St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:
@mahonne, only two form of midfield, double pivot and the future with a tridente

i'm not sure what type of midfielder that you have in mind for each formation, is it:
double pivot: CM-CM or AMC-CM or CM-DM or AMC-DM?
tridente: DM-CM-CM or DM-CM-AMC or CM-CM-AMC or etc?
and btw, isn't thiago the same type as sahin?

isnt thiago too young to be thinking for the future formation?

lets be realistic. we have players to cover up the midfield right now.

thiago is nothing like sahin.

We lack advanced playmaker shaven, that's truly the one position we lack. for a team looking to be more dominant on the ball, an ACM is more than welcome, and a technical one

Ozil

he isnt an ACM

uhhh,

ive seen him a couple of times and i dont know whats so special about him tbh

imo canales>>>sarabia>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>thiago

With the formation we play Thiago wont be in the starting eleven though. Ozil, Sahin and Alonso midfield.

He would probably compete with Sahin if anything.

what is advanced playmaker exactly means? is it the same as AMC?
playmaker that play higher than CM but not as high as AM?
I'm confused :?:
so, currently playmaker we have:
- alonso
- ozil
- sahin
- kaka??
what are they??

alex mahone wrote:what is advanced playmaker exactly means? is it the same as AMC?
playmaker that play higher than CM but not as high as AM?
I'm confused :?:

exactly. A CM playing in a more advanced position playmaking, he goes as high as a AM, but also goes quite deep.

AMC = CAM =/= ACM

@mt, sahin plays deeper...

halamadrid2 wrote:uhhh,

ive seen him a couple of times and i dont know whats so special about him tbh

imo canales>>>sarabia>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>thiago

booyahhh canales is more of a cam though so if you are thinking of a 4231 sahin and Dm behind him in the future!!!

sarabia and jese at the wings and morata upfront!

alex mahone wrote:what is advanced playmaker exactly means? is it the same as AMC?
playmaker that play higher than CM but not as high as AM?
I'm confused :?:
so, currently playmaker we have:
- alonso
- ozil
- sahin
- kaka??
what are they??

canales will play the same role of kaka in his prime. runs the ball upfront rather than going deep.

i dont know why some people thinks and believing canales will be a acm rather than a cam.

just simply keep thiago away from madrid.

and lets support our own youth as much as possible!!!

@mahone

Ozil=modern AM, kid makes runs to beat the offside trap, he plays extremely high, and he is a playmaker.

Kaka=not a playmaker. just an attacking player with all around skills.

alonso=deep lying playmaker, not mobile on the ball.

Sahin=deep lying playmaker, more mobile than alonso better touch and dribble, but likes to stay deep as well.

see where the ACM fits in? missing link

@shaven, canales wont be anything like kaka. too slow, not great enough of a dribbler, if he doesnt develpo his playmaking skills, kids like Delofeu, Jese, Sarabia will beat him to the NT in their prime.

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:

alex mahone wrote:what is advanced playmaker exactly means? is it the same as AMC?
playmaker that play higher than CM but not as high as AM?
I'm confused :?:

exactly. A CM playing in a more advanced position playmaking, he goes as high as a AM, but also goes quite deep.

AMC = CAM =/= ACM

@mt, sahin plays deeper...

well, should it needed, can we just asked our AM to go quite deep?? or convert them into ACM?? rather than buying ACM player which basically step on to AM player's toes?? lol, we have 3 of AM (ozil, kaka, canales) last season, unless we want to get rid all of our AM

i wouldn't mind having thiago alcantara
but if I had a choice, I would rather support Canales more

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:@mahone

Ozil=modern AM, kid makes runs to beat the offside trap, he plays extremely high, and he is a playmaker.

Kaka=not a playmaker. just an attacking player with all around skills.

alonso=deep lying playmaker, not mobile on the ball.

Sahin=deep lying playmaker, more mobile than alonso better touch and dribble, but likes to stay deep as well.

see where the ACM fits in? missing link

@shaven, canales wont be anything like kaka. too slow, not great enough of a dribbler, if he doesnt develpo his playmaking skills, kids like Delofeu, Jese, Sarabia will beat him to the NT in their prime.

oh well, i thought sahin could play a bit higher than alonso, but if you mean by high is as high as AM play i don't know
i still see that's a weird reason to but an ACM
i mean, isn't that problem could be solved either by asking the deep lying playmaker to play higher or the AM to play deeper??
and you obviously don't need deep lying playmaker, AM, and ACM at the same time, that's why i don't see much points by collecting them all

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:@mahone

Ozil=modern AM, kid makes runs to beat the offside trap, he plays extremely high, and he is a playmaker.

Kaka=not a playmaker. just an attacking player with all around skills.

alonso=deep lying playmaker, not mobile on the ball.

