I disagree. Barca are very reliant on Messi. If he got injured for a long period of time they wouldnt go far in the CL and drop more points than they do now in La Liga. Juventus arenot really reliant on any one player. Pirlo is our most important player, but weve shown that we cope just fine without him. Obviously were much netter with.him, but with Pogba in his place weve still won important games this season. Were alsi more.balanced, scoring plenty of goals but also.keeping them out. Barca lets loads of goals,l in, they just have Messi and outscore the opposition. Overall its arguable whose system is better, ita not clear cut in any way, but in my opinion, Juve has the better system.

futbol wrote:Even in the first leg Italy's 3 man defense got exposed badly once Torres came on. Torres just couldn't make the 3 clear cut chances count which he has had. Messi won't miss those.

Juventus' 3-5-2 system with no out-and-out wingers will be badly exposed in Europe this season against any team that knows how to utilize proper wing-play (ManU, Real Madrid, Dortmund etc.). Tell me more about how Lichtsteiner will handle Sanchez and Jordi Alba bombing down his flank. Another major problem for Juventus will be Pirlo being the deepest-lying midfielder. He shares the same zone as Messi. One of the 2 box-to-box midfielders (Vidal and Marchisio / Pogba) will need to help him out there as Pirlo is no defensive midfielder. Which in return will leave Xavi and Iniesta with all the freedom in the world. Or Bonucci will try to step out of his defensive line to follow Messi into midfield zones which will leave huge gaps at the back where Pedro and Fabregas can run into.

There is absolutely no way that Juventus' 3-5-2 will prevail over Barcelona's 4-3-3. That's without even taking the individual quality of the players into consideration (Barcelona are superior on every position bar goalkeeper). The system itself is flawed. It works in Serie A because a) most teams use the same system and b) there are no quality wingers or attacking fullbacks in that league anymore to exploit the weaknesses of 3-5-2. Mancini's City has already given a nice preview this season how to fail with 3-5-2.

This is such a ludicrous analysis on so many levels
1. Your entire argument rests on the tactical inflexibility of this Juventus squad, one problem, this inflexibility doesn't exist
2. Lichtsteiner is a fullback by trade, he, and the other wingbacks, understand that there are times to push forward and there are times to defend. Again, your assumption of inflexibility just doesn't hold any weight.
3. Pirlo doesn't always have to be the deepest lying midfielder, against a team like Barcelona it is quite obvious that Marchisio and Vidal will draw different assignments and have greater responsibilities defensively
4. The main thing your argument shows is how little of Juventus you watch because to be honest, these are just generalizations with no real weight

5. Your most valid (and only relevant), point is that Barcelona has superior players- and that, above tactics, is the main thing. Barcelona is at a different level from Juventus, but it's not because of Pirlo's positioning or Lichtsteiner's ability to defend.

juventus101 wrote:I hate when people use that 4-0 game as evidence for Barca over Juve. It holds no credibility.

Also, Spain is alot more than Barca withiut Messi. Ramos is thd bdst Spanish defender and is not on Barca. Silva and Alonso are top players that are not on Barca. Casillas is not on Barca. And we were missing Vidal, Lichsteiner, Asamoah, and Vucinic, some of our consistently bdst performers, and most of all Conte.

And lastly, i laugh at you saying individually every Barca player is better than Juve. I would take Chiellini or Barzagli or this season even Bonucci over any Barca CB. Lichsteiner has been better than Alves this season, Asamoah and Alba have been on par this season, when Asamoah was fresh in the beginning of the season id say he was even better, but lately he shows signs of fatigue. Buffon over Valdes no question. Id take Marchisio or Vidal over Busquets, and Pirlo over Xavi.

Barca >>>>>>>> Spain

MESSI, villa, puyol, d.alves, adriano, sanchez were missing too.


Defence-wise, you can argue otherwise. Other than that, only pirlo would make it onto the barca bench.

However if puyol-pique stay fit, barca will be very strong. After-all, they managed to contain real madrid whilst playing a defence of ;

montoya--adriano--mascherano--alba

Well beat Meelan first..Besides this is not a Juve-Barca thread.

juventus101 wrote:I disagree. Barca are very reliant on Messi. If he got injured for a long period of time they wouldnt go far in the CL and drop more points than they do now in La Liga. Juventus arenot really reliant on any one player.

