Re: Matchday 34: Barcelona - Real Madrid | Sat Apr 21st | 20:00 CET/14:00 ET

by billy_gr Sun Apr 22, 2012 5:55 pm

Nameless wrote:
billy_gr wrote:the time I saw the line up i told my friends we're gonna concede by a corner kick...

Why Pique didn't play again?
Pep probably gave him a bit of rest against Chelsea clash, wise choice by Pep tbf.

he wasn't even tired...
he didn't play against Chelsea in S Bridge

by Albiceleste Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:01 pm

Another thing I didn't understand is why Messi was dropping so far back when we had 4 midfielders in Thiago Xavi Iniesta and Busquets. Had Messi been on the end of atleast one of those chances that we have had over the past two games we would be in a much different situation.

by bazinga Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:27 pm

Albiceleste wrote:Another thing I didn't understand is why Messi was dropping so far back when we had 4 midfielders in Thiago Xavi Iniesta and Busquets. Had Messi been on the end of atleast one of those chances that we have had over the past two games we would be in a much different situation.

I agree. Couldn't figure out the point.

by The Franchise Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:13 pm

The rationale is, Messi gets anxious about not seeing enough of the ball and comes in search for it.

In the first 10 minutes, I dont think he touched the ball and thus went in search for it.

Maybe he loses patience too quickly, maybe he needs to trust they will get him in the ball.

However, I think even though he comes deep, if he takes a centerback with him (he took Pepe with him lots of times) then you need someone running into that space.

Alexis, Villa and Pedro have all scored vs Madrid like this.

Tello didnt do it enough, but when he did he got chances...Xavi did did it, he got a chance.

Dani Alves isnt a forward, though even he got through once.

But the biggest issue was there wasnt nearly enough of it.

by Lord Hades Mon Apr 23, 2012 12:44 pm

a very simplistic observation : from what i saw in the last 2 games, you did create chances,perhaps not as much or clear cut as you may have liked but still multiple never the less.. what is i mportant is that your best striker/ goal scorer / big game finisher a la messi never got to the end of any if iam not wrong.. was he played too deep?

by The Franchise Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:05 pm

Yes and no.

I think we need to seperate Chelsea and Madrid.

Against Chelsea, we got many chances and at least 4 that should have been finished, another 2 which on another day normally could of been finished.

Against Madrid, we lacked as many chances as we wanted. I feel this is because we didnt have players running in behind.

Messi does come too deep sometimes and he needs to exercise a little more patience that we will find him the ball. However, when he comes deep and drags a CB with him (which he did do) then in previous years we had Villa and Pedro running into that space, getting in behind.

We didnt have this vs Madrid often enough. When we did (Tello and Xavi) we got 1 v 1's...normally we have much more of this.

by messixaviesta Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:00 pm

bazinga wrote:For the first time in three years, JD, I'm not optimistic of a result against Chelsea.

I feel you bazinga. We've played into their hands. Carlton Palmer said on 'Ten Action' that Chelsea's only hope was to get a 1-0 in the first leg and that's exactly what they got making it even more ominous in my eyes.

by messixaviesta Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:05 pm

bazinga wrote:
Albiceleste wrote:Another thing I didn't understand is why Messi was dropping so far back when we had 4 midfielders in Thiago Xavi Iniesta and Busquets. Had Messi been on the end of atleast one of those chances that we have had over the past two games we would be in a much different situation.

I agree. Couldn't figure out the point.

Actually I think he did much more of that in the Chelsea game and in this game I felt his judgment in this aspect was comparatively better.

by messixaviesta Mon Apr 23, 2012 5:07 pm

The Franchise wrote:Yes and no.

I think we need to seperate Chelsea and Madrid.

Against Chelsea, we got many chances and at least 4 that should have been finished, another 2 which on another day normally could of been finished.

Against Madrid, we lacked as many chances as we wanted. I feel this is because we didnt have players running in behind.

Messi does come too deep sometimes and he needs to exercise a little more patience that we will find him the ball. However, when he comes deep and drags a CB with him (which he did do) then in previous years we had Villa and Pedro running into that space, getting in behind.

