its good for alves he will get rest. also people who say refcelona must watch this game. so actually everything ended very good in this game

A bit scary how slow "on purpose" the rhythm was in the first half, fatigue or injury are indeed a scary idea at this phase but i hope we see less of this still tbh... but when we had to turn on the heat it was quality!

Messi's night and he did his dance !


oh and this is my 100th msg here, can i please get my cake now ?

billionmillion wrote:its good for alves he will get rest. also people who say refcelona must watch this game. so actually everything ended very good in this game

Absolutely, this season we have had a big share of Reff bad decisions, personally im far from thinking that there is actually "a conspiracy" against us, but as you said refcelona thing should have died by now.

free_cat wrote:I think the first was a penalty. The second is clearly not a deliberate hand, so it shouldn't be a penalty. Plus, Teixeira should have whistled a penalty on Alexis in the first half. But you know, double standards against Barça.

Im with Franchise on the first one but the 2nd was a joke. Didnt the ball hit Alves thighs first? If thats the case then why wasn't xabi alonsos a penalty when he did the same against betis?

Srsly the refs in la liga are just horrible...

harhar11 wrote:

free_cat wrote:I think the first was a penalty. The second is clearly not a deliberate hand, so it shouldn't be a penalty. Plus, Teixeira should have whistled a penalty on Alexis in the first half. But you know, double standards against Barça.

Im with Franchise on the first one but the 2nd was a joke. Didnt the ball hit Alves thighs first? If thats the case then why wasn't xabi alonsos a penalty when he did the same against betis?

Srsly the refs in la liga are just horrible...

Alonsos was straight to his hand I believe I think you may be thinking of Ramos' handball in the same game

I don't watch all Barcelona matches therefore what I say is based on my observations. Small sample? Maybe. However I watch them 5-6 times a year in Camp Nou and used to do so even more frequently back when I lived in Barcelona. Maybe, MAYBE you have seen him more and he isn't lazy but his average distance covered is less than Xavi or Fábregas. He had a few matches where he ran a lot (against BATE if I'm not mistaken). Considering he is always the freshest out of all midfielders, it is only logical to be able to outrun his peers, no?

I said CAM not CM. CAMs more or less cover as much ground as DMs.

By the way, I have played football as a LB for London's top university - not any more, I started to come up with strange opinions - rather than type it on a forum. Do I come up with strange opinions rather than gargle what's written on the newspapers? So did Einstein, Galileo and Picasso. Yeah, I'm THAT good!

1st penalty was a clear tug and pull and second one was 50-50, his arms sticking out, can't risk it. Just saying, don't get used to Øvrebø not calling penalties against Barça...

Albiceleste wrote:

harhar11 wrote:

free_cat wrote:I think the first was a penalty. The second is clearly not a deliberate hand, so it shouldn't be a penalty. Plus, Teixeira should have whistled a penalty on Alexis in the first half. But you know, double standards against Barça.

Im with Franchise on the first one but the 2nd was a joke. Didnt the ball hit Alves thighs first? If thats the case then why wasn't xabi alonsos a penalty when he did the same against betis?

Srsly the refs in la liga are just horrible...

Alonsos was straight to his hand I believe I think you may be thinking of Ramos' handball in the same game

I dont know, I recall him trying to shot away the ball from the Real Madrid penalty area but he miss hit it and hits his hand.. I might be wrong though..

danyjr wrote:I don't watch all Barcelona matches therefore what I say is based on my observations. Small sample? Maybe. However I watch them 5-6 times a year in Camp Nou and used to do so even more frequently back when I lived in Barcelona. Maybe, MAYBE you have seen him more and he isn't lazy but his average distance covered is less than Xavi or Fábregas. He had a few matches where he ran a lot (against BATE if I'm not mistaken). Considering he is always the freshest out of all midfielders, it is only logical to be able to outrun his peers, no?

I said CAM not CM. CAMs more or less cover as much ground as DMs.

By the way, I have played football as a LB for London's top university - not any more, I started to come up with strange opinions - rather than type it on a forum. Do I come up with strange opinions rather than gargle what's written on the newspapers? So did Einstein, Galileo and Picasso. Yeah, I'm THAT good!

1st penalty was a clear tug and pull and second one was 50-50, his arms sticking out, can't risk it. Just saying, don't get used to Øvrebø not calling penalties against Barça...

