Re: Spanish league is a boring two-horse race

by redsnoopy Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:13 pm

Celtic n Rangers in scottish league also 2 horse league, not that anyone cares

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:52 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:The badger made me reconsider
2 horse leagues:
france = psg and monaco
germany = BVB, Bayern
Spain = barca and Real

1 horse leagues:
Italy = juve
england = Man utd

Monaco

by chad4401 on Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:56 pm

im tired of hearing how competitive epl is, when all i see is chelsea or manu winning the league for a while now

Firstly.... Chelsea lol?

Secondly people don't call PL competitive because of the winners of the league.

Its competitive because majority of games are very keenly contested and majority of the time the difference in points between Title contenders, CL spots and EL spots are very keenly contested.

La Liga is just a training exercise for the big 2.

by 7amood11 Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:56 pm

AltoZ wrote:I think the spanish teams are alright, they just always give up, when they play RM or Barca.

You dont see that in PL. Too much pride.

Or maybe there's a very significant gap in quality between the top two and the rest of the league.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:58 pm

futbol wrote:Bundesliga is the worst for me. That's why I never had much interest in it despite being German. If once in a decade another team bar Bayern manages to assemble a proper team, Bayern will just buy their best players. Proper 1 horse league. In La Liga you have at least 2 title contenders on EQUAL terms. In Bundesliga Bayern can spend as much as they want and attract every Bundesliga player they want whereas the next best team to Bayern keeps losing their best players every season, partly to Bayern: Sahin, Kagawa, Götze, Lewandowski (soon) and most likely Gündogan and Hummels as well within the next 2 seasons.

Bayern have won the league 5 times in last 10 years..... so this is clearly a load of ignorant bollocks.

Also they only lost Gotze to Bayern who had a release clause....

La Liga is nowhere near as competitive as Bundesliga and one year of Bayern playing like gods doesn't change that.

by Mr Nick09 Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:59 pm

where is the competition in bundesliga mole? are you serious? lmao

all the other clubs but bayern used to be irrelevant in recent history, and only BVB rised up now. It used to be that Bayern would either win the league, or lose the league. Not that some other team would beat them

by BarrileteCosmico Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:00 pm

But are serie a or the bundesliga any better when a team wins undefeated not that long ago and the other purchases the competitors' best players on a regular basis? I wouldn't call la liga competitive, but I do think that it gets more attacked for its shortcomings than other leagues.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:04 pm

Last season it wasn't i admit that but that aside its been very competitive for the last decade.

Lets not use last season as a measuring stick for the league as a whole over a long period of time.

Before last season Bayern hadn't won the league since 2010 and only 3 titles since 2003 before that.

Lets not act like Bayern steamroll it every year.

by 7amood11 Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:06 pm

Bayern definitely won't be able to win the Bundesliga this season as easily as they did last year. Guardiola is drastically changing the winning system that made Bayern so much better than the rest, and there's no guarantee that it will be as successful as Heynckes' system last season. Maybe Dortmund's Supercup win supports this thought? (It was only one game to be fair)

And with Dortmund looking just as strong (if not stronger) than they were last season, I'm sure the fight for the Bundesliga title this season will be very competitive and could go down to the last few weeks of the season.

by rwo power Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:13 pm

redsnoopy wrote:Now I know why German league degenerates into a one horse race, only one club has all the cash and the league doesn't allow others to inject cash to others

Well, if you have checked the BL, you might have noticed there were 5 different BL champions in the last ten years (Werder Bremen, Bayern, Stuttgart, Wolfsburg and Dortmund) and Bayern only won once in the last three years. Dunno how you conclude it is a one-horse race.

In the same time, in the BPL you had 4 champions, Serie A had 3 and La Liga had 3.

by VivaStPauli Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:20 pm

I'm actually adamant that Guardiola will manage to ruin Bayern enough by winter, that Dortmund might actually win, and Pep is probably going to get sacked come spring time, when KHR and Hoeness start to fear missing out on the UCL.

Bundesliga teams will press that 4-1-4-1 shite formation into the ground and just overcrowd those poor two CBs and one DM until the defence totally collapses. Even under mighty Heynckes Bayern was prone to moments of panic, even if it ended up not costing them anything.

