-10 millions a year at 22
-He's not the main player of his team ( or one of them ) as he was at Dortmund.

That being said, he's still great for a 22 y old. Just seems like he's not hungry enough.

I just don't think Bayerns system suits him all that much. He's best in an attacking role, the more direct, the better, like he was at Dortmund. He does okay at Bayern, but the role he is best at doesn't exist there.

That being said, even if you explain all that away, he does seem to be in a bit of a slump.

Good thread, and good question.

Well I have him in my fantasy football lineup today so hopefully he proves the doubters wrong.

Most of it is due to Bayern's style of play, he excelled at Dortmund due to the pace of their attacks i don't feel that the slow pace that Bayern plays at allows him to succeed at all.

It's basically Sanchez at Barca syndrome.

I have a personal, purely speculative theory of what's wrong with Mario Götze.
If someone else would come up with it and present it I'd probably protest lol.

But there is a version of reality in which it is the true story, so here you go.

It's basically a conjecture of few pieces of information.


- first here we have Klopp reacting to the news of the transfer and recounting how he spoke with Götze about it


He says the reason Götze chose the transfer, as Götze tells him, is that Götze is the "Wunschspieler" of Pep (the player Pep wished for/asked for/dreamed of) and Götze wants to take up the opportunity to work with Pep in that capacity (aka the German Messi lol).

This notion of Götze as the player Pep specifically wanted to sign was everywhere at the time http://www.abendblatt.de/sport/article115541332/FC-Bayern-verpflichtet-Wunschspieler-von-Guardiola.html


- then we have, a mere month later, Hoeness publicly narrating how Guardiola wanted Bayern to go for Neymar and how they had to 'persuade' him to settle for the German 'version' Götze instead, as we had decided not to take the risk of signing Brazilians who hadn't played in Europe already anymore, after the Breno debacle.
The headline being, Neymar was Pep's "Wunschspieler" but he got Götze instead
http://www.abendzeitung-muenchen.de/inhalt.fc-bayern-fcb-guardiola-wollte-neymar-und-bekam-goetze.fdcef3c0-e0a9-4a67-aacb-0bce4db395c1.html
http://www.abendblatt.de/sport/article116623871/Hoeness-verraet-Guardiola-wollte-erst-Neymar-statt-Goetze.html


- as a cherry on top, here's Pep in July saying he wants Thiago, "Thiago or nothing", recounting how he met with Rummenigge and Sammer and they told him they can sign Götze, to which he says "it's a super super player so it's no problem for me (!!), but the ONLY player I proposed to them is Thiago"




So the story unfolding is this:

20 year old Götze is persuaded to leave his childhood club BVB, where he is happy and with his buddies, by Hoeness and Rummenigge, using the release clause.

It can't have been an easy decision.

Our board tells him he is the "Wunschspieler" of Pep to tempt and woo him, and this is something that informs his decision.

When the deal becomes public at a terrible point in time (before the Madrid semi), he even justifies the move to Klopp with this in mind.

The price he pays for the move is of course the burning hatred of Dortmund fans, which is surely tough on him, but he decided to take it because he wants to play for Pep as Pep's favourite player.

After the deal is through and public, it turns out Hoeness and Rummenigge had actually lied to him about this Wunschspieler thing. In a way, they coaxed him into moving with it, and he fell for it.
Of course Pep doesn't mind him, but he's only second choice to Neymar and the player that has Pep's main affection and appreciation is Thiago.

Accordingly, he has to find out he's by no means the focal point of Pep's team, he's having to work his way into the lineup and possibly him and Pep aren't even such a good fit.
It's still great playing for Bayern, it's a great, successful team who are also his buddies etc., so he's not unhappy per se.

But he sacrificed a part of his soul, the innocent love he had at Dortmund, based on a lie.

I think a part of him is dead because of that. A part of him just doesn't care.
Or to put it less extreme, his relationship with Bayern started with a profound dissapointment and let down, similar to when we promised 17 year old Kroos the no. 10 jersey we then gave to Robben lol, and like Kroos he'll never forget it, and never truly settle.

A nice post Hans, but I think that's a bit too deep an explanation. "A part of him is dead", lol.

Art Morte wrote:A nice post Hans, but I think that's a bit too deep an explanation. "A part of him is dead", lol.

I can see it though, being built up the the club wanting to sign you as the man they want to build their future around, only to discover that the coach wanted another and you're just the back up. That would be devastating for many people.

So Gotze is a rebound hookup that fell for his club hard only to find out they never felt that way about him in the first place?

Thanks for that post Hans, that was informative as hell.

He's looking pretty good right now.


But to be honest i think my grandma would look at least like Oscar against the crap Porto has brought tonight.

Very hard working, and effective, display tonight though.
And I think Hans is on to something.

He was out worst attacking player tonight. Him & Lahm had very average game when everyone excelled. Obviously our Germany friends are incredibly biased so we will possibly see some excuse.

I am huge fan of Goetze though back when he actually started @ Dortmund when Kagawa was there, I thought he he had the talent to become one of the German Players ever

A winger without explosive speed.
Lol.

So even with all these injuries, Gotze still only gets 5 minutes of action when Munich are chasing the game and needs more goals.

What is going on? Shouldn't have left Dortmund.

He's so much like Reyes at tail end of his Arsenal career, now scared of doing pretty much anything, wouldn't take on player, wouldn't get stuck in. Might need to find that comfort zone again, back to Dortmund (Seville) probably.