As it has been proven if alves would have had a white shirt on none of the 2 pen would have been called.

Øvrebø, huh? The myth that Øvrebø only perjured chelsea has return!!

Sure, Madrid have got plenty of decisions in favour of them this season. All I want is justice and to me Alves did give 1.5 penalties away, don't you think?

The Franchise wrote:5 nil, great result and great performance.

Messi was another display of ruthless finishing and Alves with some great assists.

Can we really call it a great performance? Even Messi didn't look satisfied, and he scored 3 goals, provided an assist, and is the all-time club top scorer!

The complacency got to me, I was rather frustrated with the team.

As far as Thiago as a DM he has already shown previously he can do a much better job at the role than Keita and maybe even Masche. I don't see why he wouldn't be given the job again.

Could someone tell me which matches was Thiago used as a DM?

DM's first and most important job is protecting the back four. Is Thiago really capable of that? His positioning, work-rate (yes I know some will disagree) and tackling doesn't seem to be decent for a DM and I believe he can be prone to doing mistakes - especially against good teams I can see him lose the ball more often than not.

Yeah I wouldn't call it a great performance either. I think offensively it was good however defensively it was one of Barcelona's poorest home matches this season. I would worry about the way Barcelona defend set-pieces and I think Abidal's absence will be felt in Champions League as opposition teams will be targeting Barcelona on air. Chelsea and Madrid especially - as well as Milan who have already scored a corner against Barcelona: Thiago Silva, and Bayern's Gómez who is a fantastic header of the ball. In fact any team with aerial thread (eg Copa final vs Athletic Bilabo) are likely to cause Barcelona havoc.

I dont think we were that poor defensively, Granada hardly troubled us though.

If conceding 3 goals at home against a team just outside relegation zone isn't poor defensive work, then I wonder what is deemed poor defensively. Mainly thanks to Dani conceding two unnecessary penalties, although the second one was debatable.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

The Franchise wrote:5 nil, great result and great performance.

Messi was another display of ruthless finishing and Alves with some great assists.

Can we really call it a great performance? Even Messi didn't look satisfied, and he scored 3 goals, provided an assist, and is the all-time club top scorer!

The complacency got to me, I was rather frustrated with the team.

Seemed more frustrated with the result, not the performance.

We played very well I thought. After 2 nil, we took our foot off the gas, then the ref let them back in without Granada actually creating anything for themselves. If the ref wasnt blind, they barely would of even threatened the goal.

Then after the injustices, the players looks annoyed and Messi scored straight away. Then put a whooping on them.

I feel were were in total control and I didnt have any fear we would drop points once it was back to 2-2.

Poor defensively looool

Funny guy.

No, not maybe, I obviously watch more Barca than you do.

Average distance covered dont mean lazy...different opponants, different games. Because he is the freshest he should always outrun his peers? No, how faulty is that? How many cover more distance than Alves? Who plays ALL the time.

Stop the CAM, CM nonesense. Thiago is a midfielder. We dont play with a "CAM" so its irrelevant.

You play football and you still think further forward midfielders work less hard than DM's? Well it was in England, home of the hoof ball and running..perhaps thats why your so confused.

Wont talk about decisions anymore than I have, its obvious to me.

EDIT: Last post is intended for someone who posted on the previous page?

Anyway, danyjr both penalties are debatable. The handsball was definitely not intentional. The hand did move towards the ball. Heck, Dani didn't have time to even think of making a handsball. His hand was just in the way. Unlucky, but not deliberate. The other penalty was even more unjust. The guy was clearly looking for a penalty. Dani was running top speed in persuit and had to pull the handbrake all of a sudden. Hardly worth a penalty. And even if it was a foul, it started outside the box.

Couple things for me to note...

First one is a penalty. Sure the man was looking for a penalty and all (the foul could have easily have gone outside the box) but Dani Alves was practically climbing on his back taking him down in the box. If that's not a foul I don't know what is. I don't care who was looking for a foul or whatever, it was a foul, it was in the box, that is a penalty. I don't see the debate? It's not like he dived either.

2nd penalty is debatable. Handling must be intentional, Franchise got that right. And in my opinion I don't give that penalty. I don't think Alves had enough time to move his hand I don't think he meant for his arm to block that ball.

