Who the hell is Lovern? lmao

Lovren*

iftikhar wrote:

Red Alert wrote:3/4 of our signings since 2010. lmao

1. Aquilani (or was he 2009?)
2. Poulsen
3. PFK
4. Joe Cole
5. Carroll
6. Downing
7. Borini
8. Alberto
9. Lovren
10. Markovic (for that price)
11. Lallana (again for that absurd price)
12. Balotelli (if you're not going to use him correctly/panic sign him and then isolate him)

Those are just from the top of my head. I'm sure there's quite a bit more.

I'm surprised you omitted Rodgers

mr-r34 wrote:I'm surprised you omitted Rodgers

mr-r34 wrote:I'm surprised you omitted Rodgers

I guess that was bad beyond tolerance

Seriously though every summer after 2007 we've had dreadful transfer windows.

2008 Summer:
-Robbie Keane
-Dossena
-Degen
-N'Gog
-Riera (effective his first season, shit his second)
-Cavalieri (good number 2 but never got a chance cuz Pepe was boss)

Verdict: Dreadful

2009 Summer
-Aquilani  (Likable, but injury prone and never good enough to clean Alonso's boots let alone be a replacement for him)
-Johnson (actually good in his first 3 seasons but injury prone and still a downgrade on Arbeloa)
-Kyrgiakos (likable but shit, was never of the quality to come in and join a team that just missed out on the title)

Verdict: Dreadful (mostly because of lack of signings and lack of proper strengthening)

2010 Summer
Jovanovic
Danny Wilson
Poulsen
Konchesky
Joe Cole
Brad Jones
Shelvey
Raul Meireles (only decent signing, was great for us that season)

Verdict: Unbelievably out of this world Dreadful

2011 Summer
-Adam
-Downing
-Doni
-Coates  
-Henderson (really not ready to be playing for LFC in his first season but after 2 years it looked like a bargain)
-Bellamy (great signing that summer, our only truly effective signing for that 11-12 season)
-Enrique (great first 6 months but ever since we've realized he's probably not good enough for a top 4 starting LB)

-Piss shit dreadful (had a lot of money to spend and completely threw it away)

2012 Summer
-Borini
-Assaidi
-Allen   (so average ffs)
-Sahin
-Yesil  

Verdict - Dreadful (specially because we were direly in need of a striker and beat around the bush for goddam Dempsey when Sturridge was already available and willing to come)

2013 Summer
-Aspas
-Alberto  
-Ilori    (though jury still out and might look a bargain in the future)
-Moses
-Cissokho
-Kolo (good signing, but prone to Koloing it up on too many occasions, as he did vs WBA)
-Sakho (really underwhelming first season, part of a defense that cost us the title, but finally now showing good worth)
-Mignolet (decent in his first season, looking like he's really not up to par to be a starter for us)

Verdict - Dreadful

2014 Summer
-Lovren
-Balotelli
-Lambert
-Manquillo - talented, but meh too young to actually add quality to starting XI
-Lallana (took 6 months to adjust, but hopefully looking like a succesful signing)
-Markovic (took 6 months to adjust, but hopefully looking like a succesful signing)
-Moreno  (took 6 months to adjust, but hopefully looking like a succesful signing)
-Emre Can (best signing of the summer, still took 3 months or so to adjust but was given the chance was producing much quicker than the rest)
-Origi N/A

Verdict - felt like end of the world dreadful, but less dreadful than all those mentioned above



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Players in red above are still here at the club this season

Johnson (all want him gone, contract over in summer)
Jones (all want him gone, contract over in summer)
Henderson
Enrique (will be sold soon, deadwood)
Borini (most want him gone, deadwood)
Allen (jury is out, I want him gone)
Yesil (injuries ruined, will most likely be leaving sooner or later)
Kolo (contract out in summer, not needed anymore)
Sakho
Mignolet (almost everyone in agreement he should be gone)
Lovren (dreadful, please get rid of this pest)
Balotelli (  )
Manquillo (will most likely leave after his loan is over)
Lambert (waste of a squad space)
Lallana
Markovic
Moreno
Emre Can

Bolded players (+ some loan returnees) are the only ones from 7 years of summer transfer windows that we actually can foresee being here next season and actually quality to the team.

