I didnt think Pedro was so bad, he did well in terms of making runs and such. The two chances he missed, I think the old Pedro would of put one away. But overall, I didnt think he was bad.

I felt his passing was horrible though, minus the one for Alexis, he tried a coupe through balls in the 1st half which were horribly executed and he doesnt even have that ability (both balls were not easy to make) and probably shouldnt of attempted them.

Watched the first half only, personally I thought Pedro was mediocre and misplaced several passes

Nope. He was not only not bad, but very good.

His passing wasn't horrible. Lost very few balls, and everyone can miss a through ball. Xavi missed aplenty yesterday, no one is slating him. In the contrary, had Xavi made that pass to Alexis, we would be reading that was a "legendary pass". Plus, only Alves can make one-twos with Messi like Pedro does, and he did a lot yesterday, and most of them well executed.

The two chances he had, weren't easy and he shot them well. Palop was simply very good. It's not like Iniesta's chances, that were far easyer and he didn't even manage to shot between the sticks.

i always wanted to give big credit to Pedro's one-twos but had no opportunity to talk about it

free_cat wrote:Nope. He was not only not bad, but very good.

His passing wasn't horrible. Lost very few balls, and everyone can miss a through ball. Xavi missed aplenty yesterday, no one is slating him. In the contrary, had Xavi made that pass to Alexis, we would be reading that was a "legendary pass". Plus, only Alves can make one-twos with Messi like Pedro does, and he did a lot yesterday, and most of them well executed.

The two chances he had, weren't easy and he shot them well. Palop was simply very good. It's not like Iniesta's chances, that were far easyer and he didn't even manage to shot between the sticks.

I dont think that Pedro was awful but I dont think that he was very good either. And imo that chance that Pedro had in the first half was very similiar to the Iniesta chance...

Ok, maybe he wasn't very good, but he was defintely good. I give him an 8 for his performance, only missing is a goal. And no, his chacnes were harder to create and more difficult to bury than Iniesta's, and he at least forced the GK to do two great saves.

billionmillion wrote:i always wanted to give big credit to Pedro's one-twos but had no opportunity to talk about it

Pedro's one-twos don't exist. He can't pass, hence he can't make one-twos. When Messi scores a wonderful goal after two one-twos with Pedro, it's a great Messi goal. No mention about Pedro. When he scores after a Xavi pass, it's a shared credit.

free_cat wrote:Nope. He was not only not bad, but very good.

His passing wasn't horrible. Lost very few balls, and everyone can miss a through ball. Xavi missed aplenty yesterday, no one is slating him. In the contrary, had Xavi made that pass to Alexis, we would be reading that was a "legendary pass". Plus, only Alves can make one-twos with Messi like Pedro does, and he did a lot yesterday, and most of them well executed.

The two chances he had, weren't easy and he shot them well. Palop was simply very good. It's not like Iniesta's chances, that were far easyer and he didn't even manage to shot between the sticks.

Probably because when Xavi misses a ball the idea was fine or it was just a very hard ball. Pedro tried 2 passes im thinking of, both of which he had no business even trying to do.

If you miss a through ball, then fair enough, but the idea has to be correct or its just a stupid decisions.

free
I have supported Pedro too but this is ridiculous.He was poor against Sevilla just as he has been poor almost the entire season.
An 8 for his performance.I dont think so.At best a 6.

Nope, he wasn't poor. It won't be just because a lot of people says he was poor. He did plenty of stuff well, while I'm still waiting for any of you to mention everything poor he did, apart from two failed through balls.

free_cat wrote:Nope, he wasn't poor. It won't be just because a lot of people says he was poor. He did plenty of stuff well, while I'm still waiting for any of you to mention everything poor he did, apart from two failed through balls.

He didnt create much,his touch was poor as usual,passing was wayward and missed his chances which is his USP.
He really really needs to step up or else he will lose his place.

free_cat wrote:
I think you guys are still some weeks ago when judging Pedro. He was very good yesterday, very good. It's not true he lost many balls, you just have to check the stats of the game. He was verya active, fast, quick, did a lot of great one twos. His game was great, he only missed a goal. His pass to Alexis towards the end of the game was incredible, the one on one he managed to get from a Valdes shot, fghting vs. two Sevilla defenders, a good shot after dribiling... definitely a very good game, but off course, if he doesn't score everyone will say he was awfull.

