Re: Italian National Team Thread

[Valkyrja]

For EURO2012

GK: Buffon, Sirigu, Viviano
DEF: Maggio, Abate, Chiellini, Ranocchia, Barzagli, Astori, Criscito, Santon
MID: Pirlo, DDR, Marchisio, Poli, Nocerino, Montolivo, Motta
ATT: Balotelli, Pazzini, Cassano, Giovinco, Di Natale

-----------------Gigi----------------
--Maggio--Chiellini-Barzagli--Criscito--
----------------Pirlo----------------
------------DDR----Poli/Marchisio-----
--------------Giovinco--------------
----------Balotelli--Pazzini----------

[Luca]

How do you not have faith in Chiellini? He will be leading the back line of Italy so if you don't have faith in him, you don't have faith in the defense, period.

I agree that a 4 man back four is a must.
Montolivo is also not a guarantee, fairly anonymous in a below par Fiorentina season.

Cassano will be the key to the attack, hands down.
Giovinco should be there.
Balotelli too.

Ideally,

Giovinco-Balotelli
Cassano
Marchisio-Pirlo-DDR
Criscito-Chiellini-Barzagli-Maggio
Buffon

The attack and the attacking midfield spot is the most intriguing in my opinion.

You have Pazzini and Matri who have fallen off the Earth
Osvaldo who is such a question mark
Di Natale who just keeps scoring

Now you have Quagliarella and even Boriello (don't count him out if he scores in the next few games, 2 in his last 2, I'm not saying he should be there but don't be surprised if his name surfaces soon)

Then there are players like Diamanti, Mauri who could be interesting selections. Then again, Totti, Alex as the veterans who can make a difference if called upon.

first goal: chiellini leaves his position to try to cover De Rossi, and fails an interception, the pass slides through the gap Chiellini created... there was no need for him to make that challenge, and with Marchetti in net, the ball slides in.

2nd goal, off the corner, again.. you can't blame anyone but Chiellini and Marchetti, it's literally no one else's fault this time.

3rd goal: it was chiellini's terrible backpass to Marchetti which forced him to do the only useful thing he did in the world cup which was save a corner. unfortunately the ball slips between chiellini and cannavaro and someone else, and marchetti fails again.

and that was the biggest game of his life. Now today when I watch him, everytime I notice the little mistakes, and ask myself "would this be costly in a big game?" the answer is usually a yes. Even with Italy, he has been outshined by Ranocchia in the group stages (I don't think Ranocchia > Chiellini though). I don't hate Chiellini, I just don't buy into the hype that he's that beastly Italian defender every good Italian team has had. I think that defender is Barzagli. If you threw Ogbonna in to start instead of Chiellini, I wouldn't shed a tear. Perhaps my opinion of him will change come another big tournament, but time is ticking.

To answer your question, no I don't have faith in Italy's defense. Maggio has been exposed in the past , but I trust him offensively. Criscito could go either way, he's been a beast when I've seen him but I've hardly seen him, same goes for Ogbonna. Ranocchia can go either way, Bonucci could go either way, Chiellini could go either way. So we could have an amazing defense, a mediocre one, or a horrid one. I have faith in Italy because I have faith in Prandelli, Barzagli, Buffon, the midfield and Cassano.

--------------------------------------

On another note: Just like I've said with Balzaretti and Cassani.... people like Miccoli are too old to just throw in and introduce to a team like this. We have a plan, and that plan doesn't involve a risky 30+ year old. We'd rather take risks on our youngsters if we're going to be taking any risks at all. Di Natale I'd trust, but not for penalties lmao.

What is this man?
I am not with you on these points

WC 2010 he was also next to an aged Cannavaro, defending an inexperienced goalkeeper and also next to an inexperienced defender in Criscito, no one is safe from this squad.

What about Euro 2008, when Giorgio was Italy's standout defender?
Chiellini is far from the weak link in the defense that you're making him out to be, there is absolutely no problems with that back four in my opinion. It couldn't be any stronger with the players available.