Statistically he's at the same level he was in his last season at Dortmund, 15 or 16 goals in all competitions for the past three seasons.

Does he play more on the wing or in the middle for Bayern? I have no idea. But when I've seen him on the wing, he hasn't impressed me that much (and I know he emerged as a number 10 at Dortmund (right?)).

The two games I've watched him, I've got the feeling he doesn't really care. Maybe has ambition problems.

Ozil also seems to not really care. Even Messi sometimes. The '' he doens't care '' argument isn't a valid one imo.

Here is a post rom Hans ( last page )

have a personal, purely speculative theory of what's wrong with Mario Götze.
If someone else would come up with it and present it I'd probably protest lol.

But there is a version of reality in which it is the true story, so here you go.

It's basically a conjecture of few pieces of information.


- first here we have Klopp reacting to the news of the transfer and recounting how he spoke with Götze about it


He says the reason Götze chose the transfer, as Götze tells him, is that Götze is the "Wunschspieler" of Pep (the player Pep wished for/asked for/dreamed of) and Götze wants to take up the opportunity to work with Pep in that capacity (aka the German Messi lol).

This notion of Götze as the player Pep specifically wanted to sign was everywhere at the time http://www.abendblatt.de/sport/article115541332/FC-Bayern-verpflichtet-Wunschspieler-von-Guardiola.html


- then we have, a mere month later, Hoeness publicly narrating how Guardiola wanted Bayern to go for Neymar and how they had to 'persuade' him to settle for the German 'version' Götze instead, as we had decided not to take the risk of signing Brazilians who hadn't played in Europe already anymore, after the Breno debacle.
The headline being, Neymar was Pep's "Wunschspieler" but he got Götze instead
http://www.abendzeitung-muenchen.de/inhalt.fc-bayern-fcb-guardiola-wollte-neymar-und-bekam-goetze.fdcef3c0-e0a9-4a67-aacb-0bce4db395c1.html
http://www.abendblatt.de/sport/article116623871/Hoeness-verraet-Guardiola-wollte-erst-Neymar-statt-Goetze.html


- as a cherry on top, here's Pep in July saying he wants Thiago, "Thiago or nothing", recounting how he met with Rummenigge and Sammer and they told him they can sign Götze, to which he says "it's a super super player so it's no problem for me (!!), but the ONLY player I proposed to them is Thiago"




So the story unfolding is this:

20 year old Götze is persuaded to leave his childhood club BVB, where he is happy and with his buddies, by Hoeness and Rummenigge, using the release clause.

It can't have been an easy decision.

Our board tells him he is the "Wunschspieler" of Pep to tempt and woo him, and this is something that informs his decision.

When the deal becomes public at a terrible point in time (before the Madrid semi), he even justifies the move to Klopp with this in mind.

The price he pays for the move is of course the burning hatred of Dortmund fans, which is surely tough on him, but he decided to take it because he wants to play for Pep as Pep's favourite player.

After the deal is through and public, it turns out Hoeness and Rummenigge had actually lied to him about this Wunschspieler thing. In a way, they coaxed him into moving with it, and he fell for it.
Of course Pep doesn't mind him, but he's only second choice to Neymar and the player that has Pep's main affection and appreciation is Thiago.

Accordingly, he has to find out he's by no means the focal point of Pep's team, he's having to work his way into the lineup and possibly him and Pep aren't even such a good fit.
It's still great playing for Bayern, it's a great, successful team who are also his buddies etc., so he's not unhappy per se.

But he sacrificed a part of his soul, the innocent love he had at Dortmund, based on a lie.

I think a part of him is dead because of that. A part of him just doesn't care.
Or to put it less extreme, his relationship with Bayern started with a profound dissapointment and let down, similar to when we promised 17 year old Kroos the no. 10 jersey we then gave to Robben lol, and like Kroos he'll never forget it, and never truly settle.

Should have never left Dortmund to join Buyern.

Hope his career is an epic fail and goes downhill.

POS.

Its a simple answer! He was never really good enough. Don't know why that's so hard to figure out. He's just a slightly above average player. People only tried to hype him more than he was capable of tbh.. You guys only confuse a lack of capacity as a lack of ambition or will power, lol, how do you even judge that?
German messi

He's still a very good player , elite/WC level. Dude is 23 : He can still improve.

There must be something else also apart from what Hans said which was great. I remember last season he was great for Bayern. Im not sure but only sometime this season he dipped and wth Ribery back as first choice, basically Robbery owning means hes left out. Than u have Lewand, Muller battling it out, then now Thiago for the attacking positions. Pep's system, all factors add up.

BarcaLearning wrote:There must be something else also apart from what Hans said which was great. I remember last season he was great for Bayern. Im not sure but only sometime this season he dipped and wth Ribery back as first choice, basically Robbery owning means hes left out. Than u have Lewand, Muller battling it out, then now Thiago for the attacking positions. Pep's system, all factors add up.

Maybe, he isn't better than any if those players?

Bankz wrote:Its a simple answer! He was never really good enough. Don't know why that's so hard to figure out. He's just a slightly above average player. People only tried to hype him more than he was capable of tbh.. You guys only confuse a lack of capacity as a lack of ambition or will power, lol, how do you even judge that?
German messi

What on earth even points towards that?

He's not the second coming of Messi but slightly above average ? Come on. He's an elite player.