Not giving up on Allen or Lovren yet, but yeah we've had our fair share of bad windows. I think they've not been so bad with Rodgers to be honest getting guys like Coutinho (who looks like our best player most nights now), Sturridge, Sakho, Lallana, Markovic, Moreno, Can, Markovic, Origi, etc...ignoring money spent and that

Still waiting to see what he can do this summer to really see what he's made of in terms of transfers. For me personally it's the first season where he has really big shoes to fill with a lot of time to plan to fill them (striker, Gerrard, keeper, maybe another CB). So hopefully he gets it right and the guys he identifies are willing to come to Anfield.

Don't call me James wrote:Seriously though every summer after 2007 we've had dreadful transfer windows.

2008 Summer:
-Robbie Keane Good player but not the right one for our system
-Dossena
-Degen
-N'Gog
-Riera Quite decent
-Cavalieri Decent back-up

Verdict: Dreadful

2009 Summer
-Aquilani  Talented, likable & injury-prone; never really got the chance he deserved
-Johnson (actually good in his first 3 seasons)
-Kyrgiakos Bought as depth, quite decent IMO

Verdict: Dreadful (mostly because of lack of signings and lack of proper strengthening)

2010 Summer
Jovanovic
Danny Wilson
Poulsen
Konchesky
Joe Cole
Brad Jones
Shelvey
Raul Meireles (only decent signing, was great for us that season)

Verdict: Unbelievably out of this world Dreadful

2011 Summer
-Adam
-Downing
-Doni
-Coates  
-Henderson
-Bellamy (great signing that summer, our only truly effective signing for that 11-12 season)
-Enrique Decent back-up quality

-Piss shit dreadful (had a lot of money to spend and completely threw it away)

2012 Summer
-Borini
-Assaidi
-Allen   (so average ffs)
-Sahin Great player but Real ruined his appetite
-Yesil  

Verdict - Dreadful (specially because we were direly in need of a striker and beat around the bush for goddam Dempsey when Sturridge was already available and willing to come)

2013 Summer
-Aspas
-Alberto  
-Ilori    (though jury still out and might look a bargain in the future)
-Moses
-Cissokho
-Kolo (good signing, but prone to Koloing it up on too many occasions, as he did vs WBA)
-Sakho (really underwhelming first season, part of a defense that cost us the title, but finally now showing good worth)
-Mignolet (decent in his first season, looking like he's really not up to par to be a starter for us)

Verdict - Dreadful

2014 Summer
-Lovren
-Balotelli See Keane
-Lambert Decent back-up option
-Manquillo - talented, but meh too young to actually add quality to starting XI
-Lallana
-Markovic
-Moreno  
-Emre Can (best signing of the summer, still took 3 months or so to adjust but was given the chance was producing much quicker than the rest)
-Origi N/A

Verdict - felt like end of the world dreadful, but less dreadful than all those mentioned above



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Players in red above are still here at the club this season

Johnson (all want him gone, contract over in summer)
Jones (all want him gone, contract over in summer)
Henderson
Enrique (will be sold soon, deadwood)
Borini (most want him gone, deadwood)
Allen (jury is out, I want him gone)
Yesil (injuries ruined, will most likely be leaving sooner or later)
Kolo (contract out in summer, not needed anymore)
Sakho
Mignolet (almost everyone in agreement he should be gone)
Lovren (dreadful, please get rid of this pest)
Balotelli (  )
Manquillo (will most likely leave after his loan is over)
Lambert (waste of a squad space)
Lallana
Markovic
Moreno
Emre Can

Bolded players (+ some loan returnees) are the only ones from 7 years of summer transfer windows that we actually can foresee being here next season and actually quality to the team.

mr-r34 wrote:I'm surprised you omitted Rodgers

I was for Rodgers at the time of his appointment believe it or not. He was worth the risk, unfortunately it's backfired on us.  

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Johnson was not a downgrade on Arbeloa in his first 3 seasons here. He's obviously on the decline but ffs. Anyway, yeah. The signings broken down right there is the reason we've failed in comparison to the big sides. The signings right there is the reason why "big" players don't want to join us. Look at what we sign ffs.

Getting to 2nd place and building a team that looks primed to compete in for a CL spot for the forseeable future sure is a big backfire.

"Building a team that looks primed to compete in the CL spot"

I'd prefer a manager that's actually good enough to win trophies as well as not make "top 4" a target. Top 4 should be the minimum standard for Liverpool. We're not f*cking Tottenham.

Getting to 2nd place and then selling the reason why you were second place, whilst replacing him with players with "untapped potential" doesn't strike me as a good manager.