And for Juventus, Chiellini has a lot more responsibilities that Barzagli, he pushes forward a lot more for one thing which forces him to track back. He doesn't have the luxury of having a strong defender on the wing next to him, as Barzagli has Lichtsteiner either. And yet, it is Chiellini who is the backbone to the defense, but Barzagli has been great too, just not better than Giorgio.

If Italy has the core defense that Juventus does (Buffon, Barzagli, Chiellini) then I have no doubt in that defense.

[zarola]

My apologies I meant to say qualifications, not group stages - although I don't think that caused confusion.

in the world cup Quagliarella had to play against monkeys and in front of monkeys and that didn't stop him from shining. Don't use Cannavaro as a scapegoat.

Chiellini was a standout at Euro 2008, ok, I will admit that. But he didn't replicate that form in the next tournament. And he did good with Panucci beside him, even better. So it's evident you can't use the whole "Cannavaro was beside him" excuse.

Chiellini has been solid, yes I agree. Ok, here goes.... since I have nothing else better to do and Juve doesn't have that many goals conceded, I'll go for it. [this is gonna make me look like a huge Chiellini hater but it's not the case].


Juventus - Bologna corner kick in: his man, didn't jump with him. 1-1. 2 pts costed .
Catania - Juventus - low cross played into Chiellini's man, Chiellini is beaten because he fails to remain ball side of his opponent. I'm not making this crap up or exaggerating, this goal especially is hugely his fault, 2 pts caused for Juventus.
Juventus - Genoa - again, not making this up. check it out for yourself, I can provide links if you'd like. A cross is played in, it's clearly Chiellini's man to mark, it's just Chiellini and that guy there. Goal. other goal not really his fault. Another 2 pts.
Napoli Juventus - second goal is Chiellini's fault, though I think it's Bonucci who initially gives the ball away, irregardless, Chiellini allows Pandev to slip behind him with ease. 2pts.
Juventus Cagliari - chiellini mistouches a cross, and an amazing volley is put in, I'm not going to blame him for this one.
Bologna Juventus simple ball played through Chiellini and someone else, not sure who, don't care, goal, costed Juve 2 pts. Perhaps I'm a bit harsh to blame him here.

there you have it... a great defender

prone to mistakes, even against the small teams. Some of his mistakes cost him goals, others do not.

Why am I not 100% confident in Chiellini? He makes mistakes here and there and in a big tournament a strong Italian team cannot afford to make defensive errors like that. He has been solid throughout the season, I do think he is a good defender, just not the messiah everyone makes him out to be.

[Luca]

Provide the links, we'll settle this.
Although, I would never say he doesn't make mistakes, just not as error prone as you may think.

I do very much consider Chiellini to be the messiah, absolutely. I am biased but I have no doubt in his ability as a defender and as a leader. Without a doubt the best Italian defender playing today.

[zarola]

See, this is where you and I agree. I love debates though, and I don't mind being proven wrong.

juventus bologna https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1xVxH8gDmk 1:55 though it's brief, it is his fault if you can't tell from that I'd find a video with more extended highlights but I couldn't find any others because the stupid recent 1-1 draw comes up all of the time
catania - juventus http://www.caughtoffside.com/2011/09/25/catania-1-1-juventus-serie-a-highlights-video/ start of the video.
genoa https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyIpY_K7gP8&feature=related 0:45
napoli https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJudO5pGwNw 1:15
cagliari :vagi: that was bonucci chiellini didn't even play
bologna juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG5h3_BVfeU like I said, and I wouldn't argue with you, I'm probably being too harsh on him here, but it was mentioned before thus I provided the link.

