Re: La Liga 2013/14 Discussion Mk. 2

by futbol Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:00 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Fussball so mad

Meh. I have nothing against crossing. I just wonder why people think he should manage Barca when the main weapon of his Athletic team is crossing the ball. What do they see? hmm

Pressing? Barca is not made to press anymore as of 2014.

Pique = snail.
Busquets = snail.
Xavi = 34 year old.
Fabregas = not 34 year old but running like he's 34 year old anyway, in Franchise's words.
Messi = lazy star player who presses when he wants.

Push them high up to press aggressively and Di Maria, Bale and Ronaldo will run into oceans of space on the break. This is not 2009 anymore where Barca are facing Ji Sung Park-Giggs midfield in a CL final or Gago-Drenthe-van der Vaart midfield in a Clasico with Raul upfront.

Bielsa the idealist did it with his Athletic team. Made them press aggressively against anyone no matter what. As a result they underachieved heavily and lingered in midtable, even when they had Llorente and Martinez. The only team that couldn't deal with it was Manchester United's midfield. Laughing

Atletico and Barca completely ripped them apart in 2 finals.

by Rebaño Sagrado Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:02 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:CB why don't you just switch streams?

Very impressed with Villareal, they've been better the entire match. They've built a team based on have-been prospects (GDS, Musacchio, Asenjo) and given them confidence again. To think they were playing in segunda last season

lol only thing Villareal gave Gio is playing time. He would perform for any team in Spain.

by Le Samourai Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:06 pm

Fuball takes this reverse jinx stuff past even Gil Laughing

by The Franchise Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:13 pm

I half agree with Futbol, half disagree.

I agree with his assessment of the players ability to press.

However, I dont agree that it matters Busquets especially, but also Pique are slow.

If you press effectively from the front, the ball they send over the top to Bale, Cristiano, whoever...wont ever make it that far. The passer woudnt even be able to see the run being made, because if the midfield and front were active, the passer would have his head down staring at the ball in fear of it being stolen.

by futbol Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:20 pm

Le Samourai wrote:Fuball takes this reverse jinx stuff past even Gil

I was serious. lol In 2014 Barca can't press like them olden days "Pepcelona". But not because Pep is the only one who can make his teams play high up the pitch and run. Circumstances have changed. The opponents have adapted their tactics and learned from Barcelona. 3 years ago no one except Barca pressed in Europe. No English team, not Real Madrid, Dortmund was irrelevant, Bayern under Klismann and van Gaal was irrelevant etc. You only had a few park the bus and counter physical teams like Chelsea and Inter that threatened Barcelona and Manchester United who were a good team but with a very weak midfield which suited Barca perfectly. Since then teams have gained in quality and tactics. Yet people somehow expect Xavi or Iniesta to take the ball off of Yaya's, Silva's, Kompany's feet within seconds and then blame the coach that he doesn't implement proper pressing when it doesn't work that easily.

by futbol Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:30 pm

The Franchise wrote:I half agree with Futbol, half disagree.

I agree with his assessment of the players ability to press.

However, I dont agree that it matters Busquets especially, but also Pique are slow.

If you press effectively from the front, the ball they send over the top to Bale, Cristiano, whoever...wont ever make it that far. The passer woudnt even be able to see the run being made, because if the midfield and front were active, the passer would have his head down staring at the ball in fear of it being stolen.

Yeah, but a player like Modric for example isn't that easy to dispossess. He can navigate around a press, play it off to Xabi who will play a pinpoint 40 yard pass to Ronaldo or Bale, Ramos and Varane are ballplaying centerbacks etc. Just because you breath at them doesn't mean they'll panick and hoof the ball as it happened in the past.

Pressing is a very risky stategy. Watch these highlights under Pep.

Arsenal with one counter after another after they breach the press.

Madrid totally raping us once they actually decided to attack instead of putting Pepe in the middle and sit back and wait.

If we played like that under Martino all hell would break loose.

by Mr Nick09 Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:35 pm

Oh higuain :smh:

by The Franchise Mon Mar 17, 2014 11:48 pm

You dont need to post videos, I remember all that real well.

Anyway, if you also remember that same Arsenal team were camped inside their own penalty area for well over 25 minutes (because of our pressure) in without question the most one sided 0-0 (for that time period) in football history Laughing

That same Arsenal team who won that game.

Yes, no question, some players can turn out of pressure...however, its even worse (over time) to give those same players (usually) time on the ball to turn and face the target, then force us back and then force us to run.

You make them navigate traffic over and over again and they will lose the ball and fatigue themselves in the process.

The real reason Arsenal won that 2-1 game was not them breaking our pressure, it was them coming on strong on the end because for periods of the game they were able to keep hold of the ball and made us run for a change.

All I really saying is, I wouldnt argue the merits of pressing. Like any defensive idea, it can be undone, but overall nearly every team has elements of high pressure in their game..for good reason.

by Gil Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:34 am

How on earth did Madrid not win that Copa match?

by Doc Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:21 am

Dearest me Higgy...

by Arquitecto Tue Mar 18, 2014 5:05 am

Valverde does not play long-ball or cross-football as that statistic is skewed by the use of Susaeta who has an outlet outside right role in which his sole use of width also transcends to a bevy or crosses that are not part of the tactical use of Athletic unless you count Benat's chip long-balls or Balenziaga's crosses.

