Who do you think is better and why?

Thanks for getting the ball rolling, MT. Perfect topic to kick off this section with.

My personal preference is for Ronaldo. I believe he's a more complete player physically and he's a threat in more situations than Messi with his superior athletic ability. Messi has the better footballing brain though.

all comps last season:

Messi
short pass 89%
long pass 78%
dribbles 60%
shots 50%
through balls 34%
crosses 17%
defensive actions 54%
offensive actions 77%
defence-offence average 66%
total actions 79% - higher than his attributes would suggest, shows intelligence, hence longetivity

Ronaldo
short pass 82%
long pass 72%
dribbles 51%
shots 40%
through balls 43%
crosses 22%
defensive actions 58%
offensive actions 67%
defence-offence average 63%
total actions 67%

It's a no brainer on this one.

This existence of this thread is an insult to Messi really.

Care to elaborate on that?

The stats you posted tell only a part of the story here. 79% to 67% is a sizable margin, but this debate is still quite legit.

So back up your assertion that this is an insult to Messi.

McLewis wrote:Care to elaborate on that?

The stats you posted tell only a part of the story here. 79% to 67% is a sizable margin, but this debate is still quite legit.

So back up your assertion that this is an insult to Messi.

Messi is better at passing, dribbling, shooting, and all-round attacking.

Ronaldo is better at through balls, crossing and all-round defending.

At this point, Messi is only much better than Ronaldo.

Add in Messi's intelligence and he's much, much, much, much, much better than Ronaldo.

Just face it. Comparing Ronaldo with Messi is like comparing Chicharito with Pirlo.

Ronaldo better at through balls?

mtfootball wrote:Ronaldo better at through balls?

Didn't see the stats I posted?

Mindgames, it's not that simple. You have to compare them to the concrete quantity made, also to the difficulty.

11-12 La Liga+UCL Troughballs

Messi 69
Cronaldo 22

Everyone who watches their play, knows that Messi is superior throughball passer.

jiopsi wrote:Mindgames, it's not that simple. You have to compare them to the concrete quantity made.

La Liga+UCL Troughballs

Messi 69
Cronaldo 22

Everyone who watches their play, knows that Messi is superior throughball passer.

I'm aware of that and the amount played comes into consideration in my offensive actions stat and my total actions stat.

jiopsi wrote:

Following are things that can be put in question and may not be accurate at all and thus could make this a very flawed table:

1- "Against Big Clubs" this is such a subjective and anonymous category ... Does it include Bayer Leverkusen? ( who did go top 3 in Bundesliga, but the following season when they did face barca, they weren't even 1/3 of their strength, but the name leverkusen was still a "big club?) or AC Milan? is that a big team? or Arsenal , what my point is.. that "big teams" change in strength all the time!! like Juve, Milan, Liverpool and so on

2- This table makes another big error, it suggests that "All other things being true" these are the stats. this is not the case, Both of these players play a very different position! and roles in teams they have been in.

To illustrate this, take this for an instance, who is a better passer and has a better vision? Messi or Xavi? without a doubt it is Xavi according to everyone! however Messi assists more than xavi for 2-3 years in a row now, now does that mean Messi is a better passer and assistor? NO, it just means Xavi plays in CM which is further from the strikers and playing a false 9 ' as messi does' makes it easier to link up with fellow strikers or wingers... Assist stats does not help judge passing abilities.. in fact Ozil had more assists than messi in la liga? so can we conclude therefore he is better player?