Even if Pep doesn't get the sack and his system eventually starts working, that won't be before next season IMHO.

by The_Badger Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:37 pm

Even though Bayern Munich spend more than every other club in the league and hoover up all the talent, they still don't dominate in a way they should.

Unfortunately, aside from BVB in recent years, there has been little sustained competition from other league winners like Wolfsburg, Stuttgart and Bremen. Non of these three clubs have had the stability needed to ensure regular competition for league titles.

by Doc Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:47 pm

Two horse race, most definitely. Boring, hell no. Some men need to broaden their footballing horizon and actually watch La Liga, not just Real Madrid and/or Barcelona.

Seriously, I thought as a forum we out grew these type of threads. As for the competitiveness of Bundesliga, it is quite competitive but Bayern would win most of the time.

by rwo power Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:48 pm

The_Badger wrote:Unfortunately, aside from BVB in recent years, there has been little sustained competition from other league winners like Wolfsburg, Stuttgart and Bremen. Non of these three clubs have had the stability needed to ensure regular competition for league titles.

On the other hand, there could always be a surprise team that suddenly comes out of nowhere. That's both the good and bad thing about the BL - it is always possible for a very unexpected team to surprisingly do well (I mean, newly promoted Eintracht Frankfurt was only one match away from getting a Champions League spot last season!), while previously good teams might even fight against relegation suddenly.

by The_Badger Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:56 pm

Surprises are a good thing, I agree. Wolfsburg for example. It's a shame they couldn't offer anything after their league title victory and slid back into mediocrity.

Bundesliga does not need another 12/13 though where the winner romps away six games before time and by 25 points.

by jibers Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:58 pm

Bayern won't win the bundesliga. Dortmund will walk it.

by The_Badger Mon Aug 12, 2013 8:59 pm

I hope some other club does; Schalke, or Leverkusen perhaps.

by Dnmac4 Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:35 pm

aleumdance wrote:AND FINALLY..

NOBODY IN EPL, SERIE A, and lately Bundesliga gives a $hit about the Europa league

la liga teams take it serious to compensate themsleves from el clasico

I mean how dull are you????

CHELSEA JUST WON THE EUROPA LEAGUE. They took it seriously.

I mean do you even think before you type?

by Gil Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:37 pm

Probably the most uninspiring and boring League in Europe. It pales in comparison to the competitive nature and overall strength of the PL.

100 points to win a League lol. Laughing

by Onyx Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:38 pm

S wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:In terms of generating it, what would be the point of a new owner? Can't the club generate it? I think the main point of an owner is they use their money and help the club.
Read the FFP guidelines and come back to me.

For the TV deal, I think the new owner would have to understand that Real Madrid/Barca are the top dogs in La Liga and their current club will take time to get near Real Madrid/Barca's level.
Hence why apparently Al-Thani lost 'interest' in the club ? I'm pretty sure he was unhappy about the monetary advantages Barca and Madrid were receiving.And from what i know he's a very wealthy man.

The best idea would be the club buys top players like Malaga were doing and see where they can go. Villarreal in 2008 finished 2nd ahead of Barca and Atletico did well last too. So if a club like Atletico get a takeover I think they can compete for the title.
But its not as easy as it sounds with your Atletico example ! All you're just saying is that owners have to be 'patient' and should just deal with Barca and Real's advantage.I'm asking why would any wealthy ambitious owner suck up to that ?

In the EPL,money is distributed evenly,marketed brilliantly(most viewed league in the world) and there is a history of foreign owners finding success hence why its a very attractive proposition for foreign owners.La Liga has none of it,there's a lot of politics involved and with what happened with Al-Thani ,any new owner could easily back away.

How are all the current rich owners buying players for their clubs? I was pretty sure they used their money to buy all those top players. PSG, Anzhi, Man City, Monaco etc.

The Malaga owner probably was unhappy with the TV deals, however surely there has to be an owner out there who's willing to simply start a project with a club like Malaga, just to build them up to near Real Madrid/Barca's level.

