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- El Rey León | Fernando Llorente #14
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22 posters
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Re: - El Rey León | Fernando Llorente #14
by free_cat Mon 21 Oct - 10:54
With my list, I wasn't trying to prove that Italians are worse in Spain than spaniards in Italy. I was trying to prove that all foreign signings have a big amount of players that flop. This happens with every nationality, even national players too, but maybe less because they are more well known by coaches and DT.FilthyLuca wrote:Figure what? and then you wonder why i think your in your feelings. what does Italians in La liga have to do with how Spanish players fair in Serie A? what are you trying to prove? i didn't say nor imply Italians are superior, simply that the style of play in both leagues, for better or worse, is different, and success in one isn't conducive to success in the other. and generally the dutch (van basten, rijkaard, gullit, seedorf, Kluivert, bergkamp, davids) the germans (bierhoff, habler, rummenidge, mathauss) the Brazilians (i dont have enough space), have much more success in Italy than the Spanish.free_cat wrote:Here a list of all italian players in la liga:
Christian Abbiati – Atlético Madrid – 2007-08 FLOP
Demetrio Albertini – Atlético Madrid, FC Barcelona – 2002-03, 2004-05 FLOP
Nicola Berti – Alavés – 1998-99 FLOP
Angelo Bollano – Real Murcia – 1950-51 ??
Aridex Calligaris – Real Sociedad – 1949-50??
Fabio Cannavaro – Real Madrid – 2006-09 SEMI FLOP
Amedeo Carboni – Valencia CF – 1997-06 TOP
Antonio Cassano – Real Madrid – 2005-07 FLOP
Paolo Castellini – Real Betis – 2004-06 ???
Bruno Cirillo Levante ??
Francesco Coco – FC Barcelona – 2001-02 FLOP
Bernardo Corradi – Valencia CF – 2004-05 FLOP
Sergio Del Pinto – UE Lleida – 1950-51 ??
Morgan De Sanctis – Sevilla FC – 2007-08 FLOP
Marco Di Vaio – Valencia CF – 2004-06 FLOP
Cristiano Doni – RCD Mallorca – 2005-06 FLOP
Stefano Fiore – Valencia CF – 2004-05 FLOP
Mark Iuliano – RCD Mallorca – 2004-06 ??
Marco Lanna – UD Salamanca, Real Zaragoza – 1997-01 ??
Damiano Longhi – Hércules CF – 1996-97 ??
Cristiano Lucarelli – Valencia CF – 1998-99 FLOP
Enzo Maresca – Sevilla FC – 2005-09 TOP
Emiliano Moretti – Valencia CF – 2004-09 FLOP
Christian Panucci – Real Madrid – 1996-99 TOP
Alessandro Pierini – Racing – 2004-05 FLOP
Alessandro Potenza – RCD Mallorca – 2005-06 FLOP
Christian Riganò – Levante UD – 2007-08 FLOP
Giuseppe Rossi – Villarreal CF – 2007-09 TOP
Michele Serena – Atlético Madrid – 1998-99 ??
Stefano Sorrentino – Recreativo de Huelva – 2007-08??
Marco Storari – Levante UD – 2007-08 SEMI FLOP
Alessio Tacchinardi – Villarreal CF – 2005-07 SEMI FLOP
Francesco Tavano – Valencia CF – 2006-07 FLOP
Damiano Tommasi – Levante UD – 2006-08 FLOP
Moreno Torricelli – RCD Espanyol – 2003-04 SEMI FLOP
Stefano Torrisi – Atlético Madrid – 1998-99 ??
Giorgio Venturin – Atlético Madrid – 1998-00 ??
Christian Vieri – Atlético Madrid – 1997-98 TOP
Gianluca Zambrotta – FC Barcelona – 2006-08 FLOP
Only five italian players out of 40 really did well, and one of them is only half italian (Giusepp Rossi).
Same proportion, or worse, than the list of spaniards in Italy.
Go figure.
and don't give me this sample size nonsense, there aren't that many more dutch players or any others for that matter, in serie a than Spanish players.