[juventus101]

I think it should pretty obviously look something like this:

--Buffon--
--Maggio-- --Barzagli-- --Bonucci-- --Chiellini--
--De Rossi-- --Pirlo-- --Marchisio--
--Giovinco--
--Cassano-- --Balotelli--

Giovinco and Cassano are interchangeable in this formationand I think that would work to Italy's advantage so they couldn't be man marked out of the game. On to the bench, I think De Ceglie and Quagliarella have both deserved call ups after their recent great form, and despite Matrix poor form, he's still one of our best options so I would keep him. I would also love to have any one of Totti, Del Piero or Miccoli, but I can't expect more than one of them to be called up, so I would say Del Piero as I'm a Juventus fan. So in my opinion the bench should look like this: De Sanctis, Cannavaro, Ranocchia, De Ceglie, Aquilani, Nocerino, Ambrosini, Giaccherini, Pepe, Del Piero, Di Natale, Matri.
Ceglie

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

Why not use the system that has kept Italy's best team unbeaten all season?

Buffon
Maggio Barzagli Bonucci Chiellini Santon
Pirlo
DDR Marchisio
Cassano Balotelli

[zarola]

all these bonucci's are painful to see

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

all these bonucci's are painful to see

Yh i know but he has been good since Juventus changed to 3-5-2 and i could'nt think of any other Italian CB to be the 3rd centre back

[juventus101]

Yea i was thinking about Italy actually using the 352, with Maggio and Pepe/Giacch as the wingbacks, but that would mean leaving out one of Giovinco or Cassano. I think if Rossi was healthy it woulf work with him as he can score and create equally, but Gio and Cassano just cannot score well enough for me, and all the scoring burden cant be on Balotelli, althiugh the midfield, as it does for Juve, would also score alot. It could work actually. Either way. Lol

[Luca]

Why not use the system that has kept Italy's best team unbeaten all season?

Buffon
Maggio Barzagli Bonucci Chiellini Santon
Pirlo
DDR Marchisio
Cassano Balotelli

Hasn't been used by Prandelli yet, maybe too late to change up now?
Criscito over Santon, sorry
Or else, I like it because Maggio is suited to this and the core of the team being from Juventus really helps (chemistry)

See, this is where you and I agree. I love debates though, and I don't mind being proven wrong.

juventus bologna https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1xVxH8gDmk 1:55 though it's brief, it is his fault if you can't tell from that I'd find a video with more extended highlights but I couldn't find any others because the stupid recent 1-1 draw comes up all of the time
catania - juventus http://www.caughtoffside.com/2011/09/25/catania-1-1-juventus-serie-a-highlights-video/ start of the video.
genoa https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyIpY_K7gP8&feature=related 0:45
napoli https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJudO5pGwNw 1:15
cagliari :vagi: that was bonucci chiellini didn't even play
bologna juventus https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG5h3_BVfeU like I said, and I wouldn't argue with you, I'm probably being too harsh on him here, but it was mentioned before thus I provided the link.

Thanks for providing the links, yeah I agree with you. Chiellini was asleep on a lot of those, the only one I would argue is Napoli, a little harsh on him. Even the second Bologna game, it was both central defenders who got exposed there and also credit to the attack on that one, it was a great ball.

Chiellini is still the backbone of that Juventus defense and I really don't see him having similar errors in the Euro, notice how none of the errors came in big games, Giorgio under pressure is fantastic. Not trying to give him an excuse, these errors led to dropped points in a lot of cases but if he was making them against the top opposition his value would drop, for me.

[zarola]

I suppose the only thing you could defend in favour of Chiellini for that instance against Napoli is the fact that he probably thought Pandev was offside but bonucci was too lazy to quickly get back up on his feet and join the line, but other than that .. it was chiellini's man to mark.

but yeah, like you said, they were against small teams and hopefully we will see a chiellini destroy big teams. Honestly I love the guy, I have nothing against him, and the fact that he has like university degrees in economics or something is quite inspirational to be honest. I'm just expressing why I just can't picture him as being that top Italian defender every Italian team has had. Although I see Chiellini doing better tackles I don't see Barzagli slipping up as much as Chiellini, so in terms of reliability I have more trust in Barzagli than I do Chiellini.

in terms of Bonucci, if I see him play , I will shit my pants more than once. If we actually played with 5 in the back like in mole's formation, I would trust De Rossi in the middle way more than I would Bonucci, and don't forget we have Ogbonna: who I think was freaking amazing on his debut start for Italy (outshined everyone there). I can't judge him on any performance other than that, unfortunately though. But from what I've seen...

