"The team's philosophy is untouchable and non-negotiable," Xavi, 33, told reporters on Friday. "That was Martino's message to us on his first day.

"There are no internal debates going on. We know how we’re playing and the ideas are set.

"We have a clear philosophy: to play attractive football, on the attack and achieve our targets. We have never thought of changing our style."

http://www.goal.com/en/news/12/spain/2013/11/08/4393200/barca-philosophy-is-untouchable-xavi

I agree with Xavi if we take into account also Barca from before Pep. Barca are attacking, trying to get the ball in the opponent's half, and occasionally braking in counter which is by no means against Barca's philosophy. The only point where I think we are moving from it a bit is Valdes' long shots.

Also, Pep was tinkering with the team each and every season. Only fools never change, the trick is to change enough to be dangerous, but to keep the core thing that you value.

1991 wrote:

Ok. What does this have to do with the OP?

eelir wrote:

1991 wrote:

Ok. What does this have to do with the OP?

Perhaps the philosophy should be changed rather than beating your head against a brick wall?

one bad loss and everything should change?
ooookay dat logic

That loss if anything proved the philosophy is correct, because we didnt follow it.

Match fitness and not having a coach for 3 months had much more to do with that scoreline than philosophy.

Clockwork Orange wrote:"The team's philosophy is untouchable and non-negotiable," Xavi, 33, told reporters on Friday. "That was Martino's message to us on his first day.

I dont know what Martino said but his Barcelona is clearly hoofing from the back more than i have seen from them do in past decade.Their CB's takes very less risks while moving the ball,which is clearly not the way to play their football is it?

Rewatching that 7 months later and I still don't get how the first 3 goals can possibly be allowed. First goal Dante is completely leaning on Alves, second goal is offside and not even close, third goal Müller simply bodychecks Alba in the build-up to the goal (nevermind that Bayern shouldn't even be in a position to counterattack like that in the first place). Barca were horendous last season in that period and Bayern would have prevailed anyway but this has to be the most exaggerated scoreline of all times.

One should always be open-minded. If they would've thought like that in the past they wouldn't have that philosophy right now.
Don't think they should change the philosophy right now but you never know what's going to happen in the future.

this has to be the most exaggerated scoreline of all times.

Oh stop it. Bayern was miles better and they destroyed you. it happens.

futbol wrote:Rewatching that 7 months later and I still don't get how the first 3 goals can possibly be allowed. First goal Dante is completely leaning on Alves, second goal is offside and not even close, third goal Müller simply bodychecks Alba in the build-up to the goal (nevermind that Bayern shouldn't even be in a position to counterattack like that in the first place). Barca were horendous last season in that period and Bayern would have prevailed anyway but this has to be the most exaggerated scoreline of all times.

I agree with your points on goals 2 and 3, but still your bitterness is comical

Adit wrote:

Clockwork Orange wrote:"The team's philosophy is untouchable and non-negotiable," Xavi, 33, told reporters on Friday. "That was Martino's message to us on his first day.

I dont know what Martino said but his Barcelona is clearly hoofing from the back more than i have seen from them do in past decade.Their CB's takes very less risks while moving the ball,which is clearly not the way to play their football is it?

Rafa Marquez and Ronald Koeman both say hi.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

Adit wrote:

Clockwork Orange wrote:"The team's philosophy is untouchable and non-negotiable," Xavi, 33, told reporters on Friday. "That was Martino's message to us on his first day.

I dont know what Martino said but his Barcelona is clearly hoofing from the back more than i have seen from them do in past decade.Their CB's takes very less risks while moving the ball,which is clearly not the way to play their football is it?

Rafa Marquez and Ronald Koeman both say hi.

You are not seriously really comparing Rafa and Koeman both of them renowned for their ball skills as defenders and playing long balls to Mascherano hoofing it upto forward line..

Mascherano did that under Pep and Tito regularly, what are you talking about?

What im saying? Mashcerano hoofs more now than under pep or tito.

Nah just saying that CBs playing long balls how ever accurate they maybe isn't a new thing at Barca.

Pep's philosophy and Barca's philosophy are two different things a lot of people forget that Rijkaard's team and Cruyff's dream team were a lot more direct than Pep's Barca was.

Too much of a big deal made out of this tbh.... Pep has gone so the way he had them playing has changed just like it was different before him.

Mascherano isnt hoofing, he's just shit.