You say that Germans, Brazilians and Dutch are more successful than spaniards in Italy. I'm pretty sure that's bullsshit because also much more Germans, Dutch and especially Brasilians have played in italy than spaniards. We would need a full list and compare, otherwise you are just going by anecdote.
Also, even if spaniards had been less successful in Italy in proportion than other nationalities, that wouldn't mean that "spaniards flop in Italy because of spanish style", but most likely (and what I'm arguing) that mostly non TOP quality spaniards are let go from Spain, because TOP TOP spanish players stay in Spain and play for Barça, Madrid or the third best team instead of going abroad.
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Re: - El Rey León | Fernando Llorente #14
by FilthyLuca Mon 21 Oct - 11:09
First, that list I put up was ALL the Spaniards, and if you took the time to do some research, youll find that the amount of germans and dutch are within single digits of the Spanish player. the dutch have actually had less players in serie A than the Spanish, and have won multiple awards for being the best players in Europe, while playing in serie a. Brazilians don't count, because they are everywhere.free_cat wrote:With my list, I wasn't trying to prove that Italians are worse in Spain than spaniards in Italy. I was trying to prove that all foreign signings have a big amount of players that flop. This happens with every nationality, even national players too, but maybe less because they are more well known by coaches and DT.FilthyLuca wrote:Figure what? and then you wonder why i think your in your feelings. what does Italians in La liga have to do with how Spanish players fair in Serie A? what are you trying to prove? i didn't say nor imply Italians are superior, simply that the style of play in both leagues, for better or worse, is different, and success in one isn't conducive to success in the other. and generally the dutch (van basten, rijkaard, gullit, seedorf, Kluivert, bergkamp, davids) the germans (bierhoff, habler, rummenidge, mathauss) the Brazilians (i dont have enough space), have much more success in Italy than the Spanish.free_cat wrote:Here a list of all italian players in la liga:
Christian Abbiati – Atlético Madrid – 2007-08 FLOP
Demetrio Albertini – Atlético Madrid, FC Barcelona – 2002-03, 2004-05 FLOP
Nicola Berti – Alavés – 1998-99 FLOP
Angelo Bollano – Real Murcia – 1950-51 ??
Aridex Calligaris – Real Sociedad – 1949-50??
Fabio Cannavaro – Real Madrid – 2006-09 SEMI FLOP
Amedeo Carboni – Valencia CF – 1997-06 TOP
Antonio Cassano – Real Madrid – 2005-07 FLOP
Paolo Castellini – Real Betis – 2004-06 ???
Bruno Cirillo Levante ??
Francesco Coco – FC Barcelona – 2001-02 FLOP
Bernardo Corradi – Valencia CF – 2004-05 FLOP
Sergio Del Pinto – UE Lleida – 1950-51 ??
Morgan De Sanctis – Sevilla FC – 2007-08 FLOP
Marco Di Vaio – Valencia CF – 2004-06 FLOP
Cristiano Doni – RCD Mallorca – 2005-06 FLOP
Stefano Fiore – Valencia CF – 2004-05 FLOP
Mark Iuliano – RCD Mallorca – 2004-06 ??
Marco Lanna – UD Salamanca, Real Zaragoza – 1997-01 ??
Damiano Longhi – Hércules CF – 1996-97 ??
Cristiano Lucarelli – Valencia CF – 1998-99 FLOP
Enzo Maresca – Sevilla FC – 2005-09 TOP
Emiliano Moretti – Valencia CF – 2004-09 FLOP
Christian Panucci – Real Madrid – 1996-99 TOP
Alessandro Pierini – Racing – 2004-05 FLOP
Alessandro Potenza – RCD Mallorca – 2005-06 FLOP
Christian Riganò – Levante UD – 2007-08 FLOP
Giuseppe Rossi – Villarreal CF – 2007-09 TOP
Michele Serena – Atlético Madrid – 1998-99 ??
Stefano Sorrentino – Recreativo de Huelva – 2007-08??
Marco Storari – Levante UD – 2007-08 SEMI FLOP
Alessio Tacchinardi – Villarreal CF – 2005-07 SEMI FLOP
Francesco Tavano – Valencia CF – 2006-07 FLOP
Damiano Tommasi – Levante UD – 2006-08 FLOP
Moreno Torricelli – RCD Espanyol – 2003-04 SEMI FLOP
Stefano Torrisi – Atlético Madrid – 1998-99 ??