An owner that cares about the footballing side as well would understand Real Madrid/Barca are on another level. Why would the owner take over in the first place without knowing those two clubs are better than his club and he'll be at a disadvantage? The plan would for the owner would be to build a long term project.

by chad4401 Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:53 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Mr Nick09 wrote:The badger made me reconsider
2 horse leagues:
france = psg and monaco
germany = BVB, Bayern
Spain = barca and Real

1 horse leagues:
Italy = juve
england = Man utd
Monaco

by chad4401 on Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:56 pm

im tired of hearing how competitive epl is, when all i see is chelsea or manu winning the league for a while now
Firstly.... Chelsea lol?

Secondly people don't call PL competitive because of the winners of the league.

Its competitive because majority of games are very keenly contested and majority of the time the difference in points between Title contenders, CL spots and EL spots are very keenly contested.

La Liga is just a training exercise for the big 2.

The last couple winners were either chelsea or manu, yeah i know city is in the running now, doesn't really change anything and what does it matter how keenly contested the matches are when its same teams winning every other season, arsenal, spurs and liverpool are not contenders its exactly the same as la liga, also el and cl matches are very tight too

by Dnmac4 Mon Aug 12, 2013 9:58 pm

aleumdance wrote:
Dnmac4 wrote:
aleumdance wrote:lol EPL, chelsea and citeh..

citeh don~t even know how to press, Chelsea attack is meh...

now lets look at Europe

apart from el classico, what other la liga team can scare anyone in UCL ( nobody take the europa serious)

I am a madrid fan, don't wanna turn this into a league fight though. but la liga needs some major rebranding
Are you serious? How short are peoples memories?

La Liga had 3 of the last 8 teams in the CL. The EPL had a grand total of 0 of the last 8!!!!!!

In fact City and Chelsea couldn't even make it out of the group stages where as all 4 La Liga teams did.

What other teams can scare anyone in the CL you ask? Just LAST YEAR Atletico raped Chelsea with a trophy on the line( I believe there in the CL). Let me guess, Chelsea didn't take it seriously????? That's probably your excuse and an incredibly stupid one at that.

Man United (Were they in the Champions League?) got raped by a La Liga team that finished 10th in La Liga that year.

And LOL at "No one take Europe Serious." This is such a cute theory. Whenever an EPL team gets S*** on, it means they didn't take it seriously. Didn't Chelsea just win this trophy????? I guess they may have taken it seriously.

Here was United's starting line up when they played Bilbao.

01 De Gea
03 Evra
05 Ferdinand (Smalling - 63' )
06 Evans
21 Rafael Booked
11 Giggs (Welbeck - 68' )
13 Park Ji-sung
16 Carrick (Pogba - 63' Booked )
18 Young
23 Cleverley
10 Rooney

That sure looks like they didn't take it seriously doesn't it. Oh wait, that was basically there strongest lineup.

Also, none of you watch La Liga anyways so I find it funny that you comment on it. You can just go back to the thread where people listed what leagues they watch. No one watched this league, although you would think they would respect it after the beatings there EPl teams take from La Liga.

Also, not only did Atletico rape Chelsea last year but they also challenged for the second spot in La Liga for most of the year and were ahead of Madrid for large parts of the season as well. They also beat Madrid (Another CL Team) in the Copa Del Rey final.

In fact in the last 4 years Atletico has won the Europa League twice (Beating Liverpool and Fulham that year, Fulham made the final but I forgot they didn't take it seriously), The Super Cup twice (Beating Chelsea) and the Copa Del Rey once (Beating Madrid).

So Atletico has won 5 trophies in the last 4 years mowing down EPL competition in 2 of them. How many has Arsenal won? Scratch that, how many has City won in the last 4 years? How about Spurs or Liverpool? In fact, Chelsea and United are the only 2 teams in the EPL who seem to win anything consistently.

Since the year 2000 4 La Liga teams have won the league (Barcelona, Madrid, Valencia and Super Depo). Barcelona and Madrid winning 10 of them.

Since the year 2000 4 EPL teams have won the EPL. (Arsenal, Chelsea, Man United, City). Chelsea and Man United winning 10 of them.