Sahin=deep lying playmaker, more mobile than alonso better touch and dribble, but likes to stay deep as well.

see where the ACM fits in? missing link

@shaven, canales wont be anything like kaka. too slow, not great enough of a dribbler, if he doesnt develpo his playmaking skills, kids like Delofeu, Jese, Sarabia will beat him to the NT in their prime.

you're so pessimist nick!

Ozil can become an ACM.

LOOOOL

Great troll

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:@mahone

Ozil=modern AM, kid makes runs to beat the offside trap, he plays extremely high, and he is a playmaker.

Kaka=not a playmaker. just an attacking player with all around skills.

alonso=deep lying playmaker, not mobile on the ball.

Sahin=deep lying playmaker, more mobile than alonso better touch and dribble, but likes to stay deep as well.

see where the ACM fits in? missing link

@shaven, canales wont be anything like kaka. too slow, not great enough of a dribbler, if he doesnt develpo his playmaking skills, kids like Delofeu, Jese, Sarabia will beat him to the NT in their prime.

got it, thanks for the explanation btw
but still, if sahin can play higher and ozil can play deeper, i don't see the need of main role ACM, unless only for back up role

alex mahone wrote:
oh well, i thought sahin could play a bit higher than alonso, but if you mean by high is as high as AM play i don't know
i still see that's a weird reason to but an ACM
i mean, isn't that problem could be solved either by asking the deep lying playmaker to play higher or the AM to play deeper??
and you obviously don't need deep lying playmaker, AM, and ACM at the same time, that's why i don't see much points by collecting them all

He can go higher than Alonso surely, but for him to play a very advanced position he will have to develop his technique a bit more. in his youth he was playing a bit higher and his touch was more akin to zidane's, he has changed a bit since then.

To me, it's not as simple to ask someone to move up and down. Can look seemless for some, but for example you cant ask Alonso to play AM. Ozil however could learn his trade as ACM, but his tendencies suggest otherwise, and he never really played so deep.

My ambition for real madrid is to progressively turn to a 433, i hope it happens, but we already play a 433, and given the state of things, it's gonna be fairly flat, not to my liking.

@shaven, lol, im not being pessimistic, im just calling it the way i see it. If the state of the current spanish NT is anything to rely upon for the future, and we have to look at it since they apply it to the youth team already, then Canales better straps up and develop himself some good technique, and on the ball skills. i dont wanna make it sound like he has no chance but, forwards in that team, play 3 at the time and they are excellent dribbler. midfielders are almost all asked to be playmakers, and to be rather comfortable playing deep. Ofc if Canales turns into valeron 2.0 there wont be muc debate, but from my point of view, he better develop his playmaking skills fast, that's why i think Villarreal would be perfect for him.

Nick - I agree with most of what you have said about Thiago. But he won't be coming here. Barcelona have a dilemma now. They need a replacement for Xavi on board now as his injuries are starting to add up. Ideally they want this replacement as a reserve for next couple of years (when Xavi is likely to retire or become a part time late game sub). Cesc was viewed as this replacement (but wouldn't be happy on bench). At beginning of year Pep wasn't sold on Thiago, but by end of year he didn't hesitate to use him in key situations. Part of the passive stance for Cesc this year is this dilemma (Thiago or Cesc). Thiago has earned a full time liga role for next year. If Barcelona sign Cesc they will have to let him go. No way they can do that now with the way he has developed and is showing with U21s. I say they put off Cesc for another year and then begin to develop a formation that has Cesc, Iniesta and Thiago / Xavi in midfield (plus of course Busquets). i.e. I think they will go with just 2 up front (or have Iniesta play forward).

With regards to Thiago, Canales comparison,I feel they are closer than you think. Canales obviously needs to develop, but their base talent is similar. Thiago is a year older (actually closer to 2). Keep in mind this U21 team is mostly 22 and 23 years old now (age limit is set when qualifying begins). Thiago is one of the youngest on this team. Canales was on it briefly last year (he has played mostly with U19 and was called up a few times with this team. He looked very good. Was instrumental in a free kick goal (a similar repeat to free kick goal with U19. In the U19, he was the kicker (lobbed over wall) and in U21, he was the receiver and goal scorer.

If you look at our younger players, we are developing (Morata up front, Canales, Sarabia, Jesse in midfield and Carvajal in defense). Let's just hope we give them the opportunities (starting with Morata this year as 3rd striker).

I honestly think we saw ozil played so high most of the time are because there's where he's plotted most of the time by mourinho, because in certain games he did play deeper than usual (ex: barcelona home)

But yeah, maybe I'm not quite right when assuming that it's only need a simple order from mou to ask someone play deeper or higher

However i think for someone as young as canales, ozil, sahin, it's not too late to re-shape them to whatever we need if we want to keep them for the future, adding more young players that step on to their toes wouldn't help them, unless we want to replace them with players that are better fit with our formation of course

to me, when you can put your hands on a player that is natural in a position and show supreme talent at it, you dont hesitate.

Boo.
Are we really posting a topic on one of barca's youth?