Giorgio Venturin – Atlético Madrid – 1998-00 ??
Christian Vieri – Atlético Madrid – 1997-98 TOP
Gianluca Zambrotta – FC Barcelona – 2006-08 FLOP
Only five italian players out of 40 really did well, and one of them is only half italian (Giusepp Rossi).
Same proportion, or worse, than the list of spaniards in Italy.
Go figure.
and don't give me this sample size nonsense, there aren't that many more dutch players or any others for that matter, in serie a than Spanish players.
You say that Germans, Brazilians and Dutch are more successful than spaniards in Italy. I'm pretty sure that's bullsshit because also much more Germans, Dutch and especially Brasilians have played in italy than spaniards. We would need a full list and compare, otherwise you are just going by anecdote.
Also, even if spaniards had been less successful in Italy in proportion than other nationalities, that wouldn't mean that "spaniards flop in Italy because of spanish style", but most likely (and what I'm arguing) that mostly non TOP quality spaniards are let go from Spain, because TOP TOP spanish players stay in Spain and play for Barça, Madrid or the third best team instead of going abroad.
Second, that whole stay in spain stuff may be true recently, but in the 80s, 90s, and early 2000s, Italy was the most competitive league, and had all the money and that's not an opinion, so i dont know what your talking about. or they just loved their country so much they would by pass going to the most profitable league in the world.
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Re: - El Rey León | Fernando Llorente #14
by free_cat Mon 21 Oct - 11:35
It doesn't matter if Italy was the best league in the world, still top players stayed in Spain as well as top English players stayed in england.
Please, post the dutch and german players in Italy and we compare. You could only name a few really good german players, so in any case it would seem that the anomaly is with the dutch. Considering they are a small league that exports their talent, it's not weird.
Please, post the dutch and german players in Italy and we compare. You could only name a few really good german players, so in any case it would seem that the anomaly is with the dutch. Considering they are a small league that exports their talent, it's not weird.
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Re: - El Rey León | Fernando Llorente #14
by FilthyLuca Mon 21 Oct - 11:39
Top players go where the money is, that's why the flock to the prem and la liga, and rightfully so. England was purgatory, they just don't produce very good players in general. yeah theres always exceptions, butfor the most part, if your a top talent, you wanna get paid like it.free_cat wrote:It doesn't matter if Italy was the best league in the world, still top players stayed in Spain as well as top English players stayed in england.
I gotta get to work, but if you let me know when your going to be online again, id like keep this back and forth going.
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Re: - El Rey León | Fernando Llorente #14
by sportsczy Mon 21 Oct - 11:42
are we talking Dutch and German players in Serie A historically? Because there were plenty.
Today, Seria A can't afford to pay top money and Bundi pays just as well. So German players either leave to teams willing to pay them more or stay home.
It's always been like that. Seria A was the best league in the world in the past because it had the most money... there was no other reason.
Today, Seria A can't afford to pay top money and Bundi pays just as well. So German players either leave to teams willing to pay them more or stay home.
It's always been like that. Seria A was the best league in the world in the past because it had the most money... there was no other reason.