I get what your saying adit though, the entire backline minus Alves isnt as committed to playing passes out of trouble as say 3 years ago. I agree with that.

But I think they are still struggling with Tata's commands. He says he wants them to alternate between direct play and the usual stuff, but sometimes it seems like they are going direct for no apparent reason and I personally think its poor football and I dont like it.

At the end of the day, the players have to and should put their skills in the service of the coach and Tata, while an advocate of our football is clearly more pragmatic than Tito or Pep and that is reflected in the play at times.

That isnt us getting away from our philosophy, just a natural clash between what we have been doing and the minor changes the coach asks for.

Xavi isnt wrong though, especially from his point of view. He plays the same way and he will play the same way, because he (for me correctly) thinks football should be played in a specific way, not just for entertaining football but for results also.

Pique wrote:“Barcelona were enslaved by tiki-taka.If we are trapped [by the opponent], hitting two long balls isn’t bad, it’s changing approach, it’s refreshing [like breathing fresh oxygen], so that we don’t tighten up, so that we don’t [feel] there is no escape''

Another way of saying we are now taking less risks when passing the ball out from the back. If you go and watch the confidence with which Barca CBs played the ball out of their back and now, there is a big difference.I think its a clear command from Martino.

Lex wrote:

futbol wrote:Rewatching that 7 months later and I still don't get how the first 3 goals can possibly be allowed. First goal Dante is completely leaning on Alves, second goal is offside and not even close, third goal Müller simply bodychecks Alba in the build-up to the goal (nevermind that Bayern shouldn't even be in a position to counterattack like that in the first place). Barca were horendous last season in that period and Bayern would have prevailed anyway but this has to be the most exaggerated scoreline of all times.

I agree with your points on goals 2 and 3, but still your bitterness is comical

Making fun of another man's bitterness ... I bet you would shamelessly kick a ballboy as well if you were a professional footballer.

There is a huge difference between diversifying tactics and betraying our philosophy. Adit you are buying too much into the media-fuelled panic aimed at destabilizing Barca. Yes, Masche hoofs. He did that under Pep and Tito too. Does he hoof more now? Sure, but that's not betraying Barca's identity, there are many past precedents. I can distinctly remember Valdes hoofing it in the 2010/11 final - which he does far more now - but we still play the Barca way and our philosophy is intact. We still lead in possession, short passing, chances created, knowing when to wait for a better opportunity and all these other traits people associate with Barca. If we need to adapt into more direct football to deal with parked buses then so be it, our tactics are no longer useful and need to be updated because of their own success.

Adit wrote:

Pique wrote:“Barcelona were enslaved by tiki-taka.If we are trapped [by the opponent], hitting two long balls isn’t bad, it’s changing approach, it’s refreshing [like breathing fresh oxygen], so that we don’t tighten up, so that we don’t [feel] there is no escape''

Another way of saying we are now taking less risks when passing the ball out from the back. If you go and watch the confidence with which Barca CBs played the ball out of their back and now, there is a big difference.

There isn't really a big difference. Pique's passing accuracy has actually risen from last season despite playing more long diagonal balls. 92 %. And we're still not playing as many long balls from the back as Pep's Bayern.

I maintain that this Barca side hasn't changed too much since 2008 but rather the opponents have adapted tactically or have become better or both. Just go back to 2009 and watch the 6-2 Clasico. Real Madrid playing 4-4-2 with Higuain-Raul upfront, Gago in midfield, Metzelder in defense etc. Tactically without any sort of pressing system as well. This current Barca side playing against that Madrid side would end up in a 6-0-esque scoreline again.

Yeah i dont think Barcelona have abandoned Cryffian philosophies but you are clearly further away from that philosophy now, while you were alot closer to it a while back.

ioilersrock448 wrote:
Perhaps the philosophy should be changed rather than beating your head against a brick wall?

Yeah, one bad loss after our coach was away with cancer and having problems with our attackers not scoring even if their life depended on that, and we should completely change the pyholosphy that brought us so many trophies in several years.

BTW read what i wrote earlier (the one in bold):

eelir wrote:I agree with Xavi if we take into account also Barca from before Pep. Barca are attacking, trying to get the ball in the opponent's half, and occasionally braking in counter which is by no means against Barca's philosophy. The only point where I think we are moving from it a bit is Valdes' long shots.

Also, Pep was tinkering with the team each and every season. Only fools never change, the trick is to change enough to be dangerous, but to keep the core thing that you value.