From being one of the rising powers in Spain last year to 6 points off relegation this season. What exactly went wrong and what should be done to get Bilbao back in track ?

Was the loss of martinez that significant ? Or the ostracisation of Llorente is what is causing this ? Maybe it's Bilbao's philosophy?

Thoughts?

RealGunner wrote:From being one of the rising powers in Spain last year to 6 points off relegation this season.

Thoughts?

They finished 10th mate.

Hence "Rising"

bielsa is a short-term manager

I feel sorry for Euskadi fans ... They deserve more than those spanish sc...
Euskadi Ta Askatasuna

Waiting for Arquitecto's kilometric post...

Respect

Javi Martinez is a traitor,that's what happened.He forced his way out of the club at the first possible opportunity.Athletic had a great season last year,they got a little tired towards the end and got beat by 2 better teams in the finals but they could have bought 1 or 2 players,grew as players and as a team and improved this year.

But Martinez had to ruin it,Llorente weren't much better but you could understand him wanting to leave as he is 27 now and probably wants to win something and it's his last chance of getting a big contract.But Aduriz is a good enough replacement for him.Martinez is harder to replace as a player and not only that but his petulance and disloyalty must have leaved a bad atmosphere at the club which carried on into this season.

I have always liked Athletic because of their Basque only policy(even that is been watered down now from having to be racially Basque to just been born there) and they have a lot of history,plus the team last year were a joy to watch,especially their run in the Europa League.

This is one of my biggest gripes with modern football,the money vultures are making it increasingly difficult for medium sized clubs to build good teams.They just tap up the players and offer them stupid wages without any remorse for what they are doing.

I can guarantee you RG, that you will receive little input from this thread given that Cataracho and I are the only Athletic Club followers here. The rest will be based on half assed assumptions. I can see 'em coming.

Want to know what happened? I'll start.

Marcelo Bielsa an avid student of Basque and Dutch Football comes in to replace a the pragmatic Caparros. He immediately Athletic's and the Basque footballing philosophy in high end pressing, constant interchanging forward lines, false midfielders switching positions within the blink of an eye etc etc.

The training is brutal, tactical and meticulously detailed to the point of insanity. In other words. Basque to the core.

Bielsa's formation as his best throughout the season were quintessentially, the 4-2-3-1 and the 3-4-3 diamond along with a 3-5-2 modification. 4-3-3 is his favourite but worked with mixed results going black and white.

What he did was brilliant. He developed Jon Aurtunexte and unearth his world class potential. Showed that Iraola as a wingback is devastatingly good on attack. Itturaspe trusted as the midfield general showing his superb range of passing and excellent defensive positioning. Javi? When he wasn't bossing midfields with Itu he was playing CB and doing a fine job there. Then there was the versatile De Marcos who played in front as a CAM rotating often with Ander Herrera (brilliant playmaker) while Munian given a free role on the left with option to interchange with Susaeta on the flanks as inside attacking midfielders with Susaeta providing the bulk of the width. He trusted Fernando Llorente as more than just a #9 unlike Caparros who played him restricted with long balls on his way. Llorente's false 9 position was a revelation with his dropping deep, creating links, creating chances and dominating back lines like anything. He was trusted into the complete forward that he is.

Problem then arose.

1. Bielsa had a knack for rotating players who didn't need to be rotated and did not rotate and rest the players who needed to rest. The sheer fatigue in training of the Basque philosophy eventually started to catch up to Atheltic's squad. The training not only was brutal physically but mentally tested them to their limits. Bielsa's perfectionism in training was starting to catch up. Keep in mind this is/was the youngest Spanish team in La Liga today.

2. La Liga, Europa League, Copa Del Rey all with all players starting and not being rotated correctly. Fatigue mentally and physically taking its toll increasingly.

3. And of course, my biggest criticism. Bielsa as mentioned is a perfectionist. Athletic finally found the original Euskadi system to work and the increasing momentum devastated teams. Yet Bielsa's biggest strength was his biggest flaw....He kept on changing the Basque systems to other variances, which is fine to an extent given their training since childhood to adopt to those. The problem was he changed the formation too many times. Instead of following through with the philosophy and system he tried eventually too many times to adapt to the opposition's tactics, effectively abandoning the dominant identity of Athletic's unearthed footballing way. Formations changed almost every game. Atheltic destroy Man United with a 3-5-2? Oh, scrap that and go back to the 4-3-3. 4-2-3-1 working vs Madrid first half? Scrap that and change the formation for absolutely no reason, thus letting Madrid destroy Atheltic. The consistent change of formations and systema disillusioned, alienated and mentally destroyed the young squad and setting their development back, and burning them out completely. Each and everyone of the squad bar Muniain, Iraola, Javi, De Marcos were completely burnt out. Llorente out of all was completely destroyed.He then scrapped plans again and again and again until the Basque philosophy lost its core identity and became into a bunch of burnouts attempting the same systema, just without the quick and tactical pressing, interchanging and domination from the spread. Did I mention half of the players with the changing formations were consistently forced out of their best roles in the 2nd half of the season?

