Hazard was the best player in France for back to back seasons before he came to the PL .leagues actually outside Italy, England and Spain actually exist you clowns so yes he is a Top 20 player.

ynwa wrote:Wasn't he 21 in 05/06?

He was 21 in 06-07, the season he was 2nd at balon dor.

Mehdrid fans ruining another thread (aside from sportsczy)

Abramovich wrote:Mehdrid fans ruining another thread (aside from sportsczy)

Forgot Isco, sorry.

Valkyrja wrote:

3lite wrote:

sportsczy wrote:Don't worry Mamad... everyone here likes to insult French players in general, not just Benz.  I've come to ignore it for the most part.  I remember 2 years ago when i felt Abidal was the best defensive LB in the world and maybe the best period if you prefer defensive attributes in your fullbacks... i got destroyed lol.  

It's not worth the energy.  Let it be.

He isn't French. He's Belgium, more Muslim.

Valkyrja wrote:

Hazard isn't a top 20 player today.

Asinine. Name me 20 players better than Hazard.

Messi, Ronaldo, Ozil, Iniesta, Ribery, Muller, Reus, Gotze, El Sharaawy, Bale, Suarez, Ibra, Moura, Xavi, Mata, Pirlo, Schweinsteiger, Thiago Silva

are you serious with moura and el sharaawy ?

Technically, Hazard won't be able to score such lofty figures since he isn't the focal point of scoring but that's captain obvious fact in itself. On a personal opinion vibe, I don't think he has that consistent scoring touch on him but I've been proven wrong countless times.

Hazard is a "top 20" player though if you're into that ranking shit.

Harmonica wrote:Messi - Hazard

Season 09-10 - 12-13
League La Liga - Premier
League GpG 2.71 - 2.80

Games 35 - 34

Scoring Messi
Goals 34 - 9
Shots per goal 4.8 - 7

Passing Messi
Assists 10 - 11
Through balls 26 - 5
Key Passes 65 - 65
Long balls 47 - 40
Crosses 22 - 18
Passes 1328 - 1297
Pass accuracy 86% - 85%

Build up Messi
Dribbles 145- 62
Dispossessed 89 - 62
Turnovers 104 - 61

Defensive Messi
Tackles 31 - 28
Interceptions 41 - 37
Dribbled by 17 - 25
Clearances 0 - 6
Blocked shots 0 - 0

Hazard maybe could become player like Cronaldo who hogs every chance team sets, put even then I don't see him score as much as him. Messi on the other hand is completely different league all together, and for to match his feats is completely impossible.

Good, someone who hasn't watched hazard. Stats don't tell you the whole story, maybe actually watching football is what you should do..
oh wait..


Build up Messi
Dribbles 145- 62
Dispossessed 89 - 62
Turnovers 104 - 61

Defensive Messi
Tackles 31 - 28
Interceptions 41 - 37
Dribbled by 17 - 25
Clearances 0 - 6
Blocked shots 0 - 0

^exactly the reason why your stats are crap :lol:tackles? is that really necessary? Or you just want to praise your god more  

[/quote]Messi, Ronaldo, Ozil, Iniesta, Ribery, Muller, Reus, Gotze, El Sharaawy, Bale, Suarez, Ibra, Moura, Xavi, Mata, Pirlo, Schweinsteiger, Thiago Silva[/quote]


He's better than all in bold at this current time in my opinion, pretty shocked there is no Robben or RVP on that list as well.

Also it's difficult to compare defenders to attacking players as their abilities are two different sides of the coin so based on that if you're going to compare Thiago Silva it would open the door to countless players.

Better than Muller, Reus, Gotze or Ozil?

Stahp. The only one you can argue is Ozil, and even then Ozil takes the cake for now.

As for Hazard, laugh at him if you want but I love the ambition and he has the talent and potential. I think it's great he has such lofty ambitions, and while I don't think he'll ever be a 50-60 goal player, I think he'll be a ridiculously good player and it's impossible for me to say he CAN'T be that player. Who would have thought Ronaldo would have been the player he is?

CBarca wrote:Better than Muller, Reus, Gotze or Ozil?

Stahp. The only one you can argue is Ozil, and even then Ozil takes the cake for now.

As for Hazard, laugh at him if you want but I love the ambition and he has the talent and potential. I think it's great he has such lofty ambitions, and while I don't think he'll ever be a 50-60 goal player, I think he'll be a ridiculously good player and it's impossible for me to say he CAN'T be that player. Who would have thought Ronaldo would have been the player he is?

There isn't much in it with them players as of this moment, player of the year in French football two seasons in a row and he was hardly bad in his opening season in the Premier league.