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Re: - El Rey León | Fernando Llorente #14
by sportsczy Mon 21 Oct - 11:48
Current players in Serie A:
Spanish
Raul Albiol – Napoli – 2013–14
Alonso – Fiorentina – 2013–14
Borja Valero – Fiorentina – 2012–14
José Callejón – Napoli – 2013–14
José Ángel Crespo – Bologna – 2011–12, 2013-14
Joaquín – Fiorentina – 2013-14
Keko – Catania – 2012–14
Fernando Llorente – Juventus – 2013–14
Pedro Obiang – Sampdoria – 2010–11, 2012–14
Pepe Reina – Napoli – 2013–14
German
Marvin Compper – Fiorentina – 2012–14
Giuseppe Gemiti – Udinese, Chievo Verona, Novara, Livorno – 2002–04, 2005–06, 2011–12, 2013-14
Mario Gomez – Fiorentina – 2013–14
Miroslav Klose – Lazio – 2011–14
Alexander Merkel – Milan, Genoa, Udinese – 2010–13
Shkodran Mustafi – Sampdoria – 2012–14
French
Jonathan Biabiany – Parma, Inter, Sampdoria – 2009–14
Michaël Ciani – Lazio – 2012–14
Sebastian De Maio – Brescia, Genoa – 2010–11, 2013-14
Nicolas Frey – Chievo Verona – 2008–14
Thomas Heurtaux – Udinese – 2012–14
Abdoulay Konko – Siena, Genoa, Lazio – 2006–08, 2010–14
Philippe Mexès – Roma, Milan – 2004–14
Mbaye Niang – Milan – 2012–14
Paul Pogba – Juventus – 2012–14
Cyril Théréau – Chievo Verona – 2010–14
Adil Rami - Milan - 2013-2014
Netherlands
Nigel de Jong – Milan – 2012–14
Urby Emanuelson – Milan – 2010–14
Kevin Strootman – Roma – 2013–14
Spanish
Raul Albiol – Napoli – 2013–14
Alonso – Fiorentina – 2013–14
Borja Valero – Fiorentina – 2012–14
José Callejón – Napoli – 2013–14
José Ángel Crespo – Bologna – 2011–12, 2013-14
Joaquín – Fiorentina – 2013-14
Keko – Catania – 2012–14
Fernando Llorente – Juventus – 2013–14
Pedro Obiang – Sampdoria – 2010–11, 2012–14
Pepe Reina – Napoli – 2013–14
German
Marvin Compper – Fiorentina – 2012–14
Giuseppe Gemiti – Udinese, Chievo Verona, Novara, Livorno – 2002–04, 2005–06, 2011–12, 2013-14
Mario Gomez – Fiorentina – 2013–14
Miroslav Klose – Lazio – 2011–14
Alexander Merkel – Milan, Genoa, Udinese – 2010–13
Shkodran Mustafi – Sampdoria – 2012–14
French
Jonathan Biabiany – Parma, Inter, Sampdoria – 2009–14
Michaël Ciani – Lazio – 2012–14
Sebastian De Maio – Brescia, Genoa – 2010–11, 2013-14
Nicolas Frey – Chievo Verona – 2008–14
Thomas Heurtaux – Udinese – 2012–14
Abdoulay Konko – Siena, Genoa, Lazio – 2006–08, 2010–14
Philippe Mexès – Roma, Milan – 2004–14
Mbaye Niang – Milan – 2012–14
Paul Pogba – Juventus – 2012–14
Cyril Théréau – Chievo Verona – 2010–14
Adil Rami - Milan - 2013-2014
Netherlands
Nigel de Jong – Milan – 2012–14
Urby Emanuelson – Milan – 2010–14
Kevin Strootman – Roma – 2013–14
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Re: - El Rey León | Fernando Llorente #14
by FilthyLuca Mon 21 Oct - 12:09
theres a reason for it having the most money, but I get the feeling from the post you don't quite understand the argument, but the more opinions the merrier. again I have to go, so we can pick this up tonight or tomorrow.sportsczy wrote:are we talking Dutch and German players in Serie A historically? Because there were plenty.
Today, Seria A can't afford to pay top money and Bundi pays just as well. So German players either leave to teams willing to pay them more or stay home.
It's always been like that. Seria A was the best league in the world in the past because it had the most money... there was no other reason.
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Re: - El Rey León | Fernando Llorente #14
by sportsczy Mon 21 Oct - 12:18
I mean of course there's more reason to having the most money:
- Best stadiums
- Fans willing to spend money
- International brand
- Good footy reputation
- Desirable location
- Good business models
- Good youth academies
These all go into it. Serie A has just lost its competitive edge compared to other places... Everything in the world goes in cycles though. So i'm sure sometime in the future, Serie A will have a good period again. It will depend on whether corruption can be kept under control and footy becomes a comparatively attractive investment in Italy.
