kiranr wrote:What about the age? Do kids develop as much body weight by then?

That's how growth charts work...They incorporate norms for age, weight & height using the principle of BMI...The standards of normal have been in place for decades and in the Pediatric world, there have been calls to change it since kids are more & more obese these days...However, currently, Jean Marie is normal for his physical attributes...Even small in some regards for his age but then again, so was Leo

I dont get the big debate.

Its well known the suspecion around African youngsters, it happens far less nowadays, but its pretty much a fact that many Africians youngsters are older than they say they are.

Does anyone believe Kanu, Martins and some other are the ages they say?

It seems to me Free purely mentioned that as an issue, which is fair. He didnt say Dongou is flat out not that age, he mentioned it as a question mark..which is it.

Then, you look at his musculature....its easy to put those things together and bring up a question mark. There is nothing wrong with that to me.

FCBarça wrote:Shorter & lighter than Deulofeu, currently...So he's a beast sideways?...Your argument about him being a beast of a player at his age and not reflecting someone of 17 continues to unravel, freecat...Admit you made a mistake, move on...He's not suddenly going to be a different size, let it go

You drew a sweeping generalization about someone from an African country and cast aspersions about his 'true' age when there has been no evidence to back up your accusations...None...There is no precedent that you could produce that demonstrated this sort of problem happens with Cameroonian players and instead incredibly lumped him in with other African countries

All of this intended to undermine the credibility of the player, a player in our club's cantera which is hard to comprehend...You can debate who is a better prospect etc. but cutting the kid down because he might be an old man or beast is something I'd expect from a Madridista

Personally, I think this stems more from you having an issue with Graham Hunter and him heaping hyperbolic praise on the player or perhaps, unfortunately, you have issues with race...Praise I don't think is accurate either but doesn't equate to questioning his age...Your conduct in this matter has been pretty immature

First, don't call me Madridista. You are crossing a line there!

Second, all that picture proved is that YOU ARE WRONG. DONGOU IS NOT 5,6 (1.68) but around 1.75. You are probably wrong about the weight too because a google search doesn't turn anything OFFICIAL. Your DATA IS WRONG. You only need to watch a recent picture or recent game to see that Dongou is built like an ox, and everyone agrees with that except you. YOU ARE ALONE, because your eyes ARE SHUT TO EVIDENCE.
Talk about being immature.

All the rest about africa etc. there's no need to reply, all has been talked and settled.

At least you are seeing that Deulofeu is good, finally you realise your stupid comment that Dongou was more ready than Deulofeu was stupid.
Good for you.

FCBarça wrote:

kiranr wrote:What about the age? Do kids develop as much body weight by then?

That's how growth charts work...They incorporate norms for age, weight & height using the principle of BMI...The standards of normal have been in place for decades and in the Pediatric world, there have been calls to change it since kids are more & more obese these days...However, currently, Jean Marie is normal for his physical attributes...Even small in some regards for his age but then again, so was Leo

Dongou is small according to your proven fake data of 5'6" (1.68, shorter than Xavi ) and 150 pounds (69 kg).
He surely is not if you had his real data.

The Franchise wrote:I dont get the big debate.

Its well known the suspecion around African youngsters, it happens far less nowadays, but its pretty much a fact that many Africians youngsters are older than they say they are.

Does anyone believe Kanu, Martins and some other are the ages they say?

This is my problem with this logic...You're comparing Nigerian players to a Cameroonian player...Nigeria has a reputation for not only age doctoring but more fraud per capita than any other nation on the planet...One African country does not equate to another...Hence my Bulgaria vs Ireland example

The Franchise wrote:It seems to me Free purely mentioned that as an issue, which is fair. He didnt say Dongou is flat out not that age, he mentioned it as a question mark..which is it.

An issue?...Again, how is it an issue if there's no evidence of it?...Why not do the same about Leo?...Where do you stop?

The Franchise wrote:Then, you look at his musculature....its easy to put those things together and bring up a question mark. There is nothing wrong with that to me.

Kun, Leo and even Leo have very developed quads...It is, after all, a common attribute with short footballers...It begs of prejudice, I'm sorry

free_cat wrote:all that picture proved is that YOU ARE WRONG. DONGOU IS NOT 5,6 (1.68) but around 1.75.

I go by evidence, not conjecture...When you can produce a shred of actual evidence (Not your photoshopped photos or conjecture on size based on guessing size from photos) that he is not 5'6" or shorter than Deulofeu, I'd welcome it...Otherwise, repeating it over & over doesn't make it true

The Franchise wrote:You are probably wrong about the weight too because a google search doesn't turn anything OFFICIAL. Your DATA IS WRONG. You only need to watch a recent picture or recent game to see that Dongou is built like an ox, and everyone agrees with that except you. YOU ARE ALONE, because your eyes ARE SHUT TO EVIDENCE.