HOWEVER I am a really lenient person AND I'm biased. MOST refs will call that and A LOT of La Liga refs will call that for much less.

The thing is, it could easily interpreted as this: Dani Alves had his arm in an unnatural position (it kinda was but kinda wasn't), but moreover his arm was making his body wider. By having his arm in that position he certainly gave himself (or accidentally gave himself) a larger chance of blocking that cross- through the use of his arm in that position.

If you look at it like that it's an easy penalty. It's debatable. I don't give that but most will.

On the game, I thought we played very well. Other than the 3 freak goals which will really only happen once a season (and none were from open play just sayin'), then we played fine. The only thing that worried me was the complacency when 2-0. I understand it's Granada but I sure hope they don't look like that 2-0 up against someone much better.

Congrats to Messi though!

Hete BLKSM wrote:Anyway, danyjr both penalties are debatable. The handsball was definitely not intentional. The hand did move towards the ball. Heck, Dani didn't have time to even think of making a handsball. His hand was just in the way. Unlucky, but not deliberate.

I can see where you're coming from and while I'm not saying it was definitely a penalty, I have seen similar penalties like that given before quite a few times. Was the handball unintentional? Absolutely. However you can't open your arms while jockeying, that is why a lot of defenders put their hands behind their body while blocking shots/crosses.

Hete BLKSM wrote:The other penalty was even more unjust. The guy was clearly looking for a penalty. Dani was running top speed in persuit and had to pull the handbrake all of a sudden. Hardly worth a penalty. And even if it was a foul, it started outside the box.

It definitely was a foul and albeit soft, a clear penalty. I blame Dani for giving away an unnecessary foul. But let me explain why I think it was a penalty. The tugging and pulling started outside but it continued inside the penalty area. In these circumstances, the referee calls the foul where the player went down, not where the foul started. In this case, it was inside the box and therefore a penalty.

As far as I know, that's not what the rules are. I was always told that, when a supposed foul stretches out over several meters, the position on the field when the foul started should be the thing you look at when determining whether it is a penalty or not. But (hypothetically) even if this would have taken place entirely in the box, I don't really see an intent from Dani to foul the guy, let alone that it was worth giving a penalty for. Like I said, Dani did not expect him to stop running all of a sudden and to me it really looked like he was trying to avoid hitting the guy as much as possible.

I agree on the fact that we have seen refs give penalties for similar handballs, but that shouldn't mean that it is not wrongly done so.

Both cases miss Dani's intent to make a foul and he didn't even have the time to contemplate making a handsball.

Hete BLKSM wrote:As far as I know, that's not what the rules are. I was always told that, when a supposed foul stretches out over several meters, the position on the field when the foul started should be the thing you look at when determining whether it is a penalty or not. But (hypothetically) even if this would have taken place entirely in the box, I don't really see an intent from Dani to foul the guy, let alone that it was worth giving a penalty for. Like I said, Dani did not expect him to stop running all of a sudden and to me it really looked like he was trying to avoid hitting the guy as much as possible.

I agree on the fact that we have seen refs give penalties for similar handballs, but that shouldn't mean that it is not wrongly done so.

Both cases miss Dani's intent to make a foul and he didn't even have the time to contemplate making a handsball.

I asked a qualified referee and the foul counts on the spot where the opponent goes down given that foul extends to that spot. i.e. if the player is fouled outside the area and falls inside the area, it will be a free-kick not a penalty. However, with Alves' case since the tugging was happening both outside and inside the box therefore the foul counts upon the player going down. In a lot of cases can be seen where a defender starts pulling or back-tackling outside the area but when the attacker enters the area, the defender stops in order to avoid giving away a penalty. Anyway, this is what FIFA says, now if you think there was no foul that's an entirely different story but it seems like a clear foul to me.

As with the second penalty, to me it is a 50-50. Players should avoid opening their arms when blocking crosses/shots. Doesn't matter if it is a deflected ball, you didn't have time to react or even if you had your back against the ball. Tuck your hands behind your body. Pretty basic defending actually.

Again.

Tuck your hands behind your body isnt something you have to do to avoid a pen.

Its something some players do to avoid getting a wrong call go against them.

You can't flap your arms around while defending and not expect to be booked. And I know cause I've been playing football as a defender all my life. Don't like it? Complain to FIFA not to me.

Rules > your opinion

Well played.