Reason Qatar jumped on PSG is that it only cost them 50 mil to buy the club... and they overpaid. So most of their money could go towards building the team as opposed to buying it. Lille, which is a great club in France, is on the market for 7 mil euros today. As an investor, it would look to me that buying a Ligue 1 team is less risky since i have to pay so much less. The reason i gave this example is that Ligue made the price to entry a competitive advantage for investors. What is Serie A's at the moment?
- Best stadiums
- Fans willing to spend money
- International brand
- Good footy reputation
- Desirable location
- Good business models
- Good youth academies
These all go into it. Serie A has just lost its competitive edge compared to other places... Everything in the world goes in cycles though. So i'm sure sometime in the future, Serie A will have a good period again. It will depend on whether corruption can be kept under control and footy becomes a comparatively attractive investment in Italy.
Reason Qatar jumped on PSG is that it only cost them 50 mil to buy the club... and they overpaid. So most of their money could go towards building the team as opposed to buying it. Lille, which is a great club in France, is on the market for 7 mil euros today. As an investor, it would look to me that buying a Ligue 1 team is less risky since i have to pay so much less. The reason i gave this example is that Ligue made the price to entry a competitive advantage for investors. What is Serie A's at the moment?
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Re: - El Rey León | Fernando Llorente #14
by free_cat Wed 6 Nov - 7:42
'Spaniards can't do well in Italy '
Lol. Even llorente is doing well considering how little he has played.
Lol. Even llorente is doing well considering how little he has played.
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Re: - El Rey León | Fernando Llorente #14
by FilthyLuca Wed 6 Nov - 9:38
I didn't say they COULDNT, I said they DONT, implying they hadn't, which is 100% true. stop acting so butthurt. First you put up that list of Italian players in La Liga, which had nothing to do with the argument, and now your misquoting me even though its in writing for all to see. They've historically been shite in Serie A and that's all there is to it.free_cat wrote:'Spaniards can't do well in Italy '
Lol. Even llorente is doing well considering how little he has played.
Even when I first wrote it in the other thread, I said I hope im wrong but Spanish players have historically been bad in Serie A so he'll PROBABLY be gone by december, LET IT GO, you sound real petty right now.
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Re: - El Rey León | Fernando Llorente #14
by free_cat Sun 10 Nov - 20:08
And another good game from Llorente.
Owning FilthyLuca even more.
PD. You listed current spaniards to support your argument,clearly not mentioning the past only, you were trying to say they don't do well now too.
Owning FilthyLuca even more.
PD. You listed current spaniards to support your argument,clearly not mentioning the past only, you were trying to say they don't do well now too.
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Re: - El Rey León | Fernando Llorente #14
by FilthyLuca Mon 11 Nov - 0:24
Now I'm starting to think your slow.
your comprehension skills are very worrisome.
those players were named just like Luis Suarez and del sol are, because in general they don't do well in serie a, which is still obviously true. You keep trying to make it something it isn't.
your comprehension skills are very worrisome.
those players were named just like Luis Suarez and del sol are, because in general they don't do well in serie a, which is still obviously true. You keep trying to make it something it isn't.
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Re: - El Rey León | Fernando Llorente #14
by free_cat Mon 11 Nov - 5:00
Sure... like Llorente!FilthyLuca wrote: because in general they don't do well in serie a, which is still obviously true.
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Re: - El Rey León | Fernando Llorente #14
by FilthyLuca Mon 11 Nov - 9:50
Ur right lil buddy, llorente, callejon, and Valero have been decent so therefore the Spanish HAVENT been crap in serie a over the last 60 years. And are right on par with the ballon d'ore winners and leading scorers from France Holland, Germany, and Brazil. damn you llorente!
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Re: - El Rey León | Fernando Llorente #14
by Cassius Fri 15 Nov - 7:54
LLorente, as much as i like him and his recent performances he still hasnt really blown me away.
He's still got a long long way to go before he gets his starting spot on lock down.
One moment he's Zlatan and the next he's Matri.
He's still got a long long way to go before he gets his starting spot on lock down.
One moment he's Zlatan and the next he's Matri.