Same logic applies to Ronaldo and Messi, and although Messi is clearly a better dribbler and a through ball player, the chart does no justice because it is not really reflective as these two phenomenal players play in different positions under different managers and different players around them

3- again coming back to assists tally, the system of a team plays a big role, Messi plays in a barcelona team that plays more centrally rather than the wings, and Ronaldo plays wide in a team which attack from the flanks mostly. Clearly different systems, like short vs long pass and etc, Real madrid's counterattacking system makes sure that players like ronaldo don't touch the ball alot, as in they are very direct and very rarely do you see a back pass or patient buildup going through a player like Ronaldo.

messi on the other hand, plays in a possession retention system, where passing is done for time pass kind of, which means, team is not direct and key players like Messi and xavi and inesta and busquets pass the ball alot and get to touch the ball much more comparably than players like ozil and ronaldo.
- Therefore that shows the difference of passes and assists between Ronaldo and Messi... which the chart DOES NOT take into consideration

4- Competition finals? Really? Again not a good way to compare two players, and very error prone.

Messi has been in more competition finals, thanks to Guardiola era and the amazing team he is in... even small cups like fifa clup world cup or super cup count among these... which Real Madrid and Manchester United did not qualify always to, and therefore, you can't score in competition finals you didn't participate in

5- Olympics stats are pretty useless, the competition , teams usually field only reserves and is barely competitive

6- Ronaldo has been more successful in Euro than messi in copa, as can be seen in this chart, which is the only team Messi is away from the comfort and security of his barcelona team, and thus can be seen as underperforming, which is one of the biggest evidence of Barca team role in Messi's success, eventhough Argentina is a better team than Portugal, Ronaldo still has delivered recently.

Real Kandahar wrote:

jiopsi wrote:

Following are things that can be put in question and may not be accurate at all and thus could make this a very flawed table:

1- "Against Big Clubs" this is such a subjective and anonymous category ... Does it include Bayer Leverkusen?

You can find the notes in here http://king-football.com/bb/?p=496

Have fun.

Also, THank you McLewis.

This section was very much needed, and your creative idea will ensure a good debate finally, where maturity, non trolling exists..

I hope Maximum strict action is taken against trolling, random posts or posts which have nothing to do with the thread, so that this section is clean from such immature actions and we All can have a very knowledgable discussion

Right here we go. Seeing as I have seen Ronaldo develop from the start at United I feel my view would be far more comprehensive.

Ronaldo is a great player in his own right, don't get me wrong, but there are several reasons that he is compared to Messi, and footballing abilities is really at the bottom. Ronaldo has the marketability, the physique and the statistics (GOALS!). Let me take you back to Manchester United. Before El Classico, before the Mou vs Pep, there was MAnchester United vs Barcelona, champions league semi final, 2008. Now even then I wasn't on the ROnaldo hype train. I already knew Messi was a better footballer, but I did not realise by how much till those games. Ronaldo was called the best player in the world, and over 2 legs of football, a Lionel Messi that has just returned from an injuy, managed to outshine him. Ronaldo, once again proved that he was ineffective in big games, a plight that will continue to follow him in his career. Our defence proudeced our best performance I have ever seen as a United fan, while Ronaldo ran and ran and was ineffective.

This whole physical nonsense is something I have never understood. Messi has a lower turnover rate and dribbles more, Ronaldo goes to ground more, so where is this physical nonsense coming from? He isn't't the quickest footballer, hell he has been beaten by Ballesteros, pique, ALves, Clichy even Puyol. Cole used to have him in his back pocket everytime we played against Chelsea, and even Santon looked amazing when we played inter because he had the pace to keep up.

Messi is a better passer, far more intelligent footballer, arguably the best dribbler in the history of football and is a far better finisher. Now look at every great footballer in history, only now we want to find a person that competes with Messi, so we choose the person that scoresd the most goals and has high marketability. Even Ronaldo's best attribute, goal scoring, Messi is superior. The whole more complete BS is a way for people to try and give Ronaldo some sort of edge over him. He can score headers, he has a better weaker foot etc. Maradona had a worse right foot than Messi, maradona will always be twice the footballer that Ronaldo is.

now bar Ronaldo's goals i fail to see anything outsanding about him. Give me something. He goes down easily, so the physical beast thing is out of the window, his big game mentality is pretty abysmal and he always fails at THE biggest moment.

