreds of millions, until that happens and then have a self-sustainable club that's also successful in the sport and worth the amount of money you have invested in it and perhaps make profit year-in, year-out that they can withdraw (to pay back those interest-free loans to the parent company).

Most of the time you cannot buy a football club and expect to make money out of it, but with the biggest clubs in the world that can be possible. The Glazers have shown it with United. When they took over in 2005, United's revenue was €243m. Last season it was €424m (£363m and the club forecast this season's revenue to be between £420m-£430m).

And I believe it was the Glazers' example that was actually a big factor for FSG to buy Liverpool. The Glazers took out a shitload of debt on United to finance their takeover and initial spending - and as we may remember, their fans had that massive anti-Glazers campaign a few seasons ago, because they obviously did not understand the big picture, that their huge debt wasn't a gloom and doom issue as long as the club was able to increase their revenues so aggressively. Last year, United made a net profit of £146m. It's incredible, really. They have now become a self-sustainable money-making machine and are able to pay off their debt with their profits while still having plenty enough money to spend on the sporting side, too. This is what FSG are now trying to emulate and I'm sure they are prepared to invest a lot more into Liverpool FC over the coming years - but after that there must be financial success, too, the golden treasure at the end of the rainbow. If we fail to reach that, FSG will try to cut their losses by selling the club.

Hopefully we'll be able to make it, because that would be the ideal situation. A win-win between the owners and fans, a club that's self-sustainable and competing at the very top on the pitch. No more of those continuous grievances about ownership, no changing owners from one to other when somebody else fancies trying out their luck after the previous owner got tired of losing money. It would be the Holy Grail for a football club, the source of eternal success on and off the pitch.






How did I write such a long answer? lol

This thread has turned depressing somehow

We made an operating profit of £15m but were pushed into the heavy loss by the writing down of players' contracts, an accounting requirement, and a £13m loss on the sale of players.

We are currently paying 4.4m paid in bank interest and even that for the overdraft facility.  Under Hicks/Gillet we were paying over 40m a year in interest for debts incurred.

Our external debt down by 29 per cent to £45.1m and even that is interest free loan from FSG.

Our revenue has turnover increased by nine per cent to £206.1m . Will grow even healthier rate with the PL TV deal and CL revenue.Also think the shirt deals and the new sponsorships we signed last season havent been accounted yet

Our total wage bill 2012-13 (players and staff but players obviously most of it): £132m.Roughly equates to 63% which is very healthy.

Nothing to be depressed about really. Mostly positives imo

As for FFP

Ed Thompson ‏@edthompsn 12h
@JohhynE clubs can exclude wages in 2011/12 season for pre-June 2010 contracts. This helps clubs pass FFP.
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Ed Thompson ‏@edthompsn 12h
@JohhynE Liverpool will be in 76 as had a deficit in 2011/12. Not expected to fail Break Even though.wage exclusion means club will pass FFP

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/liverpools-latest-accounts-good-indifferent-3207256

FSG have made the Red Sox highly profitable, but continue to reinvest to increase their profile and profitability. They're in this long term, which means the initial purchase is (a) amortized over a very long period of time, and therefore can't be looked at as counting against their results and (b) will be offset by the value of the franchise as a whole, which has increased substantially since the purchase.

They're looking 5, 10, 20 years down the road on this and will judge their business intents accordingly.