Take #1 and #2 and combine it #3 and you have a complete disaster which occured 2nd half of the season along with the tactics moving onto be more conventional and uninspired. Not to mention the best formations were abandoned for the bloody 4-3-3 which further added to the burnout process. Barca, Madrid, Atheltic in the EL final all took advantage and exploited the weaknesses perfectly. Oh yeah, and remember how devastated Athletic were after being destroyed both finals? I once mentioned how badly us Euskadi take losses. Losing 3-0 in both finals was the gold nail in the coffin. I said after that it'll take a year to bounce back from that especially given the youth of this squad.

Ever wonder why Bielsa is called El Loco? He is a genius, but a flawed genius.

New season begins and the players get little time to even recover after being called early upon from the holidays and now you have Bielsa starting from scratch and playing a very uninspired, conservative, and conventional system which is restrictive to most of the players, doesn't use them to their strengths and frankly...isn't Basque.

Bilbai's and the players love Bielsa and frankly so do I but his near maniacal tendencies in all forms above has destabilized their development and the mentality which made them successful. The players look a shadow of themselves almost. Munain, Itu, De Marcos, Susaeta etc are all performing but nowhere near to what they can do and its systemically, tactically Bielsa's fault right now. The loss of Javi wasn't as big as many expected as Iturrapse filled that void. Llorente was a huge loss since his False 9 role and creativity made the front tick along with Ander, De Marcos and Munain. Aduriz is a solid player but in the end he thrives within the box and defines Bielsa's tactics this season, which is conservative and almost self concious.

I'm still hoping for him to find sanity and resort back to what the Bilbai's are shouting for and that is to stop changing the system like clothes, rest the goddamn players, rotate more effetively and play them in their position stick to what worked best, stick to the Basque way.

I still have faith in the long term project of Bielsa as the fans need to as well. It'll be slow to crawl out of the hole he has dug himself but he has all the resources and potential to do so. The squad is full of talent, hunger and potential.

Positives and progress is there, but for every one step forward its two steps back at the moment.

Arquitecto wrote:I can guarantee you RG, that you will receive little input from this thread given that Cataracho and I are the only Athletic Club followers here. The rest will be based on half assed assumptions. I can see 'em coming.

Want to know what happened? I'll start.

Marcelo Bielsa an avid student of Basque and Dutch Football comes in to replace a the pragmatic Caparros. He immediately Athletic's and the Basque footballing philosophy in high end pressing, constant interchanging forward lines, false midfielders switching positions within the blink of an eye etc etc.

The training is brutal, tactical and meticulously detailed to the point of insanity. In other words. Basque to the core.

Bielsa's formation as his best throughout the season were quintessentially, the 4-2-3-1 and the 3-4-3 diamond along with a 3-5-2 modification. 4-3-3 is his favourite but worked with mixed results going black and white.

What he did was brilliant. He developed Jon Aurtunexte and unearth his world class potential. Showed that Iraola as a wingback is devastatingly good on attack. Itturaspe trusted as the midfield general showing his superb range of passing and excellent defensive positioning. Javi? When he wasn't bossing midfields with Itu he was playing CB and doing a fine job there. Then there was the versatile De Marcos who played in front as a CAM rotating often with Ander Herrera (brilliant playmaker) while Munian given a free role on the left with option to interchange with Susaeta on the flanks as inside attacking midfielders with Susaeta providing the bulk of the width. He trusted Fernando Llorente as more than just a #9 unlike Caparros who played him restricted with long balls on his way. Llorente's false 9 position was a revelation with his dropping deep, creating links, creating chances and dominating back lines like anything. He was trusted into the complete forward that he is.

Problem then arose.

1. Bielsa had a knack for rotating players who didn't need to be rotated and did not rotate and rest the players who needed to rest. The sheer fatigue in training of the Basque philosophy eventually started to catch up to Atheltic's squad. The training not only was brutal physically but mentally tested them to their limits. Bielsa's perfectionism in training was starting to catch up. Keep in mind this is/was the youngest Spanish team in La Liga today.