I don't think he is the man for Barca simply because he is too tactical and inward in his own semantics to which can look attractive, but will result likely in constant tinkering within a philosophy Barca hope to evolve upon. Nevertheless the finest tactician in La Liga after Ancelotti.

@Mole: Oliver Torres isn't worth the hype. Not much more to say about that.

by Onyx Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:28 pm

The cost to Barcelona of renewing Lionel Messi’s contract has been put at €250m by reports from Spain.

AS claims that Messi’s camp is pushing for a salary of €25m on a five-year deal to make Messi the highest-paid player in the world.

Barca and Messi are currently discussing a seventh contract renewal in nine years and are said by AS to be far apart on the numbers.

AS also suggests Messi was made offers last summer by other clubs, while the arrival of Neymar and his complicated contractual arrangement is what has spurred the Messi camp to push for a sharp increase in salary.

It is thought Neymar is paid between €18m and €20m per year through a variety of methods, all contributing to make the Brazil international the highest-paid player in the squad.

Messi is said to earn €16m per year but it is felt that if Messi is the best player in the world, he should be paid accordingly.

Barca vice president Javier Faus, who has responsibility for the club’s finances, is understood to have a budget of €60m to spend this summer plus whatever is recouped in player sales, but that €60m includes incoming transfers as well as renewed contracts.

But both parties are said to be happy to wait to sign a new deal - Barca because they want to delay adding the cost of the contract onto their books and Messi because he fully expects to put pen to paper eventually.

AS add that the matter of image rights is now the main stumbling block to the contract being finalised.

by Onyx Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:50 pm

A judge in Valencia announced that they have opened an investigation into Valencia CF’s €40 million transfer of striker David Villa to Barcelona in the summer of 2010, where Bancaja and Valencia CF must explain the details of the operation, after Andrés Sanchís, a lawyer representing two shareholders, brought the complaint against the Bank and the club’s former directors.

According to Las Provincias, the LFP will hand over all documentation relating to the transfer and José Luis Tamargo, former representative of the footballer; Victor Oñate, the representative who participated in the operation; Mariola Hoyos, former President of the Foundation; Isabel Buigues, the ex-secretaria of the Board of Trustees; Professor Rafael Molina, and the former Director of the Instituto Valenciano de finance, Quique Perez Boada to all testify as to their involvement in the transfer.

This the final part of a lengthy operation by Sanchis against the former directors of the club, demanding clarification of the club’s increase in capital as the former President of Valencia CF, Manuel Llorente, Vice President Javier Gómez, the former President of the Foundation, Társilo Piles and the former President of Bancaja, José Luis Olivas have been accused of fraud, falsifying public document, corporate crime, alteration of financial documents and embezzlement of public funds.

by Freeza Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:04 pm

Keep gettin' them checks Messi Proud

by Zealous Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:12 pm

Messi you bleed them dry if you have to. Go get what you're worth my son Proud

by Kuru Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:20 pm

Oh my god Higgy..I had to stop watching till the end after the third miss...

by Gil Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:36 am

Madrid will easily destroy Barca in my opinion. They've had their number since that 2011 Copa Del Rey final.

by halamadrid2 Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:46 am

Depends if he facks up the line up like he has this season and what kind of result he wants us to get

Judging by the guys who were rested we are most possibly going to play our best and most adventurous line up

Neymar+Alba vs Bale+Carvajal will be fun

Think we will nick this 2-1. first goal early in thefirst half, barca equalise just at the end of the first half and we get the winner from a corner.

Ronaldo, Pepe, Ramos, Benz/Morata in the box against the midgets, bring on the set pieces Proud

by BarrileteCosmico Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:40 pm

La Liga currently has 5/7 clubs still alive in Europe. The closest leagues are Germany, England, Portugal and France with 2 each.

Or put it another way, La Liga has as many teams alive in Europe as Germany, Italy and England combined Laughing

by The_Badger Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:49 pm

Gil wrote:Madrid will easily destroy Barca in my opinion. They've had their number since that 2011 Copa Del Rey final.

And yet lost their meeting earlier this season. scratch

by McAgger Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:52 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:La Liga currently has 5/7 clubs still alive in Europe. The closest leagues are Germany, England, Portugal and France with 2 each.

Or put it another way, La Liga has as many teams alive in Europe as Germany, Italy and England combined

And yet 1/7 with the only realistic chance of winning the respective European trophy.

by BarrileteCosmico Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:53 pm

Which club would that be?

by McAgger Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:01 pm

You are an intelligent guy, I'll let you figure it out.

by Jack Daniels Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:02 pm

McAgger wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:La Liga currently has 5/7 clubs still alive in Europe. The closest leagues are Germany, England, Portugal and France with 2 each.

Or put it another way, La Liga has as many teams alive in Europe as Germany, Italy and England combined

And yet 1/7 with the only realistic chance of winning the respective European trophy.

Doesn't take the fact that the Spanish have done a better job.

by Doc Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:11 pm

They are doing well this European campaign so far even with Valencia having the "worst transfer window ever". Of course, it's just the QF and all of them can be knocked out but still. Kudos to La Liga so far...

by Khaled Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:17 pm

Amazing how Barcelona are so underrated this season... see you in May!

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