Messi is no cinderalla either, he fails to release the ball most of the time and ball hugs, as Villa's suffering is eveidence but he is just a far more effective footballer in every way.

most imortantly, with Ronaldo, counter attacking has to be your main weapon as he is ineffective in tight spaces as I said before. There stopped being a rivalry in 2009 as far as I'm concerned. Messi has overshadowed Ronaldo for the best part of half a decade. If you take away the emotion, aqnd watch both their games and the effect they have on their teams, it's pretty obvious to see to be honest.

There is a reason Messi is being called the greatest by some and being put on the same pedastel as Maradona and pele. Ronaldo, quite simply is not. You go and think about that.

Great post jibers, though Villa has also himself to blame this seasons sufferings:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

MindGames7 wrote:all comps last season:

Messi
short pass 89%
long pass 78%
dribbles 60%
shots 50%
through balls 34%
crosses 17%
defensive actions 54%
offensive actions 77%
defence-offence average 66%
total actions 79% - higher than his attributes would suggest, shows intelligence, hence longetivity

Ronaldo
short pass 82%
long pass 72%
dribbles 51%
shots 40%
through balls 43%
crosses 22%
defensive actions 58%
offensive actions 67%
defence-offence average 63%
total actions 67%

It's a no brainer on this one.

And how is everyone supposed to believe all those stats? There's nothing to prove that any of it is authentic.

See this is why I just don't trust any "stat" anyone throws in the air. I can fabricate one myself. I'm of the opinion that Messi is better than Ronaldo but let's not act as if Messi is a million miles ahead of Ronaldo, which clearly isn't the case. If you're going to present an argument with stats, I think it'll make your case more legitimate to show how you got those stats and how reliable they are.

To be brutally honest, I actually think the gap between them is so big, it makes Messi look bad having him compared to him. I dont even like being in this thread trying to make my arguement, it makes me uncomfortable that the comparison exists and I am part of continuing it.

I am not a stats guy and I never will be, Messi's stats are not what makes him to me, that much better.

He is just better, its that simple. He exterts far more control over the game, he causes more damage to opponants, he is far harder to stop be it 1 v 1 or team defending and he is better at all the aspects which matter.

Cristiano is faster, stronger, whatever, but those are just tools which enhance you. What its really about is what decisions you make, how you move, how smart you are on the pitch.

I think Cristiano's game is crude and basic. His tricks used to serve a purpose, they no longer do and as a concequence he doesnt beat multiple players and he doesnt create that level of danger.

His stronger assest is his goalscoring, but even when you look closer at that, you see a somewhat wasteful player who cant help but shoot from every available position, ignoring other options.

Cristiano is not my kind of player, I make no secret about that, but really...he is nowhere near Messi.

Barrettinator wrote:And how is everyone supposed to believe all those stats? There's nothing to prove that any of it is authentic.

1. Go to whoscored.com
2. Click on a player
3. Hover your mouse over the "___s per game" stats
4. Use that to find out the accuracy
5. The more competitions you use, the more accurate the are

I'm willing to admit that my stats might be inaccurate due to a typing error, and I welcome you to check them for me, but frankly the way that I check if I've typed it in correctly or not is by using my memory of watching the players, and something goes against what I've seen on the field, then I check it again. To be honest, whenever I've made a typing error it usually stands out like a sore thumb amongst all the other stats.

The Franchise wrote:To be brutally honest, I actually think the gap between them is so big, it makes Messi look bad having him compared to him. I dont even like being in this thread trying to make my arguement, it makes me uncomfortable that the comparison exists and I am part of continuing it.

I am not a stats guy and I never will be, Messi's stats are not what makes him to me, that much better.

He is just better, its that simple. He exterts far more control over the game, he causes more damage to opponants, he is far harder to stop be it 1 v 1 or team defending and he is better at all the aspects which matter.

Cristiano is faster, stronger, whatever, but those are just tools which enhance you. What its really about is what decisions you make, how you move, how smart you are on the pitch.

I think Cristiano's game is crude and basic. His tricks used to serve a purpose, they no longer do and as a concequence he doesnt beat multiple players and he doesnt create that level of danger.