If we ignore Messi's 25 goals (so hypothetically playing with 10 men), Barcelona have still scored 29 goals in 16 games as a team. That's more than the whole Inter Milan squad. And Inter are second in Serie A right now. Also in 27 games in which Messi didn't play for Barcelona, Barcelona have won 20 games. The other 7 being meaningless ones (after La Liga was already won or last CL group stage games after being qualified already). Losing Messi would be a blow. That's not rocket science. It's a blow for every team when they lose their best player. But the rest of the team are World and Euro Champions for a reason (without Messi). Playing Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta in midfield with Villa, Sanchez and Fabregas upfront would be still heavy favourites to win a game against Juventus. But then again I don't know why we are even discussing this since Messi is never injured anyway.

The idea that Marchisio or Vidal > Busquets is another ludicrous statement. Busquets' "backup" for Spain who doesn't even get into the Spain starting XI has cost Bayern € 40 million this summer. So go figure the value of Sergi Busquets, by far the best DM in world football who forced Yaya Toure out of the club and forced Mascherano to relearn a different position.

Juventus have a nice team, especially as a unit. I consider them top 6 right now. But don't delude yourself. The likes of Bonucci and Barzagli are far away from vintage Serie A defenders à la Cannavaro, Nesta, Maldini etc. Pirlo is nothing that will impress La Masia midfielders. And the forward line is lacking a proper striker.

juventus101 wrote:
And lastly, i laugh at you saying individually every Barca player is better than Juve. I would take Chiellini or Barzagli or this season even Bonucci over any Barca CB. Lichsteiner has been better than Alves this season, Asamoah and Alba have been on par this season, when Asamoah was fresh in the beginning of the season id say he was even better, but lately he shows signs of fatigue. Buffon over Valdes no question. Id take Marchisio or Vidal over Busquets, and Pirlo over Xavi. Its really just gour forward line (Messi, Villa, and Fabregas in particular) that is better than ours, but most too teams have better forwards than us at thus point. Though Vucinic and Giovinco the past few weeks have been on great form and are great players, we just need a scorer.

Your clueless. Buffon over Valdes yes but Marchisio or Vidal over the best defensive midfielder in the world? Goodness me... Pirlo over Xavi??? Goodness me...

if Bonucci over any Barca CB Lichsteiner has been better than Alves this season

thanks for the laugh

but i take Vidal over Busquet (individual comparison )

The Sanchez wrote:

juventus101 wrote:
And lastly, i laugh at you saying individually every Barca player is better than Juve. I would take Chiellini or Barzagli or this season even Bonucci over any Barca CB. Lichsteiner has been better than Alves this season, Asamoah and Alba have been on par this season, when Asamoah was fresh in the beginning of the season id say he was even better, but lately he shows signs of fatigue. Buffon over Valdes no question. Id take Marchisio or Vidal over Busquets, and Pirlo over Xavi. Its really just gour forward line (Messi, Villa, and Fabregas in particular) that is better than ours, but most too teams have better forwards than us at thus point. Though Vucinic and Giovinco the past few weeks have been on great form and are great players, we just need a scorer.

Your clueless. Buffon over Valdes yes but Marchisio or Vidal over the best defensive midfielder in the world? Goodness me... Pirlo over Xavi??? Goodness me...

pirlo-xavi comparison is like Del Piero vs Totti or Buffon vs Casillas, Gerrard vs Lampard, Maradona vs Messi totally subjective... Pirlo is performing great for 10 years now.. You can't say for sure who is better, it's a waste of time

I realise why no one likes the majority of Barca/laliga fans now

I too would take Marchisio or Vidal over Biscuits. I dont think thats as clueless as you're making out.

And id probably take Pirlo over Xavi too.

Anyway im sure this is Barse vs Meelan thread so maybe you should be preparing to get raped by Constant.

Bojan to teach the HGH fiend messi how to play. 2-1 Milan Bojan X2 and a penalty for Barse.

tuddor wrote:
pirlo-xavi comparison is like Del Piero vs Totti or Buffon vs Casillas, Gerrard vs Lampard, Maradona vs Messi totally subjective... Pirlo is performing great for 10 years now.. You can't say for sure who is better, it's a waste of time

I disagree. Pirlo is great but Xavi's ceiling is a lot higher, especially in big games. I remember him assisting 4 goals in a single game against Real Madrid in the Bernabeu. He has assisted goals in 2 consecutive CL finals and 2 consecutive Euro Cup finals. This is Xavi in his last CL final:



He's been Ballon d'Or shortlisted for 3 consecutive years and if it wasn't for possibly the greatest football player of all time (who can't perform without Xavi, they say ), he'd easily have a Ballon d'Or to his name. Pirlo never came close. It's more like a "Xavi vs. Xabi" than "Messi vs. Maradona" comparison. And if Pirlo were so consistently great, Milan wouldn't have given him away for free last year. Let's not kid ourselves here.

But yeah, this is off-topic. Milan vs. Barca it is.