Being at a top club, and not improving your managerial abilities after 3 years doesn't strike me as a good manager. Also, saying how the "Suarez saga improved me as a manager" when it was Gerrard, not Rodgers, that told Suarez to stfu and play football doesn't strike me as a manager that's "improved" or whatever he said to make himself look bigger than the player.

Good managers like to see clubs process and improve further. Not rebuild, and then rebuild when a player that genuinely wants to leave actually decides enough is enough.

He tries to blame the committee for not going his players when they've backed him since the first moment he's been at the club. FSG has continued to bend over to his demands, and yet he uses "players want to go to London, not Liverpool" for why he can't get top targets. I'm sure Alonso, Torres, Falcao, Di Maria, RVP, Mascherano, Suarez, Silva, Aguero etc all never played in England's north west. The reason players don't want to join us is because they want to play with players similarly to their quality. Players are using Liverpool as a stepping club in the last few years ffs.

But I'd have to agree that he's the greatest manager I've seen to never win silverware.

Ah yes, I forgot how often Liverpool has been at minimum in the CL. I mean, definitely there is not much competition for those four spots. Definitely not with teams who have more money and drawing power than we do.

I dunno, Chelsea, City, Arsenal and United should probably just bend over to our mighty team as we walk into the top 4.

Rodgers is the type of manager we need right now to bring us back into a position where we can "expect" the CL spot as opposed to just hoping for it.

We're competing with the biggest clubs in England financially. Rodgers has spent over 200m since he's been here. That's 200m in 3 seasons. That's A LOT more than Arsenal, and competing with the likes of City AND Chelsea so let's not bring in a lack of resources into this, it's a stupid argument.

Rodgers is the type of manager we need right now if we don't want to win any silverware / fight with Spurs for a 5th placed spot. You're hoping for him to be a success, just like how you're hoping Lovren will turn it around. At the end of the day, they're just both punching above their weight. Just say it how it is. Yeah, Rodgers has done well in the last month, results wise anyway, but he's still not good enough. And won't be going forward either.

It's lose lose for Rodgers, his club has no leverage when trying to sign big players, no *bleep* big players wanna come here, no *bleep* big players wanna come here. Once you understand that RA, and the fact that ayre is a shit negotiator, you'll realise that rodgers has to go for the types of players we do. 200mil is a *bleep* load of money, but it was either spend it or hope for the best or don't and still get crucified.

Rodgers isn't punching above his weight, were not a elite club in the prem.

Albert your argument is stupid.

Of course resources argument is very much present in this case and there is a huge difference here. We are not shopping in the same market as United, Chelsea, City. Our owners do not pay the wages for those top top top players. We may have the ability to pay those wages (give that we are 9th in the world in generating revenue) but the owners don't run the club like that so we must keep our perspective. We cannot sign Ibrahimovic's, Fabregas', James', Reus', Falcao, Di Maria's of this world.

However, having said that, we are shopping in a similar market to the Arsenals, Spurs', Atleticos, Dortmunds, Juventus', Romas, Inters, Milans of this world. In a given year we might have a stronger pull than a lot of these clubs. And in another year we might have a weaker pull of the better players in this market.

Now this is where our scouting department and this bullshit committee fail us. Instead of pinpointing guys like Luiz Gustavo (when he was surplus to requirements at Bayern), Griezmann (La Real prodigy looking to move up in his career), Mandzukic (surplus to requirements at Bayern), Pjanic (Lyon prodigy looking to move up in his career, Strootman (PSV prodigy looking to move up in his career), Eriksen (Ajax prodigy looking to move in his career), etc they target guys like Lallana, Balotelli, and Lovren for our marquee signings. This is where we've fallen further and further behind in the past decade or two. Our big signigns (outside of lucky Suarez, Torres) keep being flops. Keane, Aquilani, Carroll, Downing, Allen, Balotelli, Lovren, etc. Or like Lallana, although good player, we overpaid massively.

Sometimes this committee get their targets right for our marquee signings like Sanchez and Costa but we can't sign them because of our current stock in European football is not as high. We need them to target guys similar to this talent level. Lacazette, Kovacic, etc fall into this category.

Yes on top of those so called marquee signings (that haven't worked in the recent past) we will also always sign younger players (and I have no qualms about this part). Keep signing them, I'm fine with that. Young players like Sturridge, Coutinho, Markovic, Can etc will make it at the club as we've seen if they show they are good enough. And of course some will fail miserably, Borini, Babel, Shelvey, Assaidi, etc but it's worth a punt as the risk-reward is about 50% or so.

