Urban, Rodgers isn't really to blame here. Sahin wasn't constantly played in an advanced position. He played there like 3 times and that's when he scored his three goals for us. He's been average at best at CM. Did exactly what your making fun of Allen for, made those stupid sideways passes and nothing else.

You can have him btw. He's not the type of CM we need anyways. Neither is Allen. We needed someone like Dembele, Modric, or Hernanes to play next to Lucas and Gerrard.

urbaNRoots wrote: While at Liverpool I saw him play in a more advanced position because that clown Rodgers loves his son Allen to make his sideways passes.

I would always welcome a talent as Sahin at Arsenal if Liverpool don't want him anymore.

An interesting point unfortunately marred by the fact that it's complete and utter nonsense.

First and foremost, Allen has played consistently at CDM for us this season due to Lucas's injury. As such his appearances have had no bearing on Sahin's (lack of) gametime.

Secondly, Sahin has only played two, or at most three, matches in the most advanced midfield role and those were the games where he actually made an impact.

Third, when Sahin HAS been played in the deeper CM role he's generally been ineffectual for exactly the reason you're bashing Allen... he primarily limited himself to little movement and only side-to-side passes, with his few longer passes generally going astray.

I do not personally agree with McAgger's assessment (I think if Gerrard is to play we DO need someone who will consistently keep play moving with simple passes; Gerrard fills the dynamic role) and I do believe Sahin could have a very effective role in our side. So far this season, however, he's not done anything to suggest he deserves to start in that role over our other midfield options...

Also: Dembele, Modric and Hernanes are three VERY different midfielders.

RedOranje wrote:Also: Dembele, Modric and Hernanes are three VERY different midfielders.

Those were just examples, what I was getting at is that we need an agile midfielder that can beat his man.

I would bench Allen for a game or two now that Lucas is back.
Allen has looked, to me, rather average lately and I think starting Sahin or Henderson would be just good rotation at this point.

Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:

RedOranje wrote:Also: Dembele, Modric and Hernanes are three VERY different midfielders.

Those were just examples, what I was getting at is that we need an agile midfielder that can beat his man.

You mean like Shelvey and Suso?

Art Morte wrote:I would bench Allen for a game or two now that Lucas is back.
Allen has looked, to me, rather average lately and I think starting Sahin or Henderson would be just good rotation at this point.

If there is anything that I took from yesterday's performance, it is a renewed hope for Allen's form and influence on matches. He got forward, he played incisive balls, and he did A LOT of running. He finally started to look like the player we had for the first few matches of the season.

People have criticized Allen (and not without merit) for his play in the past few weeks. What’s asinine the criticism focuses on his style of play at CDM. Many people don't realize that it's precisely what was being asked of him. He was asked to win possession, switch play from side to side, and act as an outlet for the team to retain possession if the more advanced players find themselves running down blind alleys. Granted, his form has been poor recently, and he hasn’t performed the duties at the level we had hoped, but it’s not really the role we bought him for. He’s simply been filling in for Lucas. Now that Lucas is back, Allen looked like a player unchained.

As many of you in this thread know, I’ve been one of the more critical voices of Sahin in the Liverpool section. It’s not that I don’t rate him, or that I simply dislike his play. I just don’t think he’s exerted the influence on the midfield that we would have hoped. I think it’s quite simply that he has been asked to play a very different role(s) from the one he played at Dortmund and when he occasionally played at Madrid.

While it is rather clichéd to say so as a Liverpool fan, Sahin is the next Xabi Alonso, if I have ever seen one. The problem is that our system doesn’t necessarily require a “Xabi Alonso” type of player. The incisive long-ball, while effective at times, is not a staple of the system. Instead, the “Xavi” style of midfielder, consisting of quick combinations and short passing is the bread and butter of Rodgers’ incarnation of tiki-taka. That is what we bought Joe Allen for… So, where does he fit in? It would seem that we have established that Lucas will anchor. Allen seems to have established himself as the more restrained midfielder, playing ahead of the CDM, but not necessarily looking to get in the box on every possession. So, is Sahin the hard-charging midfielder to get in the box, score goals, and play that killer pass to Suarez and company? He has performed this role at Norwich, in the League Cup against West Brom, and away at Young Boys. However, he has yet to convince in this role week-in week-out.

I would love to see Sahin find form and adjust to this role, making it his own. I believe it’s there for the taking. At the moment, Gerrard looks to be losing a step and prone to forfeiting possession; Henderson, while improving, does not yet look confident, consistent, or quality enough for the spot in the first IX; and Shelvey has been a little inconsistent of late (and fluffed some very, VERY good chances in front of goal. The opportunity is there, but Sahin has to take his chances to impress. To quote Rip Torn in is seminal role as Patches in Dodgeball, he needs to “grab it by its haunches and hump it into submission.”

i've never seen him play in germany, and i've only seen him play for real and liverpool but from what i've seen he looks like a player who is very simple and plays things very safely and doesn't excel in any particular aspect. if that is the type of player he is he made a huge mistake choosing madrid to join, he needed to join a side who need a first team player like him

donttreadonred wrote:

Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:

RedOranje wrote:Also: Dembele, Modric and Hernanes are three VERY different midfielders.