[Great Leader Sprucenuce]

Haha clearly Santon wont start i doubt he will even go with the squad, Euro 2012 is too early for him i feel but i just wanted to put him in there to see the response

As for De Rossi at CB who would you play in midfield alongside Marchisio and Pirlo if that were to happen?

Btw if the 3-5-2/5-3-2 is a no go i would go with this.......

Buffon
Maggio Barzagli Chiellini Criscito/PDC
Pirlo
De Rossi Marchisio
Cassano
Giovinco Balotelli

[Mr Nick09]

Mole, the 352 is the best formation tho, you had it right before, just copy whatever Juventus is doing.

[zarola]

Haha clearly Santon wont start i doubt he will even go with the squad, Euro 2012 is too early for him i feel but i just wanted to put him in there to see the response

As for De Rossi at CB who would you play in midfield alongside Marchisio and Pirlo if that were to happen?

Btw if the 3-5-2/5-3-2 is a no go i would go with this.......

Buffon
Maggio Barzagli Chiellini Criscito/PDC
Pirlo
De Rossi Marchisio
Cassano
Giovinco Balotelli

I strongly disagree with you when you say it's too early for Santon and Italy. His performances for Italy have been magnificent, and I will repeat what I constantly say on this forum. IF Prandelli is actually a man of his word, if he's to stick on this new young and fresh Italian squad, then he should not give introductions to the likes of Balzaretti and Cassani to the Italy squad. They are both mediocre players, why not take Santon over them? He can cover both of their positions too.

If De Rossi were to play CB for us in a 3 CB formation, someone like Thiago Motta could replace him. We have soooo many good midfielders nowadays.

[•MilanDevil•]

Does anyone know when the final squad will be chosen?

[dostoevsky]

I still have certain reservations over Prandelli, however he deserves credit for a squad that illustrated an ability to make courageous decisions, even if there are still names I feel should not be even in such a large provisional list.

Goalkeepers:Buffon (Juventus), De Sanctis (Napoli), Sirigu (Paris St. Germain), Viviano (Palermo);

Defenders:Abate (Milan), Astori (Cagliari), Balzaretti (Palermo), Barzagli (Juventus), Bocchetti (Rubin Kazan), Bonucci (Juventus), Chiellini (Juventus), Criscito (Zenit San Pietroburgo), Maggio (Napoli), Ogbonna (Torino), Ranocchia (Inter);

Midfielders:Cigarini (Atalanta), De Rossi (Roma), Diamanti (Bologna), Giaccherini (Juventus), Marchisio (Juventus), Montolivo (Fiorentina), Thiago Motta (Paris St. Germain), Nocerino (Milan), Pirlo (Juventus),Schelotto (Atalanta), Verratti (Pescara);

Forwards:Balotelli (Manchester City), Borini (Roma), Cassano (Milan), Destro (Siena), Di Natale (Udinese), Giovinco (Parma)

[Forza]

I still have certain reservations over Prandelli, however he deserves credit for a squad that illustrated an ability to make courageous decisions, even if there are still names I feel should not be even in such a large provisional list.