All that is true here is that you know how to use caps

The Franchise wrote:All the rest about africa etc. there's no need to reply, all has been talked and settled.

I can appreciate it's embarrassing to be called out on prejudice

The Franchise wrote:At least you are seeing that Deulofeu is good, finally you realise your stupid comment that Dongou was more ready than Deulofeu was stupid.

Nope, no insults here...Juvenile

FCBarça wrote:

The Franchise wrote:I dont get the big debate.

Its well known the suspecion around African youngsters, it happens far less nowadays, but its pretty much a fact that many Africians youngsters are older than they say they are.

Does anyone believe Kanu, Martins and some other are the ages they say?

This is my problem with this logic...You're comparing Nigerian players to a Cameroonian player...Nigeria has a reputation for not only age doctoring but more fraud per capita than any other nation on the planet...One African country does not equate to another...Hence my Bulgaria vs Ireland example

The Franchise wrote:It seems to me Free purely mentioned that as an issue, which is fair. He didnt say Dongou is flat out not that age, he mentioned it as a question mark..which is it.

An issue?...Again, how is it an issue if there's no evidence of it?...Why not do the same about Leo?...Where do you stop?

The Franchise wrote:Then, you look at his musculature....its easy to put those things together and bring up a question mark. There is nothing wrong with that to me.

Kun, Leo and even Leo have very developed quads...It is, after all, a common attribute with short footballers...It begs of prejudice, I'm sorry

Who cares which African country they are from? Again, Free isnt here saying he is older..he is saying it is a question mark. And anyway, I am not convinced say, Rigobert Song is 35.

I think Dongou is what age he says, he has a fairly young face and features, however there is a question mark because of previous African youngsters. Lets not pretend we all know this doesnt happen in Cameroon, even their FA know its a possibilty.

http://www.goal.com/en-india/news/143/africa/2012/02/22/2922593/cameroon-fa-to-tackle-age-trafficking-using-a-proven

Bulgaria and Ireland as a comparison is just stupid, I dont need to argue that.

Again, your seeing attack which dont exsist. Nobody is saying because he has musculature he MUST be over his listed age...all that is being said is there is a question mark, which there is.

1. Stop the underlying personal attacks... both of you.

2. Stop acting like you have the definitive argument.

3. Please stop pulling the race card ffs... its not necessary at all.

4. I was also going to post another link like Dani has. Cameroon has a rep... yes.

FCBarça wrote:

free_cat wrote:all that picture proved is that YOU ARE WRONG. DONGOU IS NOT 5,6 (1.68) but around 1.75.

I go by evidence, not conjecture...When you can produce a shred of actual evidence (Not your photoshopped photos or conjecture on size based on guessing size from photos) that he is not 5'6" or shorter than Deulofeu, I'd welcome it...Otherwise, repeating it over & over doesn't make it true

The Franchise wrote:You are probably wrong about the weight too because a google search doesn't turn anything OFFICIAL. Your DATA IS WRONG. You only need to watch a recent picture or recent game to see that Dongou is built like an ox, and everyone agrees with that except you. YOU ARE ALONE, because your eyes ARE SHUT TO EVIDENCE.

All that is true here is that you know how to use caps

The Franchise wrote:All the rest about africa etc. there's no need to reply, all has been talked and settled.

I can appreciate it's embarrassing to be called out on prejudice

The Franchise wrote:At least you are seeing that Deulofeu is good, finally you realise your stupid comment that Dongou was more ready than Deulofeu was stupid.

Nope, no insults here...Juvenile

You haven't provided any source to your claim that he is 5'6" and 150 pounds, which he obviously isn't. You can see he is taller in all the pictures provided.

But if you say so, we'll all believe he is 1.68 cm then. (less than Xavi and Messi ) and that he is very weak and has no musculature.

I'm not insulting you, "stupid commment" is an insult to your comment, not to you.

For the first time in history, I'm using my ignore list. There you go.

/debate.

BarcaKizz wrote:1. Stop the underlying personal attacks... both of you.

2. Stop acting like you have the definitive argument.

3. Please stop pulling the race card ffs... its not necessary at all.

4. I was also going to post another link like Dani has. Cameroon has a rep... yes.

I haven't attacked him "stupid comment" aside (which I stand by it).
I have the definitive argument about Dongou's height, it's there on the pictures for everyone to see: he is not 1.68.

How do you put someone on the ignore list? can't find it.

There's tension between you. This argument is going nowhere. Opinions are being maliciously declined. Let's keep the peace.

As for his height... Well he's growing, that much is obvious. Like you said, he's not tall. How tall he is we don't know.

Click on the profile and on the right above his picture, you will see "Add to foes list".