How did this turn into a Juve-Barca thread

Oh right ,Baresi ..Couldnt expect anything different from you..Good job in derailing the thread.

As for this game i'll be rooting DMeelan in this game..Mainly because if they knock out one of the CL favorites for this year it will automatically boost Juve's chances of winning the CL this year..I'm not delusional , i really believe in this team ,i think we can achieve some great things this year.So i am not taking trivial rivalries into aspect here, i want whats best for Juve at the end of the day.

So i'd hope for either a Milan progression(chances are less i know) OR Barca utterly annihilate them in both legs so i can see some of these arrogant DMeelan fanboys go completely into hiding.

Cassius_Case wrote:I realise why no one likes the majority of Barca/laliga fans now

I too would take Marchisio or Vidal over Biscuits. I dont think thats as clueless as you're making out.

And id probably take Pirlo over Xavi too.

Anyway im sure this is Barse vs Meelan thread so maybe you should be preparing to get raped by Constant.

Bojan to teach the HGH fiend messi how to play. 2-1 Milan Bojan X2 and a penalty for Barse.

they(especially the new barca fans) have the impression that every of their player is the best in their position, because the media talks all day long about their players, and they can't judge themselves the value of a player because the lack of football games watched (they watch only their team, i would like to know how many of them watch mid-table games for example).. That's why they think Busquets is a class above Marchisio.. How many of you are watching marchisio on regularly basis?? if you are so good at comparing players, where's Busquets better than Marchisio? Ball control, effort, long shots, tactical knowledge, positioning, recovered balls, weak foot, passing ??? Oh i see, marchisio can't fool the referees like busquets, that's a very important thing that gives busquets the advantage and can win an UCL game...

And yeah, juve defenders don't have the class of Maldini, only Pique does, while Mascherano is somewhere like Nesta in his prime..

Look, Barca is better than Juve, nobody said otherwise.

But some of the other comments are downright ridiculous. Pirlo is nothing that will impress La Masia? Please. Whoever's better between him and Xavi is debatable, both are good players and are in the same league. Personally I'd take Pirlo any day, but in the end it's down to personal preference.

futbol wrote:

tuddor wrote:
pirlo-xavi comparison is like Del Piero vs Totti or Buffon vs Casillas, Gerrard vs Lampard, Maradona vs Messi totally subjective... Pirlo is performing great for 10 years now.. You can't say for sure who is better, it's a waste of time

I disagree. Pirlo is great but Xavi's ceiling is a lot higher, especially in big games. I remember him assisting 4 goals in a single game against Real Madrid in the Bernabeu. He has assisted goals in 2 consecutive CL finals and 2 consecutive Euro Cup finals. This is Xavi in his last CL final:



He's been Ballon d'Or shortlisted for 3 consecutive years and if it wasn't for possibly the greatest football player of all time (who can't perform without Xavi, they say ), he'd easily have a Ballon d'Or to his name. Pirlo never came close. It's more like a "Xavi vs. Xabi" than "Messi vs. Maradona" comparison. And if Pirlo were so consistently great, Milan wouldn't have given him away for free last year. Let's not kid ourselves here.

But yeah, this is off-topic. Milan vs. Barca it is.

I don't think that there's a person inside Milan who doesn't regret Pirlo's lost...
Xavi assisted in 2 Consecutive Cl finals, pirlo assisted in a world cup final too, he was the best man by far for italy at euro, best man for juve, and he played 3 ucl finals with milan with gattuso at midfield, not iniesta and messi... So, pirlo had performances comparable to xavi (world cup, 3 ucl finals, 2 won ) with inferior value team-mates at midfield... So, it's not something we can judge right...
Xavi had great performances with the best barcelona team in history, with the best player in history, while pirlo did them with average Italian teams compared to the previous Italian teams...

Was this Milan, or Deluventus vs. Barca? Good god.

Harmonica wrote:Was this Milan, or Deluventus vs. Barca? Good god.

I dont even get the Deluventus refrence?

And thats rich coming from an arseholeona fan, you mofo's hijack basically every thread on GL and turn it into a Barca Vs competition...

Surag wrote:How did this turn into a Juve-Barca thread

Oh right ,Baresi ..Couldnt expect anything different from you..Good job in derailing the thread.

As for this game i'll be rooting DMeelan in this game..Mainly because if they knock out one of the CL favorites for this year it will automatically boost Juve's chances of winning the CL this year..I'm not delusional , i really believe in this team ,i think we can achieve some great things this year.So i am not taking trivial rivalries into aspect here, i want whats best for Juve at the end of the day.

