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Is Bastian the best midfielder in the world?
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VivaStPauli
Dnmac4
juventus101
Le Samourai
izzy
The Messiah
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The Franchise
vivabarca38
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McLewis
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jibers
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EarlyPrototype
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Re: Is Bastian the best midfielder in the world?
jibers wrote:EarlyPrototype wrote:Xabi doesn't hoof, he levitates.
Btw Sushi you shouldn't have taken the not proven seriously.
Alonso is a hoofer, he looks out of his depth when he plays for Spain ffs
I'm assuming you're speaking of friendlies.
Le Samourai- World Class Contributor
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Re: Is Bastian the best midfielder in the world?
I believe he is without a doubt the best midfielder in the world. Definitely better than Xavi and Iniesta in my opinion.
juventus101- First Team
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Re: Is Bastian the best midfielder in the world?
At some point if you are asking who is the best midfielder and you are comparing Xavi and Bastian then I think you have to look at titles won.
IMO Bayern's team could be just as dominant in the BL as Barca is in La Liga, I mean they have the best collection of players in the BL hands down yet every couple years they don't win it and lose to a team that is in effect worse then them.
You have to give it up to Xavi for the consistency over the last couple of years it just seperates him from any other midfielder and he is playing at a very high level still.
I mean look what he has done for Spain and Barca in the last 5 years, it's something that in my mind will never be done again winning back to back Euro and World Cup and add that to 4 la liga's and 3 Champions League titles. Not to mention Spain tied the consecutive wins record in a row as well.
I mean it's close between the two,, I just don't see how you can ignore the trophies as something that puts Xavi over the top and the consistency over the years on a club and national level.
I mean if your honest with yourself there is really no argument to make that Bastian is better then Xavi. There are no hard facts all you can really say is, "well I like him better".
IMO Bayern's team could be just as dominant in the BL as Barca is in La Liga, I mean they have the best collection of players in the BL hands down yet every couple years they don't win it and lose to a team that is in effect worse then them.
You have to give it up to Xavi for the consistency over the last couple of years it just seperates him from any other midfielder and he is playing at a very high level still.
I mean look what he has done for Spain and Barca in the last 5 years, it's something that in my mind will never be done again winning back to back Euro and World Cup and add that to 4 la liga's and 3 Champions League titles. Not to mention Spain tied the consecutive wins record in a row as well.
I mean it's close between the two,, I just don't see how you can ignore the trophies as something that puts Xavi over the top and the consistency over the years on a club and national level.
I mean if your honest with yourself there is really no argument to make that Bastian is better then Xavi. There are no hard facts all you can really say is, "well I like him better".
Dnmac4- First Team
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Re: Is Bastian the best midfielder in the world?
Well, or you might say that there are better coaches in the BL (albeit very underrated ones) who manage to figure out tactics that can nullify even a "better on paper" team? Moreover, BL teams usually aren't that bad as there it quite a lot of quality (especially GK-wise ) that again is very often underrated by people who mainly watch their leagues and probably only know the BL from hearsay.dnmac4 wrote:IMO Bayern's team could be just as dominant in the BL as Barca is in La Liga, I mean they have the best collection of players in the BL hands down yet every couple years they don't win it and lose to a team that is in effect worse then them.
This is a dangerous thing to use as yardstick. In that case you might argue that for instance neither Messi nor Ronaldo can become the very top unless they win for example a world cup with their NTs. The talent and performance of a player should not be measured due to the performance of the 10 others in their team. And moreover, for players in a successful club or NT, you elevate them due to the performance of the players around them. If you pick the worst player of, say. Barcelona, could you say he is the best on his position, just because his team won the trophies for him?dnmac4 wrote:I mean it's close between the two,, I just don't see how you can ignore the trophies as something that puts Xavi over the top and the consistency over the years on a club and national level.
BTW, you might have noticed that nothing in my argument says Schweinsteiger or Xavi is the better of the two, because I find these comparisons at such a level not really worthwhile. I just wanted to point out that the reasoning along these lines might not be the best. ^^
rwo power- Super Moderator
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Re: Is Bastian the best midfielder in the world?
He's the most complete midfielder still playing, that's for sure, I really don't like calling someone the "best player" though, so I won't do that.
VivaStPauli- Fan Favorite
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Re: Is Bastian the best midfielder in the world?
I think he is one of the best midfielders in the world if not the best imo
DRK- First Team
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Re: Is Bastian the best midfielder in the world?
rwo power wrote:Well, or you might say that there are better coaches in the BL (albeit very underrated ones) who manage to figure out tactics that can nullify even a "better on paper" team? Moreover, BL teams usually aren't that bad as there it quite a lot of quality (especially GK-wise ) that again is very often underrated by people who mainly watch their leagues and probably only know the BL from hearsay.dnmac4 wrote:IMO Bayern's team could be just as dominant in the BL as Barca is in La Liga, I mean they have the best collection of players in the BL hands down yet every couple years they don't win it and lose to a team that is in effect worse then them.This is a dangerous thing to use as yardstick. In that case you might argue that for instance neither Messi nor Ronaldo can become the very top unless they win for example a world cup with their NTs. The talent and performance of a player should not be measured due to the performance of the 10 others in their team. And moreover, for players in a successful club or NT, you elevate them due to the performance of the players around them. If you pick the worst player of, say. Barcelona, could you say he is the best on his position, just because his team won the trophies for him?dnmac4 wrote:I mean it's close between the two,, I just don't see how you can ignore the trophies as something that puts Xavi over the top and the consistency over the years on a club and national level.