The Franchise wrote:Who cares which African country they are from?

Which African country they are from is precisely the point, lumping one country with another reflects prejudice...I don't know how that couldn't be more clear

The Franchise wrote:Again, Free isnt here saying he is older..he is saying it is a question mark. And anyway, I am not convinced say, Rigobert Song is 35.

If he's not saying he's older, what is he suggesting?...That he's younger?...It's a question mark by whom, however?...From freecat?...From popular media or the club?...It's baseless to cast aspersions based on zero evidence

The Franchise wrote:I think Dongou is what age he says, he has a fairly young face and features, however there is a question mark because of previous African youngsters. Lets not pretend we all know this doesnt happen in Cameroon, even their FA know its a possibilty.

Still, no examples of where a player has been shown to be a different age from Cameroon, let alone Dongou or anyone else in the cantera...It's baseless

The Franchise wrote:Bulgaria and Ireland as a comparison is just stupid, I dont need to argue that.

And see, for me, comparing Cameroon to any other country in Africa is stupid and pointless to argue, as well.

The Franchise wrote:Again, your seeing attack which dont exsist. Nobody is saying because he has musculature he MUST be over his listed age...all that is being said is there is a question mark, which there is.

When you use it as a basis for cutting a player's potential with zero evidence, then it's an attack, what else could it possibly be?...When people were claiming doping for Leo, what was the basis for that?...Was it to compliment the player or to undermine him?

1. No, its doesnt reflect any prejudice..because there are concern with numerous African countries, Cameroon included..not just 1.

2. Its a question mark based on common sense.

3. You keep saying baseless, completely ignoring the link of the Cameroon FA who seem very much aware of the problem. Again, your fighting against opponants who do not exist.

4. Comparing Cameroon to other African countries makes perfect sense in this issue, because they have similar issues. Bulgaria and Ireland do not.

5. Nobody is "cutting a players potentional"..they are simply saying, its something they personally worry about. It doesnt matter if their is evidence or not, its a feeling.

Prejudice isn't a feeling either?...It's baseless if there are no credible evidence to suggest a question exists...There is none...There are no examples of Cameroonian professional footballers doctoring their age, whether the FA introduces new technology to insure it or not...Moreover, no question marks over these players in the club's cantera exists or have been made an issue

Lumping continental nations together does not make sense anymore than Bulgaria & Ireland, lumping Middle Eastern countries together or all white people together...Next time you meet someone from Cameroon ask them if they think they're similar to Nigerians - expect accusations of lumping blacks/Africans together

Common sense would apply to questioning all of the ages of these players, choosing 'the black ones' suggests something common as well but sense would not enter into it, IMHO

FFS please drop it!

Fuuuu.....

Whatever man, I said what I had to say and to me your being a bit of a baby.

FCBarca I think i have seen you from the official BarcaForum. I find your posts enjoyabl to read as well as the criticism from Free. I find these comments hilarous and pointless. Getting back to topic.... Dongou has been performing well consistently for Barca B and should now be officially in Barca B. Eusebio is good though I wish Enrique was back... and he can as he is now gone from Roma...

Once he made the jump to top tier football I doubt he would come back to Barca B. He is taking a sabbatical anyway, won't be back to training this season.

paxtonpale wrote:FCBarca I think i have seen you from the official BarcaForum. I find your posts enjoyabl to read as well as the criticism from Free. I find these comments hilarous and pointless. Getting back to topic.... Dongou has been performing well consistently for Barca B and should now be officially in Barca B. Eusebio is good though I wish Enrique was back... and he can as he is now gone from Roma...

Salut...

Yeah, I'm sure Dongou will get the full promotion to B for next season, clearly he's ready....I'm just hoping he gets to tour in preseason with Deulofeu and others...17/18 is usually the age we see them in the Pep era

Fantastic tournament so far for Infantil A in Stockholm for the annual Lennert Johannson Academy Trophy in Stockholm...Lee Seung Woo and Alejandro Martinez look like potentially marvelous talents...Golazo from Jordi Mola too

Final tomorrow at 10AM in Europe, TV4 in Sweden showing it live and streams will be available...They play Red Star Belgrade who they already beat earlier in the week, 4-0...Expect goals

According to Mundo Deportivo:

Montoya, Muniesa, Bartra, Tello and JDS will be promoted (maybe some of them sold with buy-back clause).

Femenia will continue at B although his contract says he should be promoted.

Miño and Armando (Kizz ) won't be renewed. Riverola is leaving to Bologna.

Sergi Roberto, Rodri and Rosell might leave.

Miguel Bañuz, Patri, Quintillà, Dongou, Miguel Angel, Grimaldo and Sergio Ayala will be promoted from Juvenil A.