So i'd hope for either a Milan progression(chances are less i know) OR Barca utterly annihilate them in both legs so i can see some of these arrogant DMeelan fanboys go completely into hiding.

Hiding from what? from being beaten by the best team in the world? We'll exit CL with our heads held high knowing we give it our all with this squad. And if anyone's arrogant its Juve fans, if we beat you home with a half assed squad, then what will Barca do to you?

tuddor wrote:So, pirlo had performances comparable to xavi (world cup, 3 ucl finals, 2 won ) with inferior value team-mates at midfield... So, it's not something we can judge right...
Xavi had great performances with the best barcelona team in history, with the best player in history, while pirlo did them with average Italian teams compared to the previous Italian teams...

Juventus fan logic. "Pirlo > Xavi because Xavi plays for Barcelona and Pirlo plays for average teams." But at the same time:

tuddor wrote:That's why they think Busquets is a class above Marchisio.. How many of you are watching marchisio on regularly basis?? if you are so good at comparing players, where's Busquets better than Marchisio? Ball control, effort, long shots, tactical knowledge, positioning, recovered balls, weak foot, passing ??? Oh i see, marchisio can't fool the referees like busquets, that's a very important thing that gives busquets the advantage and can win an UCL game...

And yeah, juve defenders don't have the class of Maldini, only Pique does, while Mascherano is somewhere like Nesta in his prime..

juventus101 wrote:And lastly, i laugh at you saying individually every Barca player is better than Juve. I would take Chiellini or Barzagli or this season even Bonucci over any Barca CB. Lichsteiner has been better than Alves this season, Asamoah and Alba have been on par this season, when Asamoah was fresh in the beginning of the season id say he was even better, but lately he shows signs of fatigue. Buffon over Valdes no question. Id take Marchisio or Vidal over Busquets, and Pirlo over Xavi. Its really just your forward line (Messi, Villa, and Fabregas in particular) that is better than ours

El Shaarawy wrote: if we beat you home with a half assed squad

Just saying.

El Shaarawy wrote:And if anyone's arrogant its Juve fans, if we beat you home with a half assed squad, then what will Barca do to you?

Magnificent logic here.. /clap

Celtic beat the 'Greatest team in the the world' imagine what they'd do to us I'm awaiting a 5-0 thumping for sure..I'm getting scared already

Using the same logic

We beat a treble winning Inter side that beat Barca..Imagine how we would have fared had Del Neri's Juve met Pep's Barca

El Shaarawy wrote:

Surag wrote:How did this turn into a Juve-Barca thread

Oh right ,Baresi ..Couldnt expect anything different from you..Good job in derailing the thread.

As for this game i'll be rooting DMeelan in this game..Mainly because if they knock out one of the CL favorites for this year it will automatically boost Juve's chances of winning the CL this year..I'm not delusional , i really believe in this team ,i think we can achieve some great things this year.So i am not taking trivial rivalries into aspect here, i want whats best for Juve at the end of the day.

So i'd hope for either a Milan progression(chances are less i know) OR Barca utterly annihilate them in both legs so i can see some of these arrogant DMeelan fanboys go completely into hiding.

Hiding from what? from being beaten by the best team in the world? We'll exit CL with our heads held high knowing we give it our all with this squad. And if anyone's arrogant its Juve fans, if we beat you home with a half assed squad, then what will Barca do to you?

I think what Surag means is all the trolling a few milan/inter fans gave juve a few years back when we finished 7th back to back they seemed to have an answer for everything, always liked to poke fun but asoon as we won the title everyone seemed to stfu and they disapeared till the dust had settled. kinda sad really

Just addessing the fact that we got no reason to hide if we are beaten, they did it last year after all and Juve fans you never know with Celtic they might park the Titanic and pull a Chelsea

El Shaarawy wrote:Just addessing the fact that we got no reason to hide if we are beaten, they did it last year after all and Juve fans you never know with Celtic they might park the Titanic and pull a Chelsea

but Celtic beat the so called 'greatest team in history' and we lost to one of the worst Milan sides in history.Assuming that you think that Barca would smash us imagine what Celtic can do to us then

It should be a mauling according to your 'wonderful' logic then no ?

El Shaarawy wrote:Just addessing the fact that we got no reason to hide if we are beaten, they did it last year after all and Juve fans you never know with Celtic they might park the Titanic and pull a Chelsea

Ofcourse you dont if Barca beat you ffs. I'd be bricking it if Juve faced them.

Btw celtic dont need to park the titanic vs us, they have enough great players who can actually play. I dont think any juve fans expect or have said Celtic will be an easy game?

Our CBs

Damn you Galliani, could'nt you get anyone in January

6 days left.

I will not relish this.