Re: The Bale and CR7 Thread

[jibers]

Just to put things in perspective, Drogba scored a total of 16 goals in all comps his first year at Chelsea and 16 again in his second year...  He was being rotated those 2 years (averaged 30 starts and 10 subs).  Once he was handed the keys and given a chance to be the clear #1 at his position his 3rd year, he took off (54 starts in his 3rd year).  If he was at Madrid, he'd never have made it...

Drogba joined Chelsea at the age of 26.

I can confirm...

I am Drogba after he became clear #1...

[Mr Nick09]

why do we put age into this? players have different development curves

and i recall otherwise anyway, Drogba was getting injured a lot in those first two seasons at chelsea, and even after that.

the guy had like two seasons over 30 goals in 8 years at chelsea, the rest he never went above 20... not a prolific scorer.

the legend of drogba is overrated, mainly by his CL winning season with clutch performances, and other clutch goals vs big teams (nice CL record tho).

[sportsczy]

why do we put age into this? players have different development curves

and i recall otherwise anyway, Drogba was getting injured a lot in those first two seasons at chelsea, and even after that.

the guy had like two seasons over 30 goals in 8 years, the rest he never went above 20... not a prolific scorer.

the legend of drogba is overrated, mainly by his CL winning season with clutch performances, and other clutch goals vs big teams.

Are you really saying that Drogba is overrated?

[Mr Nick09]

if you put him up against guys like Etoo, yes

[sportsczy]

Ok, i'll forget what i just read and move on

[Mr Nick09]

what's drogba doing in this discussion anyway? Drogba always had balls, where are benzema's?

[sportsczy]

Drogba had one good season in his career before the age of 28 and was being talked about as a flop at Chelsea because of his "lack of a winning mentality" after his subpar start in the EPL.  His efficiency was atrocious his first 2 years where he was around 12% and not scoring enough.

He was thought of as a 1 year wonder who was only good enough for Ligue 1.  His CL exploits in his year at OM were considered flukes.

Pretty similar if you ask me, except Benz is 25 and has achieved a ton more.  Not saying he will turn into Drogba or close to it... but everyone dismissed the effects of injuries and rotation back then with Drogba just like they are now with Benz and Higuain.

[Mr Nick09]

how about we compare Zidane and gourcuff now too?

[sportsczy]

Thierry Henry is another example btw. He flopped hard at Juventus since they played him out of position. Wenger picked him up and, once he was allowed to play in his proper role, he broke out.

His mentality was again the big question mark.

It seems that whenever a very talented players gets misused, it's his "mentality" that's the problem, not the club or the manager's use of him, especially with big clubs.

Berbatov is another prime example.

Oldest story in the book.

[sportsczy]

how about we compare Zidane and gourcuff now too?

If Zidane had stayed at DM with Juve (which would have happened without the intervention of Platini), then we would be talking about his "mentality" more than his achievements too.

Gourcuff was ruined by injuries. Completely different case. I also think the criticism towards him is a bit unfair since the guy can't stay healthy. It's a shame moreso than a "mentality" problem.

[Mr Nick09]

not following down that path mate, for something like that to even happen, Benzema needs a manager that absolutely believes in him like Mou did in Drogba and Wenger in Henry. THose guys are unique success storis of footy imo, i know better than assuming that any struggling player can have that kind of turnaround.

french generation 87 is rotten with players with crappy attitudes and mentality.

[sportsczy]

Every single player required that a manager believe in him.

You want a more recent example?  Wenger with RVP.  His "mentality" was highly questioned too

Also, Higuain has a big chance to get into the elite class as Benitez is handing him the keys basically.  His whole "CL mentality" stuff could very well go out the window.

These are not exceptions.  We're talking about some the best players over the past 15 years that struggled because of mismanagement and "miraculously" became great once they were trusted and used properly.

[Mr Nick09]

that's settled then, Benzema needs Wenger, even if it didnt completely work for Adebayor. There is still hope for Demba Ba then, Cisse, and Remy...

[sportsczy]

How about SAF giving RVN a chance despite RVN being out with injury for practically the entire season at Eindhoven the year before.  he was 25 when SAF brought him in.