The B targets to sign a RB, two centerbacks, a midfielder and a forward.

http://www.mundodeportivo.com/20120521/un-lateral-derecho-dos-centrales-un-mediocentro-y-un-delantero-fichajes-del-b_54295167178.html

free_cat wrote:According to Mundo Deportivo:

Montoya, Muniesa, Bartra, Tello and JDS will be promoted (maybe some of them sold with buy-back clause).

Muniesa & JDS have to be loaned out...Neither would see a minute with the first team in the regular rotation, they'd merely be training fodder

free_cat wrote:Femenia will continue at B although his contract says he should be promoted.

Nothing short of a miracle will see him promoted, perhaps ever

free_cat wrote:Miño and Armando (Kizz ) won't be renewed. Riverola is leaving to Bologna

Armando will be missed for his leadership & steel, something that will be sorely lacking next season, IMHO

free_cat wrote:Sergi Roberto, Rodri and Rosell might leave.

Rodri is good for the B team but with Dongou surely to be promoted, he's inferior to Geri, Rafinha & Jean Marie...Still could benefit from a rotational player up front

Sergio Roberto remains a tough one for me to figure out...Would be a shame to lose the player but he's not had a great season

With no promotion, wonder if that means Oier might be part of a sale to Athletic in the near future

free_cat wrote:Miguel Bañuz, Patri, Quintillà, Dongou, Miguel Angel, Grimaldo and Sergio Ayala will be promoted from Juvenil A.

Grimaldo, finally...Means we'll see him with an odd first team appearance here & there soon enough, as well...I hope he continues to improve, fantastic prospect.....Probably see Samper make the move at some point soon, as well

free_cat wrote:The B targets to sign a RB, two centerbacks, a midfielder and a forward.

Bet they wish they could dump Kiko...Defense is definitely a problem

Deulofeu & Grimaldo with the U19 team today, facing Armenia at 1500 CET

Halftime for the Spain's U19 side against Armenia, 0-0...But Deulofeu has been sent off after two bookings in the first half...I suspect that means he also will miss the next match as well

WTF Deulofeu got 2 yellow cards (Red Card) in the 1st half!!! :S

EDIT: Spain 1 - 1 Armenia

Goals: Suso 65' Hakobyan 72'

Jese missed a penalty 84 min (Penalty won by Grimaldo).

Jesé Rodríguez was subbed (in/Real Madrid) to replace Paco Alcácer (out/Valencia) at 61 min.
--------------

EDIT: Juanmi (Malaga) scored the winner for Spain in the 94th min !!!

2-1 FT for Spain!!

free_cat wrote:According to Mundo Deportivo:

Montoya, Muniesa, Bartra, Tello and JDS will be promoted (maybe some of them sold with buy-back clause).

I guess we already knew this would happen. Will be interested in who we keep, bets for me depend on who our signings are. Montoya will be there. I think it depends on preseason too.

Femenia will continue at B although his contract says he should be promoted.

Weird... the only way this could happen is if the contract was renegotiated, which means he preferred to stay at Barca B rather than a transfer. He's not gonna be good enough, but I think he'll be good in his second season for B.

Miño and Armando (Kizz ) won't be renewed. Riverola is leaving to Bologna.

Thank god... Hmm... I thought Mino would always at least leave with a buy-back. Never rated Riverola.

Sergi Roberto, Rodri and Rosell might leave.

Noooo! Can't say I didn't expect it though. Cesc has pretty much ended Roberto's chances. Roberto obviously didn't progress this season as expected but I think he should stay on. With Keita leaving he might get some more chances too. I think it is down to him, and whether he believes he can stay and fight for a spot. I would completely understand if he saw his situation as one with all doors blocked though.

Rodri was a massive flop... should have gone for a different type of player. I guess they would be too expensive, but Paco and Juanmi are two players I really like.

Rosell never good enough. Hope he can find somewhere he can make it.

Miguel Bañuz, Patri, Quintillà, Dongou, Miguel Angel, Grimaldo and Sergio Ayala will be promoted from Juvenil A.

Hopes for Banuz, I hear he's good.

Patri will be the next Gabri, Sanchez, Ilie... useless midfielder who can never make it at Barca.

Dongou, Angel and Grimaldo are all quality. Grimaldo and Dongou should push for starting berths.

Will be interesting to see Ayala... Might turn out like another Rosell, but I think he's a bit better.

The B targets to sign a RB, two centerbacks, a midfielder and a forward.

http://www.mundodeportivo.com/20120521/un-lateral-derecho-dos-centrales-un-mediocentro-y-un-delantero-fichajes-del-b_54295167178.html

Sign some older guys (Soriano types...) as we don't have many experienced players. If there are some promising CBs or forwards from Argentina or something... might be worth spending a little bit too.