One thing we should really stop doing, is buying squad depth and squad fillers. Buying for quantity HAS NEVER WORKED for us. You cannot keep doing the same thing over and over again and expect different results. Guys like Aspas, Moses, Lambert, etc. These are guys that are neither young nor good. We know they will never be good enough for us to eventually start, yet we keep buying them. We buy them because we fear our squad is too small, yet when we are actually in the middle of an injury crises we never use them anyways.

My argument is "stupid" yet your bipolar brain will change your opinion in no less than 3 months. lmao

And FSG WILL pay wages if they're worthy enough. They wanted to reduce 30+ year olds on high 5+6 digit numbers that were leaking onto the wage bill. There's nothing wrong with that. They've stated time and time again they're willing to pay for quality.

They were willing to give Suarez 200k a week. They were willing to pay more than Arsenal for Sanchez. Your argument is moot. Really, we're in the same bracket as those clubs? Liverpool and Spurs should be in your first list, against the likes of United, Chelsea, City. FFS look at the amount we've spent compared to the rest of the teams you have us next too.

The only problem here is "bigger clubs" have a better pull because they have better players than we do. They will guarantee success. Players don't want to come here to prove their talent and just carry the club. They want silverware. That's all it comes to at the end of the day. It's why we don't attract the likes of those players, because they don't want to come here and play with kids.

I'm sick of people saying we're not a "big" club anymore. The whole quality in PL has dropped.

And yeah, I agree with the rest in regards to the scouting committee and co. Our transfer strategy / committee is pulling us down. We're buying players that are inferior to our first team players where we need to actually improve the starting XI. 20m on Lovren when Skrtel was better. Skrtel's no world beater ffs. 25m on Lallana when Coutinho is a better player and with a higher ceiling. 20m on Markovic who's a kid. 16m or so on Balotelli who can't even get on the bench over LAMBERT ffs because of stupid management. That's over 80m right there. You're telling me you can't sign 2-3 world class players that would walk into our starting Xi with 80m? Kroos went for 20ish. Rakitic went for lower. Cesc went for around 25. Costa went for 30. Yeah, you can say the players wouldn't want to join us as they went to "bigger clubs", and that's fair enough, but why are we signing INFERIOR players to those just mentioned for higher fees? Shaqiri went for a low fee. Again, he's better than Lallana. he just went for half the fee of what we spent on Adam.

The Eriksen and Luis Alberto thing also shows how bad we are. The Salah thing in January thing too. We weren't willing to spend 1-2m extra on Salah (who would of got rid of Moses, where Viktor helped Chelsea making us concede 2-3 goals which made us drop points last season) when he was needed, and then decided to overspend 5m+ for Lovren AND Lallana 6 months later. I really can go on. It's just... frustrating. We won't ever get anywhere if we keep shooting ourselves in the market.

You could say the extra 5 mil on lallana and lovern was done because they saw the back lash from fans like RA who complained when we didnt splash those extra few mils on those average players like Salah.

You could say the extra 5 mil on lallana and lovern was done because they saw the back lash from fans like RA who complained when we didnt splash those extra few mils on those average players like Salah and still managed to f*** it up by signing inferiority for twice the fee.

Salah better than lallana, done lol.

Not as a player no, but as a transfer yes.

Salah signed = we wouln't have spent 20m on Markovic 6 months later.
Salah signed = we wouldn't have seen Viktor Moses at the back end of the season (who made us drop points).
Salah signed = we actually could of actually rotated the squad a bit / used his pace when we had tired legs. Would of actually been a goal threat, too.
Salah signed = we wouldn't have lost out on his transfer fee. He'll sell for equal or more than what Chelsea bought him for (what was it, 13m and we offered 12? lmao).

Ever seen Salah play, mate?

He's the Egyptian Willian.

No, he isn't.

He is pace and that is it. No end product, no finishing, not a good dribbler, not a good defender, average all over.

Lallana is a much better player, regardless of money paid.

Willian is all pace and that is "it". Has "fifa street" skills, but no end product AT ALL. Pretty much why I was so happy when Spurs "stole" him from us. And then you stole him from them.

Salah would of helped us last January, and that's all that matters. He's better than Moses, and would of taken the burden off of Sterling, and Sturridge who both were struggling with fatigue towards the end of the season.

Salah has struggled at Chelsea because he's short of confidence; mainly due to a lack of consistent game time. Game time he was never going to get with the players in front of him.

Willian is still a vastly superior player to Salah.

I honestly doubt Salah would help you, at all.