His stronger assest is his goalscoring, but even when you look closer at that, you see a somewhat wasteful player who cant help but shoot from every available position, ignoring other options.

Cristiano is not my kind of player, I make no secret about that, but really...he is nowhere near Messi.

I get your point, however, I feel that a lot of the things Messi does, Cristiano can also do albeit in a poor man's version. How many players in the world can dribble past multiple players like Ronaldo? Well there's only one player that can and also does it better; Messi. You can pick one or two other few things relating to talent which Messi does better but imo not at a "billion gillion gazillion times better" kind of rate.

There are only a few things I saw bought me over. Messi has one of the highest football IQs of any player I've ever seen play. His high football IQ also means he almost always makes the right decision on the pitch. Ronaldo is a "selfish" player trying his best to be more of a team player from what I've seen the past few years. This also means he tries to force himself to share the ball with his teammates, which isn't natural so he unconsciously becomes "himself" at points in a match. A lot.

One other thing I noticed is that Ronaldo easily gets frustrated on the pitch when things are not going his way. This is really the opposite in Messi's case, which is why I'm sure if we could go back and look at how many last minute equalizers/match winners they both had last season, Messi probably had more.

Other than those, there's really nothing you can say. Every other aspect involving talent gives them both advantages individually in different aspects that cancel each other out.

/rant

Barrettinator wrote:

The Franchise wrote:To be brutally honest, I actually think the gap between them is so big, it makes Messi look bad having him compared to him. I dont even like being in this thread trying to make my arguement, it makes me uncomfortable that the comparison exists and I am part of continuing it.

I am not a stats guy and I never will be, Messi's stats are not what makes him to me, that much better.

He is just better, its that simple. He exterts far more control over the game, he causes more damage to opponants, he is far harder to stop be it 1 v 1 or team defending and he is better at all the aspects which matter.

Cristiano is faster, stronger, whatever, but those are just tools which enhance you. What its really about is what decisions you make, how you move, how smart you are on the pitch.

I think Cristiano's game is crude and basic. His tricks used to serve a purpose, they no longer do and as a concequence he doesnt beat multiple players and he doesnt create that level of danger.

His stronger assest is his goalscoring, but even when you look closer at that, you see a somewhat wasteful player who cant help but shoot from every available position, ignoring other options.

Cristiano is not my kind of player, I make no secret about that, but really...he is nowhere near Messi.

I get your point, however, I feel that a lot of the things Messi does, Cristiano can also do albeit in a poor man's version. How many players in the world can dribble past multiple players like Ronaldo? Well there's only one player that can and also does it better; Messi. You can pick one or two other few things relating to talent which Messi does better but imo not at a "billion gillion gazillion times better" kind of rate.

There are only a few things I saw bought me over. Messi has one of the highest football IQs of any player I've ever seen play. His high football IQ also means he almost always makes the right decision on the pitch. Ronaldo is a "selfish" player trying his best to be more of a team player from what I've seen the past few years. This also means he tries to force himself to share the ball with his teammates, which isn't natural so he unconsciously becomes "himself" at points in a match. A lot.

One other thing I noticed is that Ronaldo easily gets frustrated on the pitch when things are not going his way. This is really the opposite in Messi's case, which is why I'm sure if we could go back and look at how many last minute equalizers/match winners they both had last season, Messi probably had more.

Other than those, there's really nothing you can say. Every other aspect involving talent gives them both advantages individually in different aspects that cancel each other out.

/rant

What nonsnese. Ronaldo rarely beats his man by dribbling. Di Maria, Iniesta, Robben (), hell even ricardo fuller are all comfotably better dribblers. Do you watch him play at all? This isn't FIFA 12. His dribbling is rubbish. If by dribbling you mean kick and rush, then he is great at it when he has space, most of the time, he doesn't. Ronaldo is no better than Higuain at dribbling.