Wow, that is exactly the same. I know most of you are like 15 years old so you can't remember anything that happened over 3-4 years ago. But where is this massive difference you are speaking of????????
UCL finalist since 2005

ac milan vs liverpool
barcelona vs arsenal
acmilan vs liverpool
United vs Chelsea
United vs Barcelona
Inter vs Bayern
United vs Barcelona
Bayern vs Chelsea
Bayern vs BVB

Now count how many teams are in red, pls count how many la liga teams played finals..

this is when you know the la liga is in trouble and needs a major rebranding

So your using the last 10 or so CL's to gauge how competitive the CL is but you don't listen what so ever to comparing La Liga and the EPL since 2000 to gauge how competitive they are.

The leagues have both been won 10 times by there big 2 Madrid/Barca and Chelsea/Man United and 3 times by Arsenal/City and Super Depo/Valencia. Exactly the same.

Quite a hypocrite aren't you.

I really don't know where the EPL get's this reputation from? Oh yes I do, fan boys like you who only watch the EPL and when there teams lose to other leagues they roll out the "Well, we didn't try in that game" excuse.

In fact it's generally only EPL fans who roll out that pathetic excuse. For example you have already rolled it out in this thread.

by Dnmac4 Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:03 pm

I also think it's hilarious that EPL fans have really deluded themselves into thinking Madrid and Barcelona wouldn't win there league almost every year as well.

Those two teams if thrown into the EPL would dominate that league as well. I mean Man United usually takes the league and they are Barca and Madrid's play toy.

by 7amood11 Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:16 pm

Dnmac4 wrote:I also think it's hilarious that EPL fans have really deluded themselves into thinking Madrid and Barcelona wouldn't win there league almost every year as well.

Those two teams if thrown into the EPL would dominate that league as well. I mean Man United usually takes the league and they are Barca and Madrid's play toy.

Man Utd being Barca and Madrid's play toy? You do remember that just last season they came very close to beating Madrid, only to lose in controversial fashion?

by The_Badger Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:27 pm

7amood11 wrote:
Dnmac4 wrote:I also think it's hilarious that EPL fans have really deluded themselves into thinking Madrid and Barcelona wouldn't win there league almost every year as well.

Those two teams if thrown into the EPL would dominate that league as well. I mean Man United usually takes the league and they are Barca and Madrid's play toy.
Man Utd being Barca and Madrid's play toy? You do remember that just last season they came very close to beating Madrid, only to lose in controversial fashion?

They lost nonetheless and were beaten soundly by Barca twice in the final.

by 7amood11 Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:31 pm

The_Badger wrote:
7amood11 wrote:
Dnmac4 wrote:I also think it's hilarious that EPL fans have really deluded themselves into thinking Madrid and Barcelona wouldn't win there league almost every year as well.

Those two teams if thrown into the EPL would dominate that league as well. I mean Man United usually takes the league and they are Barca and Madrid's play toy.
Man Utd being Barca and Madrid's play toy? You do remember that just last season they came very close to beating Madrid, only to lose in controversial fashion?
They lost nonetheless and were beaten soundly by Barca twice in the final.

Calling them their "play toy" is still a ridiculous exaggeration. We all saw how difficult it was for Madrid to beat them last season, and we all know that the current Barca is nowhere near the Barca that played Utd in the 10/11 CL final.

by BarrileteCosmico Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:33 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Last season it wasn't i admit that but that aside its been very competitive for the last decade.

Lets not use last season as a measuring stick for the league as a whole over a long period of time.

Before last season Bayern hadn't won the league since 2010 and only 3 titles since 2003 before that.

Lets not act like Bayern steamroll it every year.

So in the past 10 years Bayern has won it 5 times. Likewise for United. In Spain it's Barca 6 times. Why does it have less merit that in Spain the contender is usually the same one? Why should that be less exciting for a neutral? Shouldn't how "boring" the league is be decided by how long the fight goes on before it's clear there is a winner? In all major leagues last season the winner was clear months before they actually won the title. So why does the fact that La Liga is a 2 horse race make that any more boring than the others?

And on the subject of a 2 horse race, some league fans might argue that there are multiple contenders, but its' very rare to see that being the case past January in most leagues. When was the last time we entered April in the EPL and wondered "Damn the fight is so close that it could really come down to any 4 of these, I wonder who it will be?". Even 3 seems like a stretch to me. I'd say that it hasn't happened in England, the bastion of competitiveness, since 08/09. Does that make the EPL boring? I wouldn't say that, but apparently many people think that holds true for La Liga.

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