2. La Liga, Europa League, Copa Del Rey all with all players starting and not being rotated correctly. Fatigue mentally and physically taking its toll increasingly.

3. And of course, my biggest criticism. Bielsa as mentioned is a perfectionist. Athletic finally found the original Euskadi system to work and the increasing momentum devastated teams. Yet Bielsa's biggest strength was his biggest flaw....He kept on changing the Basque systems to other variances, which is fine to an extent given their training since childhood to adopt to those. The problem was he changed the formation too many times. Instead of following through with the philosophy and system he tried eventually too many times to adapt to the opposition's tactics, effectively abandoning the dominant identity of Athletic's unearthed footballing way. Formations changed almost every game. Atheltic destroy Man United with a 3-5-2? Oh, scrap that and go back to the 4-3-3. 4-2-3-1 working vs Madrid first half? Scrap that and change the formation for absolutely no reason, thus letting Madrid destroy Atheltic. The consistent change of formations and systema disillusioned, alienated and mentally destroyed the young squad and setting their development back, and burning them out completely. Each and everyone of the squad bar Muniain, Iraola, Javi, De Marcos were completely burnt out. Llorente out of all was completely destroyed.He then scrapped plans again and again and again until the Basque philosophy lost its core identity and became into a bunch of burnouts attempting the same systema, just without the quick and tactical pressing, interchanging and domination from the spread. Did I mention half of the players with the changing formations were consistently forced out of their best roles in the 2nd half of the season?

Take #1 and #2 and combine it #3 and you have a complete disaster which occured 2nd half of the season along with the tactics moving onto be more conventional and uninspired. Not to mention the best formations were abandoned for the bloody 4-3-3 which further added to the burnout process. Barca, Madrid, Atheltic in the EL final all took advantage and exploited the weaknesses perfectly. Oh yeah, and remember how devastated Athletic were after being destroyed both finals? I once mentioned how badly us Euskadi take losses. Losing 3-0 in both finals was the gold nail in the coffin. I said after that it'll take a year to bounce back from that especially given the youth of this squad.

Ever wonder why Bielsa is called El Loco? He is a genius, but a flawed genius.

New season begins and the players get little time to even recover after being called early upon from the holidays and now you have Bielsa starting from scratch and playing a very uninspired, conservative, and conventional system which is restrictive to most of the players, doesn't use them to their strengths and frankly...isn't Basque.

Bilbai's and the players love Bielsa and frankly so do I but his near maniacal tendencies in all forms above has destabilized their development and the mentality which made them successful. The players look a shadow of themselves almost. Munain, Itu, De Marcos, Susaeta etc are all performing but nowhere near to what they can do and its systemically, tactically Bielsa's fault right now. The loss of Javi wasn't as big as many expected as Iturrapse filled that void. Llorente was a huge loss since his False 9 role and creativity made the front tick along with Ander, De Marcos and Munain. Aduriz is a solid player but in the end he thrives within the box and defines Bielsa's tactics this season, which is conservative and almost self concious.

I'm still hoping for him to find sanity and resort back to what the Bilbai's are shouting for and that is to stop changing the system like clothes, rest the goddamn players, rotate more effetively and play them in their position stick to what worked best, stick to the Basque way.

I still have faith in the long term project of Bielsa as the fans need to as well. It'll be slow to crawl out of the hole he has dug himself but he has all the resources and potential to do so. The squad is full of talent, hunger and potential.

Positives and progress is there, but for every one step forward its two steps back at the moment.

Wow great post very informative, I've heard stories of Bielsa being a perfectionist but I never knew it was that bad. It's a shame how Bilbao are playing this season as I loved the way they dominated last, I just thought maybe they were a little naive in the EL final especially.

I do hope they can get themselves back to similar form because some of the football they played last season was wonderful

Lol and we've yet to sign anyone!!! Ander ended the season horribly thanks to Biesla.. he was benched for BOTH finals!!!! WTF!!! I was so angry.. almost cried bro.. almost mfin cried at Biesla's stupidity those two nights.

We still want Benat back home... Never gonna happen from the looks of things. That Bayonnaise French kid at CB looks promising, and so does Ramalho. I'm excited that we have one of the best canteras globally, but somethings got to give with Bielsa and his constant tactical realignments. Next season will really be a season that stamps Bielsa's career at San Mames.