How about SAF giving Cantona a chance when he had retired from footy in 1991 and being at Nimes and Leeds the previous 2 years.

Point is, a lot of these greats went through a difficult period but had a manager give them a shot to redeem themselves.  Not a half chance with rotation or having them play out of position... they gave them an honest to goodness shot and they proved them right.  The common denominator?  Talent, but alleged questionable mentality.

Madrid is just horrible at trusting players.  Heck, we don't even trust our own cantera lol.  Sneijder, Robben and Huntelaar are recent examples of that.

My point is that instead of insulting a player's mentality.... maybe it's the environment?  Is that unreasonable to think about??

Benz and Higuain didn't even have bad seasons given the circumstances.  They just couldn't produce at a 100% when playing time was inconsistent.  They got battle fatigued.

[chad4401]

Same typical blindness shown by some fans who watch the game selectively, chelsea game is another a perfect example, cr took his usual 10+ shots to get 2 goals , but that shouldn't bother benzema, imo he should keep running non stop like a headless chicken so at least he looks passionate  

You guys want rvp like performance when he can't even get a pass in a good position, cr needs to hang back and let benzema get a chance they are partners in the attack, not hero and sidekick

[Mr Nick09]

hang back? are you on cafeine? how about benzema steps up, ever considered that? lol

they are very much hero and sidekick by the way, and benzema likes it. Otherwise he turns into DMzema like with france. please

[chad4401]

Who steps up after watching cr blasts shots into defender legs or over bar

By your logic rooney and rvp should be killing it right? also tell me about zlatan and messi? who failed to step up there

[Zealous]

Who steps up after watching cr blasts shots into defender legs or over bar

By your logic rooney and rvp should be killing it right? also tell me about zlatan and messi? who failed to step up there

Yes Ronaldo taking shots is why Benzema plays poorly every other game. That entire notion is ludicrous.

He has the same problems with France do they have a "CR" as well? Or are all those boos he gets at the Stade de France an ironic sign of affection? lol

Benzema needs to be in the box more and smarter with his positioning. His hold up play is great, his finishing is great and he's great at creating space for himself, if I had all these qualities I would try to get into the box as much as possible. I'm willing to bet if he had more of a box presence he'd be getting the ball waaaay more often and as such would get more touches. When he is closer to the halfway line than the goal no one should cry about Cristiano shooting instead of passing to him.

[FalcaoPunch]

Benzema plays poorly?

This whole discussion was about benzema not being a "presence" in the box and everything that has been brought up is to support why in fact that is.

Having CR on our team is great. He's an amazing player and we all appreciate him. But our style revolves around him. And it's not a bad thing. But you can bring in literally any "9" you want. And the end result will be the same.

CR will get the most goals. With whoever our next "9" being second to him. It happened with Higuian and Benzema. You guys just believe bringing in bale, WHO ISN'T A 9 BTW, will change much.

We are playing great, if use our preseason so far to judge.

[chad4401]

Funny how NT is a big argument cause benzema is struggling atm, i guess that fair point considering 3 dm midfield they use, anyway its not only benzema that struggles cause the last time i check higuain is the ultimate 9 and has box presence guess what? he gets off 2 shots a game just like dmzema, so dmguain then? .

We have better passing and midfield play so why is cr still taking 10+ shots a game and benzema 2? the team is filled with WC passer you guys telling me they can't find benzema anywhere on the pitch if they wanted? he is not hiding ffs how many times has he raised his hand for a pass and been ignored , i forgot you guys never noticed such thing.

Remember when cr hogged the ball and take 10 useless shots and almost everyone turned on him when we lost? now he is doing almost the same thing but actually scoring against stronger teams consistently, everyone loves him still being a cancer , he scored 50+ goals and we win didn't crap but its not his fault it was benzema and higuain fault

[sportsczy]

Easy there Chad.  Benz has responsibility too...  if he feels ignored, he needs to assert himself.  At some point, he has to become selfish a bit and stop being a team guy.

CR7 is and should be the focal point.  He's been outstanding.  Prior to 2012, he was terrible in big games... but that's no longer the case. HOWEVER, We need to not force it to CR7 so much. It will come back to bite us again because teams like Bayern will force us to go elsewhere and we won't be ready if we're not a bit more balanced.

