Countries like Pakistan etc are religious republic . Can they be considered as true democratic countries when they ignore their minority populations and portray their entire population as Islamic republic?

Pakistan is a theocracy? I thought it's a federal state?

By the way, as long as the government treats their citizens rights and gives all the benefits they rightfully deserve then it's a democratic state.

But if they don't and they oppress the minority then it's just a measly democratic country by name (i.e North Korea, Sri Lanka, etc) and not in practice.

Adit wrote:Countries like Pakistan etc are religious republic . Can they be considered as true democratic countries when they ignore their minority populations and portray their entire population as Islamic republic?

(Besides the fact that the elections in those countries are mostly rigged anyway.)

lol we aren't a democracy, our elections were rigged, they recently had to make alot of changes in the election process because much of it had fake things and there is no way of finding out

Zardari asked US to make a deal to wipe off all his corruption cases (100s of million) with Musharraf and he accepted and he openly says it. Right now we have are on the verge of losing our 2nd PM this year because he won't sign a paper opening up a Swiss corruption case of Millions against Zardari, so the Judiciary is sacking the PM and a new one is coming in again.

and btw we were never a Islamic Republic until a Military dictator took charge by executing Bhutto's Father. There was no mention of the word Islam in our Constitution before the 70s.

Pakistan is probably the closest thing to hell on earth after afghanistan

I dont even think Pakistanis consider their country a democracy.

BeautifulGame wrote:I dont even think Pakistanis consider their country a democracy.

Even though our Current President is scum of the worst kind, the majority of the nation wants him to finish his term and not be kicked out before that, so he doesn't have an excuse later and use that as an advantage, it will probably be the first time anyone has finished their term in Pakistan...

Btw as much as India likes to say they are a Democracy they too have their own Family parties like Gandhis/Nehru's, The INC is an family party..

Legend wrote:

BeautifulGame wrote:I dont even think Pakistanis consider their country a democracy.

Even though our Current President is scum of the worst kind, the majority of the nation wants him to finish his term and not be kicked out before that, so he doesn't have an excuse later and use that as an advantage, it will probably be the first time anyone has finished their term in Pakistan...

Not probably.Certainly the first any democratically elected party in Pakistan finishes its term.Just shows how awfully unstable and immature their democracy.And their recent clashes with the supreme courts is another prime example of that as well.

Btw as much as India likes to say they are a Democracy they too have their own Family parties like Gandhis/Nehru's, The INC is an family party..

The biggest strength in our democracy is mainly through regional democracy though.

Even if INC is a family party they are still democratically elected when it comes to elections.Yes our democracy isnt best or perfect one but it definitely is reasonably working for us and thats the most important thing imo.

Democracies are by definition ruled by the majority. A true majority will always neglect the minorities to some extent.

Are there any real democracies?

Eivindo wrote:Are there any real democracies?

Well that's actually a funny point, because a 'real' democracy would be an absolute disaster. The democracy we know and practice in the West is democracy that's not applied completely.

But back to the point, there aren't any democracies in the Middle East, but that's not because they're religious republics. A democratic religious republic is not impossible.

RedOranje wrote:Democracies are by definition ruled by the majority. A true majority will always neglect the minorities to some extent.

The case made for populism, CheOrange

ACMRox wrote:
Well that's actually a funny point, because a 'real' democracy would be an absolute disaster. The democracy we know and practice in the West is democracy that's not applied completely.

No it isn't. Representation is well established as a cornerstone of a democracy. Just because a word-for-word translation of the term implies a kind of mob rule, it still doesn't mean that. Read up on your Aristotele.

A democratic religious republic is not impossible.

It technically isn't, but it would only work as long as all citizens voluntarily followed the same faith. If not, the "religiousness" of the democracy would be unrecognizable.


And @ RO - while that is true, there is still a huge difference between minor marginalization of some minorities and a forced conversion.
The problem of minority rights is well known and has been debated for centuries, a pretty good case was made by Alexis de Tocqueville.

VivaStPauli wrote:
No it isn't. Representation is well established as a cornerstone of a democracy. Just because a word-for-word translation of the term implies a kind of mob rule, it still doesn't mean that. Read up on your Aristotele.

What you're thinking about is a representative democracy. A pure democracy was only really applied in Ancient Greece and it was more 'rule of the people' than 'representation of the people'.

It technically isn't, but it would only work as long as all citizens voluntarily followed the same faith. If not, the "religiousness" of the democracy would be unrecognizable.

Everyone following the same religion isn't a requirement of a religious republic

Yes Viva, which is why I intentionally left my post as vague as possible... I was only attempting to make a point in the broadest sense and wanted to avoid creating an argument over semantics.

So I was... Technically correct.

Real democracy a disaster? Switzerland?

@ACMRox if the religion in question is an Abrahamic religion then yes. It's the first commandment ffs.

Phritz wrote:Real democracy a disaster? Switzerland?

Switzerland is probably the closest to a true democracy that we'll see in our lifetimes but it still has noticeable differences. It's definitely not a pure democracy.

@ACMRox if the religion in question is an Abrahamic religion then yes. It's the first commandment ffs.

lol nope. Speaking for Islam and Christianity (Judaism is slightly different) states where there are citizens who don't practice the religion in question do exist and can exist (theoretically and in practicality).

Grassroots democracy isn't the only "pure democracy", a representative democracy is perfectly fine.

You can see it at work perfectly fine in all of Scandinavia, the Netherlands etc. etc. etc.

Not really, especially when you have stuff like this happening.

British man sentenced to death in Pakistani blasphemy case. Not the way I like to see democracy.

Not one day when there isnt a bomb blast in Pakistan

I don't think you can look at Pakistan as a democracy per se. Yes, technically it is a democracy. But democracy, like any system, needs time to mature and grow. People understand the importance of their vote and politicians learn that they have to actually do something for the betterment of society to gain trust of the people, and this happens over time.

If you look at Pakistan though, over 32 of the 66 years it has existed for have been under military dictatorship. 2013 was the first time in the history of the country that a democratically elected government finished it's tenure. Not really a democracy if you ask me. At least not right now.

On the main issue in discussion, I am all for a secular government and I agree that religious republics can not be truly democratic. Reason being, there will always be people that do not belong to the majority religion, living in the country and those people will be discriminated against by the law itself. And since one of the most fundamental principles of any democracy is equal treatment of all people, it's not really a 'true' democracy.

Switzerland is perfect in human standards.

By, from and for the people.