Goalkeepers:Buffon (Juventus), De Sanctis (Napoli), Sirigu (Paris St. Germain), Viviano (Palermo);

Defenders:Abate (Milan), Astori (Cagliari), Balzaretti (Palermo), Barzagli (Juventus), Bocchetti (Rubin Kazan), Bonucci (Juventus), Chiellini (Juventus), Criscito (Zenit San Pietroburgo), Maggio (Napoli), Ogbonna (Torino), Ranocchia (Inter);

Midfielders:Cigarini (Atalanta), De Rossi (Roma), Diamanti (Bologna), Giaccherini (Juventus), Marchisio (Juventus), Montolivo (Fiorentina), Thiago Motta (Paris St. Germain), Nocerino (Milan), Pirlo (Juventus), Schelotto (Atalanta), Verratti (Pescara);

Forwards:Balotelli (Manchester City), Borini (Roma), Cassano (Milan), Destro (Siena), Di Natale (Udinese), Giovinco (Parma)

Fixed.

[McLewis]

That's a good call on Destro from Prandelli. Kid has been killing it.

12 goals this season. Fantastic from one so young. It'll be either him or Borini making the cut and I can honestly see Borini missing out. Form dipped at the wrong time this season.

[Forza]

Does Giovinco really fit into this team? Even though he is talented, I can't see him being used effectively together with the other players in the team. I can't imagine Pirlo and Gio in the same line-up.

[Luca]

Does Giovinco really fit into this team? Even though he is talented, I can't see him being used effectively together with the other players in the team. I can't imagine Pirlo and Gio in the same line-up.

May I ask why?
Pirlo and Giovinco are completely different players and they have both featured for Italy at the same time before

[McLewis]

Pirlo operates deeper into midfield for Italy just as he did for Juventus. Giovinco works further up in the attacking third. I honestly don't see a problem with them co-existing in the same XI.

[7amood11]

The 8 players I'd cut from the squad:

Goalkeepers:Buffon (Juventus), De Sanctis (Napoli), Sirigu (Paris St. Germain), Viviano (Palermo);

Defenders:Abate (Milan), Astori (Cagliari), Balzaretti (Palermo), Barzagli (Juventus), Bocchetti (Rubin Kazan), Bonucci (Juventus), Chiellini (Juventus), Criscito (Zenit San Pietroburgo), Maggio (Napoli), Ogbonna (Torino), Ranocchia (Inter);

Midfielders:Cigarini (Atalanta), De Rossi (Roma), Diamanti (Bologna), Giaccherini (Juventus), Marchisio (Juventus), Montolivo (Fiorentina), Thiago Motta (Paris St. Germain), Nocerino (Milan), Pirlo (Juventus),Schelotto (Atalanta), Verratti (Pescara);

Forwards:Balotelli (Manchester City), Borini (Roma), Cassano (Milan), Destro (Siena), Di Natale (Udinese), Giovinco (Parma)

[ErPupone]

A few tough decisions to make. I would go with this.

Goalkeepers:Buffon (Juventus), De Sanctis (Napoli), Sirigu (Paris St. Germain), Viviano (Palermo);

Defenders:Abate (Milan), Astori (Cagliari), Balzaretti (Palermo), Barzagli (Juventus), Bocchetti (Rubin Kazan), Bonucci (Juventus), Chiellini (Juventus), Criscito (Zenit San Pietroburgo), Maggio (Napoli), Ogbonna (Torino), Ranocchia (Inter);

Midfielders:Cigarini (Atalanta), De Rossi (Roma), Diamanti (Bologna), Giaccherini (Juventus), Marchisio (Juventus), Montolivo (Fiorentina), Thiago Motta (Paris St. Germain), Nocerino (Milan), Pirlo (Juventus),Schelotto (Atalanta), Verratti (Pescara);

Forwards:Balotelli (Manchester City), Borini (Roma), Cassano (Milan), Destro (Siena), Di Natale (Udinese), Giovinco (Parma)



Tough call on the defenders. I decided to opt for Ogbonna over Balzaretti as a sub LB, therefore keeping both Astori and Bonucci as back up CB's. RB's are a given.

Midfield, I don't see Cigarini as being good enough. I preferred Giaccherini over Schelotto in order to provide width in midfield, though in that case I would rather move Maggio up and put in Abate at RB. Verratti isn't ready yet, though he's definitely one for the future. I would integrate him next autumn. And I chose Nocerino over Motta for that last CM spot.