No need to take offense mate. dani has balanced it all out very well. I also gave him credit for his hard work which you have mentioned in terms of runs made. Also I didn't watch the match that intently and may have missed a few of the moments you mentioned. Above all I mentioned that I completely appreciate what he has done during the last two seasons. So it's not like I am on a vendetta to bring him down. That his level is not what it used to be is undeniable. All I am trying to do is analyze and find the causes of it if possible.

Anyway I made a lot of other points. Shall we instead discuss how worried are we by our team's defense and the forward line barring Messi of course?

alexjanosik wrote:

free_cat wrote:Nope, he wasn't poor. It won't be just because a lot of people says he was poor. He did plenty of stuff well, while I'm still waiting for any of you to mention everything poor he did, apart from two failed through balls.

He didnt create much,his touch was poor as usual,passing was wayward and missed his chances which is his USP.
He really really needs to step up or else he will lose his place.

Nope, he lost very few balls, and did a lot of nice one-twos, hence his touch couldn't be poor. Wished I could fint the games statistics to back up that he lost few balls, but I'm sure of it. He missed two difficult chances, one of which he created from nowhere, because his balls are bigger than those of a Diplodocus. Not to mention the incredible pass to Alexis and some nice plays in which he dribled.

Iniesta missed two far easier chanbes and all I see is praise. He had a good game, I agree, but aside from a few touches of brilliance, he contributed the same as Pedro or Cesc.

There is far more to Pedro's game than scoring. The amount of sprinting he does while defending to put opposition players in pressure is second to none in Barcelona - think of how Madrid used di María to unsettle Barcelona defenders into giving the ball away. Also Pedro makes a lot of darting runs when attacking and is good at keeping possession. He's found it difficult to score recently, but goals are like ketchup, they don't come for a while but once they come, they come in numbers (that's what RVN said to a young Pipita).

free_cat wrote:
Iniesta missed two far easier chanbes and all I see is praise. He had a good game, I agree, but aside from a few touches of brilliance, he contributed the same as Pedro or Cesc.

You forget he had an assist as well. I can recall only one missed chance and it didn't seem that easy but like I said before I may have missed something. Besides people will point out a forward more for missing chances than they will point out a midfielder not known for scoring goals which I find understandable.

danyjr wrote:There is far more to Pedro's game than scoring. The amount of sprinting he does while defending to put opposition players in pressure is second to none in Barcelona - think of how Madrid used di María to unsettle Barcelona defenders into giving the ball away. Also Pedro makes a lot of darting runs when attacking and is good at keeping possession. He's found it difficult to score recently, but goals are like ketchup, they don't come for a while but once they come, they come in numbers (that's what RVN said to a young Pipita).

Pep said something similar today. Pedro runs equivalent to three players and thus makes it easier for others around him to play their game. Pep also said that injuries are the main reason he hasn't recovered his level.

messixaviesta wrote:

free_cat wrote:
Iniesta missed two far easier chanbes and all I see is praise. He had a good game, I agree, but aside from a few touches of brilliance, he contributed the same as Pedro or Cesc.

You forget he had an assist as well. I can recall only one missed chance and it didn't seem that easy but like I said before I may have missed something. Besides people will point out a forward more for missing chances than they will point out a midfielder not known for scoring goals which I find understandable.

I don't forget that. The statistics will show that Iniesta gave an assist, but let's be serious that wasn't an assist. It was a good link up with Messi, who then "only" had to nutmeg a defender and do one of the most difficult lobs I've seen recently to score.

free_cat wrote:
I don't forget that. The statistics will show that Iniesta gave an assist, but let's be serious that wasn't an assist. It was a good link up with Messi, who then "only" had to nutmeg a defender and do one of the most difficult lobs I've seen recently to score.