Muller is a great player but technically Hazard is on another level, Reus I could make the biggest case for but I'd like to see him do it over a couple of seasons first, Gotze is a special player but young and still has room to grow as a player and Ozil just isn't as good as he looked when he first broke on to the scene.

I'll give you SES and Moura..... but the rest are better than Hazard at this point in time IMO and while Hazard maybe more talented than Muller but until he shows it consistently it means nothing to me.

Talent doesn't even come into the equation as you need a lot more than talent.... Muller is a big match performer, consistent, ridiculously intelligent.

Hazard doesn't come close to him in those departments yet.

Hazard isn't an intelligent player?

I'll give you big games I guess.

And how isn't he consistent lol?

only guy who might be better than hazard (for now) is Messi. The rest dont stand a chance in terms of talent and potential.

Gil wrote:Hazard isn't an intelligent player?

I'll give you big games I guess.

And how isn't he consistent lol?

He is but nowhere near as intelligent as Muller and no he isn't consistent.

And even if he was you are comparing to him a player who consistently performs for club and country at the very highest level.

I.E CL, WC, Euros etc etc.

Messi, Ronaldo, Ozil, Iniesta, Ribery, Muller, Reus, Gotze, El Sharaawy, Bale, Suarez, Ibra, Moura, Xavi, Mata, Pirlo, Schweinsteiger, Thiago Silva[/quote]


He's better than all in bold at this current time in my opinion, pretty shocked there is no Robben or RVP on that list as well.

Also it's difficult to compare defenders to attacking players as their abilities are two different sides of the coin so based on that if you're going to compare Thiago Silva it would open the door to countless players. [/quote]

Don't judge Ozil on this season(still had a better season than Hazard), when every Madrid player beside Ronaldo was sub par. Compare him based on his NT matches for example.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

Gil wrote:Hazard isn't an intelligent player?

I'll give you big games I guess.

And how isn't he consistent lol?

He is but nowhere near as intelligent as Muller and no he isn't consistent.

And even if he was you are comparing to him a player who consistently performs for club and country at the very highest level.

I.E CL, WC, Euros etc etc.

Muller plays on a stacked team for both club and country and isn't the main man for either team. Huge difference between the two in terms of expectations and pressure.

Just stop claiming Hazard isn't intelligent. You're obviously wrong on that and you know it. You only said that because Muller doesn't have as much technical ability and flair.

And how isn't Hazard consistent? He was back to back young player of the year in France and then followed that up with consecutive POTY awards in his final two years. He had a frighteningly good start to the season for us, was poor following Di Matteo's sacking and was by far our best player in the closing stages of it. Above average season for a 22 year old in his debut season.

Where did i ever say Hazard isn't intelligent ? he obviously is but Muller is one of the most intelligent players around.

I don't care what Hazard did in France fact is.... for 2/3 of the season he was nowhere to be seen and Mata had to carry his backside.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Where did i ever say Hazard isn't intelligent ? he obviously is but Muller is one of the most intelligent players around.

I don't care what Hazard did in France fact is.... for 2/3 of the season he was nowhere to be seen and Mata had to carry his backside.

You are aware Muller lost his place for club and country the season before last so you could argue both players have had their average seasons, Muller's biggest asset is his ability to be in the right place at the right time and he weighs in with some hugely important goals. As a player he looks very messy at times and a lot of his work is all about hard graft.

I'd point to the goal Hazard scored at Old Trafford in the FA Cup, Muller isn't capable of producing a goal as good as that.

Doesn't matter though, as said earlier talent means nothing if a lesser talent is able to be more effective and perform on a more regular basis.

Until Hazard does this then he doesn't belong in the same league as Muller.

For one thing, Hazard has been poor in every single one of his CL performances while Muller consistently performs and was one of the best players of the competition last year.

I'm not really interested in talent when discussing players i'm interested in performance and Hazard isn't close to Muller at this point in time in this regard.

I'll bump this thread next season.

No sane manager would take Muller over Hazaed.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Doesn't matter though, as said earlier talent means nothing if a lesser talent is able to be more effective and perform on a more regular basis.

Until Hazard does this then he doesn't belong in the same league as Muller.

For one thing, Hazard has been poor in every single one of his CL performances while Muller consistently performs and was one of the best players of the competition last year.

I'm not really interested in talent when discussing players i'm interested in performance and Hazard isn't close to Muller at this point in time in this regard.

It does help Muller that he's in a Bayern side like the current one, and his national team isn't to shoddy either, Hazard has joined a Chelsea side in transition and a change of league as well. As far as I'm concerned Hazard has the higher ceiling in terms of talent where as Muller has reached his ceiling and it's clear he's performing to the maximum of his ability.

Put it this way, of the Bayern players in the current set up he's the most likely to be dropped for Gotze.