Those were just examples, what I was getting at is that we need an agile midfielder that can beat his man.

You mean like Shelvey and Suso?

Suso maybe, but Shelvey is more dynamic than agile, so no I don't mean Shelvey.

andiii wrote:i've never seen him play in germany, and i've only seen him play for real and liverpool but from what i've seen he looks like a player who is very simple and plays things very safely and doesn't excel in any particular aspect. if that is the type of player he is he made a huge mistake choosing madrid to join, he needed to join a side who need a first team player like him

Well, not watching him in Germany is your loss. He had been killing it for 3 seasons straight there, made his debut very young, where he did well, and Dortmund used him perfectly, as what he is: a deep-lying playmaker that likes to get forward and add a shot on goal here and there.

I don't know how Real and Pool managed to ruin him, maybe it was the injury, and he never got back from it, because he just lacks match practice nowadays, what the hell do I know.

But the kid was considered to be at least as good as Schweinsteiger, and that was in the 2010 season, where Schweinsteiger was thought by many to make the Ballon d'Or shortlist, not the shitty 2011/12 season where he was injured all the time.

Sahin was on the way to being world class, Turkeys best player in decades. Then he got injured, then he got benched, and now he sucks. I don't know why and how, but he wasn't mediocre, playing it safe or anything, for Dortmund he was the shit. He drove their game more than Götze or Kagawa.
Not their most important player, maybe, because I think Dortmunds real title makers are Bender and Hummels, but their driving force in attack. In their first title year.

Maybe we Bundesliga fans (me included) overrated him, I'm puzzled about his development myself.

Maybe Dortmund's system made him shine, everyone ran and tackled for him so he didn't have to.
The season before he went to Real he was magnificent. He may need someone who totally trusts him like Klopp in Dortmund or Van Marweijk in Rotterdam. I don't know.

when is he coming back from injury, and is he going to get back into the starting 11 when he comes back?

Rodgers is an idiot

Terrible this season and last, what a shame..... I had high hopes for him, he really should not have joined Madrid.

can his poor play still be blame on real madrid? when are people going to realize he needs to take personal responsibility for how he has played.

maybe it was just klopps system and management that got the best out of him?

He barely played at Real Madrid and when he did he played alright. He just needs to play in the '2' in a 4-2-3-1 as a playmaker, with a DM next to him.

Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:Rodgers is an idiot

Except that everyone believed Sahin should be dropped when he did play...

vanDEEZ wrote:can his poor play still be blame on real madrid? when are people going to realize he needs to take personal responsibility for how he has played.

maybe it was just klopps system and management that got the best out of him?

I've been thinking this since he couldn't get time at Madrid. I mean if he's really that good he'd at least get some sort of minutes, same with at Liverpool. If he's dropped off that's real sad, he was great to watch with Dortmund.

RedOranje wrote:

Messiah "Aggerswagger" wrote:Rodgers is an idiot

Except that everyone believed Sahin should be dropped when he did play...

I was one of those people

But the way Rodgers has handled Sahin, still makes him an idiot.

Such high hopes for him...


I wonder if it things would be different had he gone to Arsenal?

But no minutes at even Liverpool...probably wouldn't have made a difference

So, by extension, those that suggested he do exactly what he did are also idiots, right?

RedOranje wrote:So, by extension, those that suggested he do exactly what he did are also idiots, right?

Pssst.. Red...
Check the "nickname change thread" for me




OT.

For those that saw him play for Liverpool this far... Opinions?

I don't do nickname changes.

RedOranje wrote:I don't do nickname changes.

Fair enough

RedOranje wrote:So, by extension, those that suggested he do exactly what he did are also idiots, right?

No we suggested dropping him instead of seeing him suffer out of position. If Rodgers actually uses him in the right position, no one will be suggesting that. That's what makes Rodgers an idiot, because most of us would actually utilize Sahin to his strengths instead of ostracizing him.

Thing is that Sahin plays the exact same position as Gerrard. He's absolutely not a AM. If anything, he could play a defensive midfield or even fullback role (he did very well at Real Madrid at fullback twice).

Completely miscast at Liverpool. They have no incentive to adapt to his game because he's on loan with no buyout option.

If Mou leaves, i would have him back at Madrid with open arms.

What annoys me about this Sahin situation is that we are probably paying a lot of wages on him while he apparently has dropped to a very fringe status in the manager's eyes.