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Re: - El Rey León | Fernando Llorente #14
by djfawnz Sun 24 Nov - 12:14
nigga is ON fire now, we cant deny that.
and its not even the goals, is his link-up and hold up play has been astonishing.
and its not even the goals, is his link-up and hold up play has been astonishing.
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Re: - El Rey León | Fernando Llorente #14
by elm_baraja_shaman Sun 24 Nov - 13:07
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKNckKHNT38#t=183
amazing.....
amazing.....
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Re: - El Rey León | Fernando Llorente #14
by harhar11 Sun 24 Nov - 16:00
But it's a fact that most top spanish player stayed in spain during their prime. It's only recently that they have started to leave for other leagues.FilthyLuca wrote:Top players go where the money is, that's why the flock to the prem and la liga, and rightfully so. England was purgatory, they just don't produce very good players in general. yeah theres always exceptions, butfor the most part, if your a top talent, you wanna get paid like it.free_cat wrote:It doesn't matter if Italy was the best league in the world, still top players stayed in Spain as well as top English players stayed in england.
I gotta get to work, but if you let me know when your going to be online again, id like keep this back and forth going.
I am sure that if you list a top 50 spanish players of all time, most of them would be player who played their prime in La Liga.
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Llorente: 'Juve not qualified yet'
by DeviAngel Wed 27 Nov - 23:03
ernando Llorente is glad of the 3-1 win over Copenhagen, but warned Juventus “aren’t qualified yet.”
The Bianconeri will go through to the Champions League knockouts as long as they avoid defeat away to Galatasaray.
“We aren’t qualified yet. We did what we had to tonight, but there is nothing official now,” the striker told Sport Mediaset.
“We have to go to Turkey and it will be a very difficult game, so we must play well in order to qualify.
“The Turkish fans are very passionate in support of their team and it is never easy to play in Istanbul.”
There was a scare when Copenhagen managed to equalise, but Arturo Vidal completed his hat-trick to secure victory.
“We knew it would not be easy, as it was also a very complicated game for us in Denmark. Like the team, I am improving game by game. We are a very united squad.”
The Bianconeri will go through to the Champions League knockouts as long as they avoid defeat away to Galatasaray.
“We aren’t qualified yet. We did what we had to tonight, but there is nothing official now,” the striker told Sport Mediaset.
“We have to go to Turkey and it will be a very difficult game, so we must play well in order to qualify.
“The Turkish fans are very passionate in support of their team and it is never easy to play in Istanbul.”
There was a scare when Copenhagen managed to equalise, but Arturo Vidal completed his hat-trick to secure victory.
“We knew it would not be easy, as it was also a very complicated game for us in Denmark. Like the team, I am improving game by game. We are a very united squad.”
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Re: - El Rey León | Fernando Llorente #14
by elm_baraja_shaman Sun 1 Dec - 15:33
spanish players cannot do well in serie A they said...
= 4 goals in last 4 games...
= 4 goals in last 4 games...
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Re: - El Rey León | Fernando Llorente #14
by DeviAngel Sun 1 Dec - 15:38
6 goals in the lat 7 games and two assists.elm_baraja_shaman wrote:spanish players cannot do well in serie A they said...
= 4 goals in last 4 games...
I smell a Trezeguet
Last edited by DeviAngel on Sun 1 Dec - 15:51; edited 1 time in total
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Re: - El Rey León | Fernando Llorente #14
by juvealbanian Sun 1 Dec - 15:52
''my head hurts...so many goals scored''
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Re: - El Rey León | Fernando Llorente #14
by free_cat Sun 1 Dec - 18:50
Don't aim that high, Llorente is a very good player, but Trezeguet was a legend.DeviAngel wrote:6 goals in the lat 7 games and two assists.elm_baraja_shaman wrote:spanish players cannot do well in serie A they said...
= 4 goals in last 4 games...
I smell a Trezeguet
Anyway, I think it's time for admitting some prejudices from some posters in this thread (FilthyLuca...)
I just don't understand why it took so long for Conte to play Llorente...
Such a funny goal, with these two weird headers from Llorente.
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Re: - El Rey León | Fernando Llorente #14
by marottalad Sun 1 Dec - 19:44
his goal reminded me of trezeguet's winner vs torino in extra time 
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