BTW, you might have noticed that nothing in my argument says Schweinsteiger or Xavi is the better of the two, because I find these comparisons at such a level not really worthwhile. I just wanted to point out that the reasoning along these lines might not be the best. ^^
Don't get me wrong I like Bastian and I respect the BL and the German national team.
But if you have to pick between the two then you just can't ignore the titles. I think most people think they are pretty even skill wise so if that's the case then the titles put Xavi over the top because he basically carries his dominance in 3 different leagues. The CL, National team, and LA Liga. His consistency is just remarkable and like I said before I Don't think you will ever see anything like what he's accomplished in the last 5 years again.
And if Bastian was really good on a mediocre team or something like that then titles wouldn't matter BUT he's not. Bayern have the best collection of talent in the BL every year, it's really obvious yet every couple of years they decieve you and lose. The German NAtional team is stacked as well and they go very far in every tournament but not as far as Spain.
There stature in there club and national teams are very similar as Bayern is comparable to Barca in the BL, in fact they have probably been more dominant over the long haul and Germany has been better then Spain over the long haul and both are powers in Europe.
It's actually a very fair comparison so if you are breaking the tie so to say the titles put Xavi over the top, they have to as his run has been historic. Not to mention most people on here give him the credit for Messi's greatness as well.
Dnmac4- First Team
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Re: Is Bastian the best midfielder in the world?
What a useless comparison. They are completely different players. Who gives Xavi credit for Messis greatness?
jibers- World Class Contributor
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Re: Is Bastian the best midfielder in the world?
dnmac4 wrote:Don't get me wrong I like Bastian and I respect the BL and the German national team.
But if you have to pick between the two then you just can't ignore the titles. I think most people think they are pretty even skill wise so if that's the case then the titles put Xavi over the top because he basically carries his dominance in 3 different leagues. The CL, National team, and LA Liga.
Well, Xavi still plays with Barca in two of those leagues and with Spain at the NT level, where Germany has just gotten good again about nowish - we were arguably just overachieving until 2010, which was the first time in quite a while we entered a major tournament with a proper squad.
His consistency is just remarkable and like I said before I Don't think you will ever see anything like what he's accomplished in the last 5 years again.
And if Bastian was really good on a mediocre team or something like that then titles wouldn't matter BUT he's not. Bayern have the best collection of talent in the BL every year, it's really obvious yet every couple of years they decieve you and lose. The German NAtional team is stacked as well and they go very far in every tournament but not as far as Spain.
Piggy is younger than Xavi though, so I can honestly see him performing consistently at top level for another 6 to 7, maybe 8, years. (Still not calling Bastian better btw, I just happen to agree with rwo that titles aren't a good measure of a single player's worth)
And again, with the NT level - Spain have just been blessed with a better squad for the past couple of years. It's only in 2010 that we started to really catch up, with the inclusion of Özil and Müller, and only now in 2012 are we arguably starting to get equal. If we don't win a major trophy now or in 2014, we'll have seriously failed.
BTW regarding Bayern not winning the league - while being stacked with great players, Bayern consistently fire their coaches, even the good ones, and also sometimes hire real nimrods. I just don't think it comes down to single players. And whenever Bayern have sucked in the last year, Schweinsteiger was actually not playing, as far as I remember.
There stature in there club and national teams are very similar as Bayern is comparable to Barca in the BL, in fact they have probably been more dominant over the long haul and Germany has been better then Spain over the long haul and both are powers in Europe.
It's actually a very fair comparison so if you are breaking the tie so to say the titles put Xavi over the top, they have to as his run has been historic. Not to mention most people on here give him the credit for Messi's greatness as well.
I'll give you this one, though: If we assume that they really are 100% equal, then why not use titles as a tie-breaker. But I might as well use looks, or my gut feeling then. Though Piggy is remarkably ugly, so might give it to Xavi. But Schweinsteiger is taller, sooooo...
VivaStPauli- Fan Favorite
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Re: Is Bastian the best midfielder in the world?
No.
Ps. Really, people should stop doing threads with such easy and undebatable answers.
Ps. Really, people should stop doing threads with such easy and undebatable answers.
free_cat- Fan Favorite
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Re: Is Bastian the best midfielder in the world?
U need to win World Cup & Champions League & prove yourself in more than one club team to be considered the best...
that is why:
PIRLO
that is why:
PIRLO
Cotes- First Team
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Re: Is Bastian the best midfielder in the world?
Would love to see we meet Bayern in the CL, should go some way to answering this thread
BarcaLearning- Fan Favorite
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Re: Is Bastian the best midfielder in the world?
First he needs to get fit again, though. This weekend he ruptured an ankle ligament and will be out for about 4 weeks or so.BarcaLearning wrote:Would love to see we meet Bayern in the CL, should go some way to answering this thread
rwo power- Super Moderator
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