Bielsa is destroying the players. There have been half a dozen surgeries because of stress injuries since his arrival. Towards the end of last season players were already pumped with painkillers to survive the end of the season. His training regime is retarded. There are also huge dressing room problems. The Athletic president refuses to let players go who want to escape those training conditions and portrays them as traitors. The Martinez saga was a disgrace but the Llorente situation is even worse. The abuse he receives from the fans since summer is unreal.

Thanks for that highly interesting piece of information, Arqui!

I think if a player agrees to a paycut of about 10 mio Euros over his 5 years contract to make a transfer happen (as it was reported in the Javi Martínez transfer), this speaks some volumes about his desire to get out. BTW, if you look at images of Javi, IMO he appears much more relaxed and happy on photos now that he is in Munich.

It sounds as if Bielsa is as much of a drill sergeant as Magath is - and more often than not Magath's players wish only to flee his tight ship, too.

Arq thanks for that great post. Atheltic and Valencia are my 2nd prefered teams in La Liga, and seeing Atheltic in such state really makes me feel sorry for them. I mean I want them to be in top 4 all the time.

Do you think el Loco will actually revert to his initial strategy and improve the rotations? Or you simply have to find a new coach? I would actually love to se Pep there, although I know that would never happen.

Possibly, racism isn't a great recruitment policy, and there can only be so many Basque players you can get, considering some of them might want to move abroad and will not care about your provincial, political shit.
/polemic rant

Seriously though, their player pool is artificially limited and there's only so much you can do with that, especially if you're unable to hold all the viable talent due to financial reasons.

I also have no reason to doubt that Arq is right.

They don't even have the Basque rule anymore,Ramalho isn't Basque but he was born there so he can play for them now.In the very recent past he wouldn't have been allowed to play for them.If they are going to allow this type of rubbish to go on they might as well scrap the so called Basque rule,it's either 'every player has to be Basque' or 'anyone can play for us'.None of this watered down nonsense.

worms wrote:They don't even have the Basque rule anymore,Ramalho isn't Basque but he was born there so he can play for them now.In the very recent past he wouldn't have been allowed to play for them.If they are going to allow this type of rubbish to go on they might as well scrap the so called Basque rule,it's either 'every player has to be Basque' or 'anyone can play for us'.None of this watered down nonsense.

Fool, Jonas is half Basque.. iirc, one of his parents is Basque and the other is Angolan. HE HAS A BASQUE PARENT WHICH VERY WELL MEANS HE'S AS BASQUE AS ME OR ANY OTHER BASQUE.

How bout this for perspective.. Jonas is MORE basque than Fernando Llorente is.. iirc Llorente wasnt even born in our region nor was his parents. durrrrrrr hurrrrr

Seriously, in the age of globalization, internationalization, and the European Union, how can you manage to give a shit in which valley a dude is born?

VivaStPauli wrote:Possibly, racism isn't a great recruitment policy, and there can only be so many Basque players you can get, considering some of them might want to move abroad and will not care about your provincial, political shit.
/polemic rant

Seriously though, their player pool is artificially limited and there's only so much you can do with that, especially if you're unable to hold all the viable talent due to financial reasons.

I also have no reason to doubt that Arq is right.

Problem is The Basque teams are really good at locking down their borders, so not if any talent really seeps out of Euskadi without Real Sociedad or Athletic Bilbao knowing. Same for Osasuna.

Plus the player pool is good.. You haven't seen a lack of talent at Bilbao or Sociedad have you?? iirc last season or two seasons ago Bilbao's Youth teams won their respective youth tourneys over the bigger teams like Real Madrid etc.

And ppl forget theres a French Basque. Bayonne has been very good to Basque teams in the past with the likes of Deschamps, Lizarazu. Antoine Griezmann did his schooling and some of his training in Bayonne. Aymeric Laporte is currently a French Basque kid at Bilbao, currently on the first team.

VivaStPauli wrote:Seriously, in the age of globalization, internationalization, and the European Union, how can you manage to give a shit in which valley a dude is born?

Its our philosophy, it helps keep our culture alive while others have seemed to die out.

Problem?

Catracho wrote:

worms wrote:They don't even have the Basque rule anymore,Ramalho isn't Basque but he was born there so he can play for them now.In the very recent past he wouldn't have been allowed to play for them.If they are going to allow this type of rubbish to go on they might as well scrap the so called Basque rule,it's either 'every player has to be Basque' or 'anyone can play for us'.None of this watered down nonsense.