Cancel each other out? Messi is just a lot better dude. As I sadi Ronaldo's only claim to fame is his goal scoring, and Messi is even better at that than him. I'm sure you never saw Laudrup, Zidane or Maradona play regulalry. Top put Ronaldo on Messi's level is to put Ronaldo in the level of those guys, which is quite franlky, embarassing.

Barrettinator wrote:

The Franchise wrote:To be brutally honest, I actually think the gap between them is so big, it makes Messi look bad having him compared to him. I dont even like being in this thread trying to make my arguement, it makes me uncomfortable that the comparison exists and I am part of continuing it.

I am not a stats guy and I never will be, Messi's stats are not what makes him to me, that much better.

He is just better, its that simple. He exterts far more control over the game, he causes more damage to opponants, he is far harder to stop be it 1 v 1 or team defending and he is better at all the aspects which matter.

Cristiano is faster, stronger, whatever, but those are just tools which enhance you. What its really about is what decisions you make, how you move, how smart you are on the pitch.

I think Cristiano's game is crude and basic. His tricks used to serve a purpose, they no longer do and as a concequence he doesnt beat multiple players and he doesnt create that level of danger.

His stronger assest is his goalscoring, but even when you look closer at that, you see a somewhat wasteful player who cant help but shoot from every available position, ignoring other options.

Cristiano is not my kind of player, I make no secret about that, but really...he is nowhere near Messi.

I get your point, however, I feel that a lot of the things Messi does, Cristiano can also do albeit in a poor man's version. How many players in the world can dribble past multiple players like Ronaldo? Well there's only one player that can and also does it better; Messi. You can pick one or two other few things relating to talent which Messi does better but imo not at a "billion gillion gazillion times better" kind of rate.

There are only a few things I saw bought me over. Messi has one of the highest football IQs of any player I've ever seen play. His high football IQ also means he almost always makes the right decision on the pitch. Ronaldo is a "selfish" player trying his best to be more of a team player from what I've seen the past few years. This also means he tries to force himself to share the ball with his teammates, which isn't natural so he unconsciously becomes "himself" at points in a match. A lot.

One other thing I noticed is that Ronaldo easily gets frustrated on the pitch when things are not going his way. This is really the opposite in Messi's case, which is why I'm sure if we could go back and look at how many last minute equalizers/match winners they both had last season, Messi probably had more.

Other than those, there's really nothing you can say. Every other aspect involving talent gives them both advantages individually in different aspects that cancel each other out.

/rant

Well we going to have to disagree here. I dont see Cristino beating multiple players, on Madrid alone, Di Maria is a more dangerous and prolific dribbler if we talking about just dribbling and beating his man. Cristiano isnt even a top 10 dribbler in my eyes, he just fails too many times per every sucess.

The rest I dont really disagree with very much.

The fact that Messi is claimed to be in the top 5 greatest ever footballers and Ronaldo not even to make it into the top 20, just says it all. When times are tough, Ronaldo gets frustated and his game lowers dramatically though Messi doesn't get frustated and seems to always find a way through. People claim that teams that park the bus is Messi's weakness though as we can see, in both legs, Messi was the best player on the field and a 1-2 with Fabregas/Xavi/Iniesta etc. can create a goal out of nowhere, it was just his finishing that lacked him down in those legs as well as tight scheduling...

Agree with everything Dani and Jibers said.

The only reason people compare this 2 are goals. but you have to look at every aspect of their game.

Messi is better at every single basic thing of the game. and by basic i mean Ball control, Dribbling, Vision and Passing, Finishing.

There is debates for Messi being the best at history but for Ronaldo there is debate between some fans if he is Madrid's best player or not. i think it shows the reality.

and you all know i was a Ronaldo fan ( not a Ronaldo fan, a Madrid's best player fan ) but after flopping right and left in big games and by looking really carefully at his performances i figured he is not what i thought and wanted him to be.

At the end there is only goals for comparing them and for last 2-3 seasons Messi has scored more goals than Ronaldo. so there is no debate imo. messi is way better.