Fine if you don't want to call it an assist. You said that Iniesta did not contribute anything much in the game. So if a player does not contribute anything to the goals scored, how do you measure his contribution in the game?

messixaviesta wrote:

free_cat wrote:
I don't forget that. The statistics will show that Iniesta gave an assist, but let's be serious that wasn't an assist. It was a good link up with Messi, who then "only" had to nutmeg a defender and do one of the most difficult lobs I've seen recently to score.

Fine if you don't want to call it an assist. You said that Iniesta did not contribute anything much in the game.

free_cat wrote:Iniesta had a good game, I agree, but aside from a few touches of brilliance, he contributed the same as Pedro or Cesc.

contribute the same as Pedro or Cesc =/= not contribute. Iniesta had a very good game.

free_cat wrote:
contribute the same as Pedro or Cesc =/= not contribute. Iniesta had a very good game.

ok

According to whoscored, Pedro was dispossed once, had 3 turnovers, 4 interceptions (top of the team being a forward!), 2 key passes (second best), 1 accurate through ball, 85% of passing accuracy - within the mean of the team - and 4 shots, 3 of them on target. He also had two successfull dribles that don't appear counted, don't know why.

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/523311/LiveStatistics/Spain-La-Liga-2011-2012-Sevilla-Barcelona

If you add dispossessions + turnovers he had 4 of them, the same as Alves, Fabregas and one more than Messi, none of them got the stick for losing balls (and in the case of Alves, lost balls are more worrying cause he is a defender, if he loses them in the back).So perhaps he lost the ball a couple of times too much, but definitely saying that he lost tons of balls is completely false.

Great game from Pedro.

whats the difference between dispossed and a turnover?

Is a turnover only a pass and dispossed meaning losing it while dribbling?

The Franchise wrote:whats the difference between dispossed and a turnover?

Is a turnover only a pass and dispossed meaning losing it while dribbling?

I have absolutely no idea what's the difference.

What I'm sure, is that turnovers/disposses doesn't include failed passes, or all players would have much more of them (even Xavi missed 7 passes vs. Sevilla).

OK, even more confused now lol


But yeah, more importantly. I would like to mantain that I didnt think Pedro had a bad game, nor a great one. I thought he did decent. If he would have scored, I think alot of people would of said something like "that was a vintage Pedro performance".

I was disappointed with his choice of pass on those two occasions though, they were not very smart plays.

The Franchise wrote:OK, even more confused now lol


But yeah, more importantly. I would like to mantain that I didnt think Pedro had a bad game, nor a great one. I thought he did decent. If he would have scored, I think alot of people would of said something like "that was a vintage Pedro performance".

I was disappointed with his choice of pass on those two occasions though, they were not very smart plays.

That's what I'm saying. Had he scored, it would have been a perfect Pedro performance. What you expect from him at his top level. And he didn't score because Palop was great, not because he missed his chances.

free_cat wrote:According to whoscored, Pedro was dispossed once, had 3 turnovers, 4 interceptions (top of the team being a forward!), 2 key passes (second best), 1 accurate through ball, 85% of passing accuracy - within the mean of the team - and 4 shots, 3 of them on target. He also had two successfull dribles that don't appear counted, don't know why.

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/523311/LiveStatistics/Spain-La-Liga-2011-2012-Sevilla-Barcelona

If you add dispossessions + turnovers he had 4 of them, the same as Alves, Fabregas and one more than Messi, none of them got the stick for losing balls (and in the case of Alves, lost balls are more worrying cause he is a defender, if he loses them in the back).So perhaps he lost the ball a couple of times too much, but definitely saying that he lost tons of balls is completely false.

Great game from Pedro.

Why do you underrate Alves so much?
You mention that he lost more balls than Pedro.
Maybe its because he actually tries to make something with it.He tries to dribble,tries outrageous 1-2's,tries outrageous passes.Some of his combination play with Messi was just sublime.So were his dribbles and passes.None of which can be said for Pedro.
The 2 assists for Messi.Not the first time he has made just brilliant passes.
I havent seen any other FB ever with Alves passing ability.
So comparing Pedro to Alves and saying that Alves lost more balls is not fair on Alves.