My gripe is this:
-  Benz and Higuain were great soldiers and worked hard.  The one who is here now deserves a look... he earned it.  We're a year away from Benguain scoring the most goals ever from the CF position (probably assists too).  Last year was a mess for almost everyone... give the kid a break ffs.
-  Fair enough if we had bought Falcao, Cavani, Ibra or Rooney.  But frakkin Bale!  Give me a break.

[Mr Nick09]

Z, i'm going to the store, gonna get chains to hold off CR, you need anything?

[Zealous]

Funny how NT is a big argument cause benzema is struggling atm, i guess that fair point considering 3 dm midfield they use, anyway its not only benzema that struggles cause the last time i check higuain is the ultimate 9 and has box presence guess what? he gets off 2 shots a game just like dmzema, so dmguain then? .

He hasn't scored in more than 1000 minutes for France despite being the main man on that team. Obviously there are other factors at play but I think it goes a long way to debunk the "bwig buwooy Cristiano won't pass Benzy da ball!!"

Higuain is one of Argentina's top scorers and if you check his heat maps he gives the opposing CB's something to think about whenever he's on the pitch.

We have better passing and midfield play so why is cr still taking 10+ shots a game and benzema 2? the team is filled with WC passer you guys telling me they can't find benzema anywhere on the pitch if they wanted? he is not hiding ffs :lol:how many times has he raised his hand for a pass and been ignored , i forgot you guys never noticed such thing.

Maybe it's because these "world class passers" find Cristiano in better positions, which is why they pass to him more? They pass to Cristiano because Cristiano puts himself in great positions and he demands the ball. Benzema's positioning is actually great on the counter but not good enough during other phases of play, that's just my opinion.

Remember when cr hogged the ball and take 10 useless shots and almost everyone turned on him when we lost? now he is doing almost the same thing but actually scoring against stronger teams consistently everyone loves him still being a cancer he scored 50+ goal and we win didn't crap but its not his fault it was benzema and higuain fault

I wasn't one of those morons.

[Zealous]

Z, i'm going to the store, gonna get chains to hold off CR, you need anything?

Benz could probably use a GPS system

[Zealous]

Easy there Chad.  Benz has responsibility too...  if he feels ignored, he needs to assert himself.  At some point, he has to become selfish a bit and stop being a team guy.

CR7 is and should be the focal point.  He's been outstanding.  Prior to 2012, he was terrible in big games... but that's no longer the case.  HOWEVER, We need to not force it to CR7 so much.  It will come back to bite us again because teams like Bayern will force us to go elsewhere and we won't be ready if we're not a bit more balanced.

My gripe is this:
-  Benz and Higuain were great soldiers and worked hard.  The one who is here now deserves a look... he earned it.  We're a year away from Benguain scoring the most goals ever from the CF position (probably assists too).  Last year was a mess for almost everyone... give the kid a break ffs.
-  Fair enough if we had bought Falcao, Cavani, Ibra or Rooney.  But frakkin Bale!  Give me a break.

Fully agree with all of this.

I'm willing to give Benzema a full season, I mean he only has one glaring problem imo. He's pretty great at everything else besides heading lol

[Mr Nick09]

Easy there Chad.  Benz has responsibility too...  if he feels ignored, he needs to assert himself.  At some point, he has to become selfish a bit and stop being a team guy.

CR7 is and should be the focal point.  He's been outstanding.  Prior to 2012, he was terrible in big games... but that's no longer the case.  HOWEVER, We need to not force it to CR7 so much.  It will come back to bite us again because teams like Bayern will force us to go elsewhere and we won't be ready if we're not a bit more balanced.

My gripe is this:
-  Benz and Higuain were great soldiers and worked hard.  The one who is here now deserves a look... he earned it.  We're a year away from Benguain scoring the most goals ever from the CF position (probably assists too).  Last year was a mess for almost everyone... give the kid a break ffs.
-  Fair enough if we had bought Suarez, Falcao, Cavani, Ibra or Rooney.  But frakkin Bale!  Give me a break.

well said, fully agree

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