Fool, Jonas is half Basque.. iirc, one of his parents is Basque and the other is Angolan. HE HAS A BASQUE PARENT WHICH VERY WELL MEANS HE'S AS BASQUE AS ME OR ANY OTHER BASQUE.

How bout this for perspective.. Jonas is MORE basque than Fernando Llorente is.. iirc Llorente wasnt even born in our region nor was his parents. durrrrrrr hurrrrr

Someone who is half Basque is as Basque as somebody who is fully Basque? Wow,nice logic.

Can't you see you're contradicting yourself by saying someone is half Angolan then saying he's Basque?He can't be fully Basque and half Angolan unless he counts as 1.5 of a normal person.

I was aware that some of the other players as well as Ramalho are not actually Basque.Because the club has been expanding their required criteria for a player for a while now.On the issue of Llorente I am not sure but he might be racially Basque even though his parents weren't born in the Basque country but nearby?Those few other players who are not Basque however and are still Spanish and are very similar racially to Basques.Two wrongs don't make a right though,they should have either kept it all Basque or changed their policy to allow any one to play for them.This wavering on the issue is making the club look undecided in which direction it wants to go.

Catracho wrote:

VivaStPauli wrote:Seriously, in the age of globalization, internationalization, and the European Union, how can you manage to give a shit in which valley a dude is born?

Its our philosophy, it helps keep our culture alive while others have seemed to die out.

Problem?

I have a problem,you pretend that your club is keeping it's culture alive by only allowing Basque players or players from the surrounding area of the Basque country to play for you.

To keep up this superiority complex you have to make up excuses for foreign players like Ramalho to play for you,a player who wouldn't have been allowed to play for your team just 10 years ago,yet you still say you are keeping your culture alive despite the fact the erosion of your clubs culture and principles has now begun.

I bet you will still be sitting there in 20 years time watching your beloved Atheltic team with majority foreign players saying "we are unique,we are keeping our culture alive".

For some people who have countries, flags, national teams etc. it is hard to understand the idea of having a philosophy that represents you as a nationality, when you are not allowed to have your country and your national team.

Worms wrote:
Javi Martinez is a traitor,that's what happened.He forced his way out of the club at the first possible opportunity.Athletic had a great season last year,they got a little tired towards the end and got beat by 2 better teams in the finals but they could have bought 1 or 2 players,grew as players and as a team and improved this year.

But Martinez had to ruin it,Llorente weren't much better but you could understand him wanting to leave as he is 27 now and probably wants to win something and it's his last chance of getting a big contract.But Aduriz is a good enough replacement for him.Martinez is harder to replace as a player and not only that but his petulance and disloyalty must have leaved a bad atmosphere at the club which carried on into this season.

I have always liked Athletic because of their Basque only policy(even that is been watered down now from having to be racially Basque to just been born there) and they have a lot of history,plus the team last year were a joy to watch,especially their run in the Europa League.

This is one of my biggest gripes with modern football,the money vultures are making it increasingly difficult for medium sized clubs to build good teams.They just tap up the players and offer them stupid wages without any remorse for what they are doing.

They don't even have the Basque rule anymore,Ramalho isn't Basque but he was born there so he can play for them now.In the very recent past he wouldn't have been allowed to play for them.If they are going to allow this type of rubbish to go on they might as well scrap the so called Basque rule,it's either 'every player has to be Basque' or 'anyone can play for us'.None of this watered down nonsense

Someone who is half Basque is as Basque as somebody who is fully Basque? Wow,nice logic.

Can't you see you're contradicting yourself by saying someone is half Angolan then saying he's Basque?He can't be fully Basque and half Angolan unless he counts as 1.5 of a normal person.

I was aware that some of the other players as well as Ramalho are not actually Basque.Because the club has been expanding their required criteria for a player for a while now.On the issue of Llorente I am not sure but he might be racially Basque even though his parents weren't born in the Basque country but nearby?Those few other players who are not Basque however and are still Spanish and are very similar racially to Basques.Two wrongs don't make a right though,they should have either kept it all Basque or changed their policy to allow any one to play for them.This wavering on the issue is making the club look undecided in which direction it wants to go.

I have a problem,you pretend that your club is keeping it's culture alive by only allowing Basque players or players from the surrounding area of the Basque country to play for you.

To keep up this superiority complex you have to make up excuses for foreign players like Ramalho to play for you,a player who wouldn't have been allowed to play for your team just 10 years ago,yet you still say you are keeping your culture alive despite the fact the erosion of your clubs culture and principles has now begun.