The Devil wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Doesn't matter though, as said earlier talent means nothing if a lesser talent is able to be more effective and perform on a more regular basis.

Until Hazard does this then he doesn't belong in the same league as Muller.

For one thing, Hazard has been poor in every single one of his CL performances while Muller consistently performs and was one of the best players of the competition last year.

I'm not really interested in talent when discussing players i'm interested in performance and Hazard isn't close to Muller at this point in time in this regard.

It does help Muller that he's in a Bayern side like the current one, and his national team isn't to shoddy either, Hazard has joined a Chelsea side in transition and a change of league as well. As far as I'm concerned Hazard has the higher ceiling in terms of talent where as Muller has reached his ceiling and it's clear he's performing to the maximum of his ability.

Put it this way, of the Bayern players in the current set up he's the most likely to be dropped for Gotze.

Muller reached his potential at 23 ? Besides he is only 1 year older than Hazard

Valkyrja wrote:

The Devil wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Doesn't matter though, as said earlier talent means nothing if a lesser talent is able to be more effective and perform on a more regular basis.

Until Hazard does this then he doesn't belong in the same league as Muller.

For one thing, Hazard has been poor in every single one of his CL performances while Muller consistently performs and was one of the best players of the competition last year.

I'm not really interested in talent when discussing players i'm interested in performance and Hazard isn't close to Muller at this point in time in this regard.

It does help Muller that he's in a Bayern side like the current one, and his national team isn't to shoddy either, Hazard has joined a Chelsea side in transition and a change of league as well. As far as I'm concerned Hazard has the higher ceiling in terms of talent where as Muller has reached his ceiling and it's clear he's performing to the maximum of his ability.

Put it this way, of the Bayern players in the current set up he's the most likely to be dropped for Gotze.

Muller reached his potential at 23 ? Besides he is only 1 year older than Hazard

Not sure what you're suggesting, just because he's only a year older doesn't mean that their development should be at the same pace, Muller has been exposed to a system and team that suits his game all through his young career where as Hazard has built his reputation with lesser players.

If Hazard had been in the same Bayern team for five years like Muller he'd be one of their main men if not their main attacking player.

The Devil wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Doesn't matter though, as said earlier talent means nothing if a lesser talent is able to be more effective and perform on a more regular basis.

Until Hazard does this then he doesn't belong in the same league as Muller.

For one thing, Hazard has been poor in every single one of his CL performances while Muller consistently performs and was one of the best players of the competition last year.

I'm not really interested in talent when discussing players i'm interested in performance and Hazard isn't close to Muller at this point in time in this regard.

It does help Muller that he's in a Bayern side like the current one, and his national team isn't to shoddy either, Hazard has joined a Chelsea side in transition and a change of league as well. As far as I'm concerned Hazard has the higher ceiling in terms of talent where as Muller has reached his ceiling and it's clear he's performing to the maximum of his ability.

Put it this way, of the Bayern players in the current set up he's the most likely to be dropped for Gotze.

I do agree with that, but having said that i'm talking about the here and now and right now Hazard has a lot of work to do to be mentioned alongside people like this.

I understand Chelsea are in transition etc etc but still at the very top level ( CL) he has has flattered to deceive and that is being nice.

Again with the Müller underrating

I guess people will never prefer pure efficiency and intelligence to flashy shit with no end product.

Müller has clearly reached his ceiling at 23 frakking years old .

The ironic thing is that if Müller came out with what Hazard was saying, he's one of the few players that I'd take seriously. If he brushes up his finishing a bit, he has all the skills to be a legendary poacher.

Please, we all know Hazard is talented, but he's no where as proven as Müller.

Müller plays in a stacked club. So Chelsea is shit all of a sudden and ain't stacked? Well, that's a surprise.

Sushi Master wrote:Again with the Müller underrating

I guess people will never prefer pure efficiency and intelligence to flashy shit with no end product.

Müller has clearly reached his ceiling at 23 frakking years old .

The ironic thing is that if Müller came out with what Hazard was saying, he's one of the few players that I'd take seriously. If he brushes up his finishing a bit, he has all the skills to be a legendary poacher.

Please, we all know Hazard is talented, but he's no where as proven as Müller.

Müller plays in a stacked club. :lol:So Chelsea is shit all of a sudden and ain't stacked? Well, that's a surprise.

Tell us how Muller can improve his game then?

It's clear he's a great player but it's equally as clear he plays efficient and to the best of his ability, there is no sign he can all of a sudden add anything extra to his game or all of sudden become anything but a great poacher. Nobody has took a dig at the guy or said he's not a great player, to put it simple Hazard has the ability to be a world player of the year whilst Muller will always be a cog in a wheel.