We didnt have this vs Madrid often enough. When we did (Tello and Xavi) we got 1 v 1's...normally we have much more of this.

Cent percent spot on. Very well said.

by BarcaLearning Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:40 pm

My thoughts I posted in the General Section thread..... but here I think we should be unhappy but not be over critical....

messixaviesta wrote:I don't think in the entire era of Pep Guardiola, I have ever had more reason to say Real Madrid won fair and square and fully deserved their victory. Congratulations to them.

Our tiki taka has deteriorated to an extent. On the other Madrid's counter attacking football has only become better and better. We are definitely not the best team in the world any more. So Madrid probably have as much right to that label as any other team in the world as of now.

As for tonight's game I don't want to say much but just that how can you hope to create scoring chances if you play a match without any forwards? Messi played like a false number 9 tonight but was unable to breach the last line of defense. He did have s short spell of greatness in which he made a couple of peach passes. Tello just showed that a kid has no place in El Classico. Any time the ball went to him the move invariably broke down. Iniesta worked hard but couldn't produce any of his trademark magic to handle the physicality of Di Maria and Khedira in particular. Xavi was below his standards. D.Alves also had quite a poor game although in his defense the way he was played was not suited to his strengths. With Tello as our left forward and D.Alves as our right forward we diminished our own chances as much as we possibly could even before the game began. Anyway my purpose is not at all to discuss individual blame. All I am trying to say is that there was no running behind the defense and very little cutting edge as a whole. In retrospect Pedro just had to be in the starting lineup tonight no matter what kind of form he was in.

One final thought in my mind is that the false number 9 business has outlived it's welcome and the next tactical change should be bringing an orthodox center forward whose main job will be putting the ball in the back of the net. Messi can play as second striker or even on the right wing. Anyway it's too early to start such a discussion now.

Critical but soem valids points in there....although Real certainly didnt outplay us to earn the best team tag surely. IT was a close 2-1 loss. Mourinho deserves praise but I dont think Real were all that great tbh, but they certainly limited us well in their gameplay and defensing especailly. We werent at our best either though, but I think more to do with some selection issues and unabe to raise our game factor this time....

We becoming more predictable and teams countering us better was only a matter of time, and I think Dani and others mentions a lot that we have evolved as well but probably we just cant always win.

Khaled wrote:Hard Luck Barcelona...
Real Madrid deserves the Liga this season... Yes, they didn't dominate in this match, but we made mistakes and they scored from them..
While, Barcelona attacked with numbers but yet didn't create enough chances, on the other hand we left a lot of spaces at the back... Pique should have played in this match (but its seems he's not 100% fit), with a 4-3-3 formation... ( We can't play 3-4-3, at one point 4 forwards, and not concede goals against a great counter-attacking team like madrid).

Hard luck again, this squad won a lot of trophies for Barcelona (i can't complain).. we can't win every year and every single trophy.. we are still in competition for #UCL and #Copa.. So Gd Luck Barca

Viscaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Love Khaled, we need ur spirits here more often now than ever Razz

by danyjr Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:18 pm

Messi is becoming lazy. You heard it from me first. I genuinely think Valdes covered more ground than him.

Also stop the 'Barcelona were outplayed' stuff. They didn't. It was a very even match. Had Xavi and Tello converted those simple chances most of you'd be over the moon now. It's like the Thiago thread, after one bad performance everyone jumping on him.

by shinigami99 Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:24 pm

I agree dany. While Messi has at times been a machine in front of goal, this has not been his most consistent season. Maybe it's fatigue that is finally catching up to him(we all know how damn good a rested Messi plays).

There are times in matches where his movement leaves a lot to be desired.

But we(or at least I) as Barca fans cannot possibly hate Messi no matter how bad he gets. He has simply given us so much despite being only 24

by messixaviesta Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:45 pm

learning, fair comments from you. I would ask you one question though. If Real Madrid win both La Liga and UCL this season, then do you think they would have earned the right to be called the best team in the world?

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