I bet you will still be sitting there in 20 years time watching your beloved Atheltic team with majority foreign players saying "we are unique,we are keeping our culture alive".

Let me correct you on a few things here:

1. Javi Martinez is NOT a traitor. He pushed by Urrutia to be sold due to the magnanimous offer received by Bayern Munich as Javi himself clearly stated his desire to stay. While he accepted the move in the end he did not catalyse the move in any form despite what the tabloids said. Llorente on the other hand did and wants a move. Javi did not. Javi wasn't as hard to replace as that is Llorente and the team suffers without his presence. Javi was actually pushed back into the CB role because Ander Iturraspe was performing better than his role within the midfield. It was a great loss to lose their future captain out of depth and options but Llorente is a far greater loss at the moment.

2. On what basis is the Basque rule watered down? Since 1898 onwards they have kept the same policy. Ever wonder why? Since the inception of the Basque success Athletic stuck to the Basque policy since the Euskadi have their own preferred method of physical, mental and footballing training which has been used for almost a century in raising the Basque youth. It is kept similar to why Barcelona prefer their youth products since they are trained in Cruyff's ways. Unlike Barcelona, Atheltic Club have followed this method of sticking close to the Basque footballing and tactical philosophy for over 80 years now. Which is why they prefer players ingrained from the Basque ways since their training.

3. It is a way to preserve the Euskadi ways since our province is an autonomous province and self governed as its the best possible way to bring Basque football back onto the map as it always was. Unlike clubs who only care about wins and trophies, Atheltic and the Basque rule in general is to fund the progress of Basque football by raising Basque youth trained in the methodology which defines our football. There is nothing wrong with this at all. The Basques love and believe in it and so do most of Espana.

4. Ramalho is Basque. Only his father is Angolan yet given that his mother is raised in Basque Country, and that he was born and raised in Basque Country, with the Basque ways, explains that your debate is fallacious as people don't see him any different than any other Basque player.

5. Llorente was born in Pampalona. Which is part of Basque Country and Basque to the core in footballing and its ways. I don't need to go further on this for obvious reasons.

6. Last year was an indication of our policy that was brought back onto the map since Bielsa is the only one to use the Basque way since Luiz Fernandez as the rest were too chickened out to play such a method. Even goes for Jupp Heynkes. Atheltic reached the EL and Copa Del Rey final which says it all. Its a sign that Basque football is making it reprisal. If we were to put a collection of all provinces in their provincial players the Basque team is the most superior on all fronts aside from the Catalan midfield. The rest don't even come close. Another sign of Basque progress along with the the strength of the Euskal Selekzioa who have blitzed several strong international teams historically while the Catalans never have even beaten us.

7. Superiority complex? Never read on Basque history and the incentive behind our ways? On why we want to separate? No offence but this comes down to ignorance.

Basque is clearly not a nationality(Hence why there is no such country as Basque),if you would actually took some time to research it you will find that Basque is a ethnicity,Basques are their own sub race.Ramalho is only half Basque,you just admitted yourself that Ramalho is half Agolan thus he can't be fully Basque.



thread/

worms wrote:Basque is clearly not a nationality(Hence why there is no such country as Basque),if you would actually took some time to research it you will find that Basque is a ethnicity,Basques are their own sub race.Ramalho is only half Basque,you just admitted yourself that Ramalho is half Agolan thus he can't be fully Basque.



thread/

Ethnicity that thrives to fulfill their right and have a country. I am sure Basques consider themselves a nation who has been wronged and robed of having a country. Ergo their desire to express themselves through clubs, as they cant have an NT.

worms wrote:Basque is clearly not a nationality(Hence why there is no such country as Basque),if you would actually took some time to research it you will find that Basque is a ethnicity,Basques are their own sub race.Ramalho is only half Basque,you just admitted yourself that Ramalho is half Agolan thus he can't be fully Basque.



thread/

Basque is a race, Basque is a language, Basque is an autonomous nation, and has existed longer than other European nations. If we weren't a nation then why do in Spanish databases do they identify those born within Euskadi as Basque AND Spanish???

Bro you suck at trolling. 1.2/10

Jonas is more Basque than he is Angolan. I don't even think he speaks fluent Portuguese. If he wasn't black we wouldn't even have this discussion you pseduo-racist hipster scum. 1.3/10

dis trollin needs to be put to an end.