Up front, I'm not a huge Di Natale fan, I feel like it's a step back in calling him up again. But fine, I guess we should only keep one between Destro and Borini, not both. I would love to see Borini on the team personally, so I'll go with him, but it would be fully understandable of Prandelli prefers Destro.

[Sticchio]

Goalkeepers:Buffon (Juventus), De Sanctis (Napoli), Sirigu (Paris St. Germain), Viviano (Palermo);

Defenders:Abate (Milan), Astori (Cagliari), Balzaretti (Palermo), Barzagli (Juventus), Bocchetti (Rubin Kazan), Bonucci (Juventus), Chiellini (Juventus), Criscito (Zenit San Pietroburgo), Maggio (Napoli), Ogbonna (Torino), Ranocchia (Inter);

Midfielders:Cigarini (Atalanta), De Rossi (Roma), Diamanti (Bologna), Giaccherini (Juventus), Marchisio (Juventus), Montolivo (Fiorentina), Thiago Motta (Paris St. Germain), Nocerino (Milan), Pirlo (Juventus),Schelotto (Atalanta), Verratti (Pescara);

Forwards:Balotelli (Manchester City), Borini (Roma), Cassano (Milan), Destro (Siena), Di Natale (Udinese), Giovinco (Parma)

Viviano was not chosen for me, as I think he is a great talent, and although for Palermo's poor performances this season, Viviano has done some great things in the event of things. Surely his injury did play part as he has fallen a bit from the past, but we shouldn't conclude him in the future. Sirigu for me is my ideal choice, he has completely transformed since joining PSG and was pronounced one of the best keepers in Ligue 1.

Defenders for me, quite honestly was fairly easy. The fullbacks are predictable, while the centerbacks.. it's obvious that Astori and Bocchetti won't appear as fourth choices. I chose Ogbonna over Ranocchia. Yes, Ranocchia has capped more apperances, and he does have a lot of potential. But he is in very poor form. Choosing Ogbonna for me is the right choice, as he proved all his doubters wrong vs. USA as he was the best player on the pitch. Seems like Prandelli is getting confident in him, with these recent call ups. Overall his pace, height, and defensively solid skills is what adds the extra quality to this defense.

Midfielders, I excluded Diamanti, because Prandelli said he was not happy with how Prandelli was not notified when Diamanti was sick during a Romania friendly. He is a quality player, just for me.. not good enough for the national team. Verratti is a keeper for me, he was chosen over the likes of Lodi and Prandelli confirmed it himself that he wants him to be vice for Pirlo. Surely, that dosent mean now, however who do we have realistaclly in this squad right now who can be vice? Montolivo is a starter, there's no Aquilani... Cigarini? Good player, but not good enough to be his vice. Verratti is way talented for his age, sure lacks experience, but he does have the right mentality and maturity to handle himself. Schelotto dosen't cut it for me, I love his talent, but just dosen't fit in our system. Giaccherini, not his biggest fan, however he provides lots of energy and is a great player to have on your bench.

Strikers... We all know all except Destro(maybe) is going to the Euros. Im happy for Borini.

[Guest]

Italy tested out a new trident attack of Antonio Cassano, Mario Balotelli and Sebastian Giovinco in training.

Cesare Prandelli is trying out different options in the lead-up to Euro 2012 and will have to reduce his 32-man squad to 23 by May 29.

In a game between ranks he tested two opposing tridents, as one team lined up with Cassano on the right, Balotelli as centre-forward and Giovinco on the left.

The other team had Mattia Destro, Antonio Di Natale and Fabio Borini together.

It was also notable as the first game played by Riccardo Montolivo, who is on the road to recovery from a thigh strain.

The players from Napoli, Juventus and Paris Saint-Germain have now joined the training camp, but did not take part in that session.

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