Who would have won Ballon d'Or's if everyone were eligible?

by Harmonica Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:20 am

Evaluation was made by choosing winner, and comparing a non European player to it. Years 91-11 were simplified and calculated from results in the current Fifa Ballon d'Or format. This is obviously no definitive solution, but merely an opinion, with some degree of logical thinking.

So I started comparing from WC years. First name column is the winner, and second one suggestion, on the bold is who I think would have won it, or who won it.

Here are some thoughts of the years:

1958 Didi would have won it being Brazil's best player, Pele although would have been close second.
1962 Garrincha would have won it being clearly Brazil's best player.
1966 Charlton won it being England's best player.
1970 Pele would have won it being clearly Brazil's best player.
1974 Cruyff won it ahead of Beckenbauer by individualistic efforts.
1978 Kempes would have won it being clearly Argentina's best player. One of the strangest years, Keegan won it by winning nothing.
1982 Rossi won it being Italy's best player.
1986 Maradona would have won it by being clearly Argentina's best player.
1990 Matthäus won it being W.Germany's best player, before Schillaci's individualistic efforts.
1994 Romario would have won it being Brazil's best player, was FWPOTY.

1956 Stanley Matthews, legend in its time, won the award being 41 years old. Although won nothing in the season, probably nothing would have stopped him winning the inaugural award.
1957 Di Stefano won the award winning European Cup, league and one minor tournament, scored 43 goals in 43 matches.
1959 Di Stefano won it by winning European Cup. Pele won minor tournament and almost all his 53/43 goals were in state champs.
1960 Suarez won it by winning League and one minor tournament.
1961 Sivori won it by winning league and scoring 28 goals in 29 matches. Pele scored 62 goals in 38 matches but most of those were in state champs. Would give edge sivori here.
1963 This is interesting year, it's the only time goalie has won the Ballon d'Or. Lev Yashin won the league, but he most likely won this award with one performance which shaked the world. The FA Centenary match England - Rest of the World. Made several unbelievable saves and got nickname, the black spider. Pele however did have an unbelievable year, won Copa Libertadores, and 3 minor cups, Roca Cup with Brazil and scored 51 goals in 36 games. The fact that Garrincha would have won -62, I think Pele would have edged Yashin here.
1964 Law scored 46 goals in 41 matches in English first division, although Pele scored 44 in 31 matches and won state and two minor cups, most of his goals were in inferior state championship. I think Law would have edged Pele here.
1965 Eusebio won league and minor tournament, was second in European Cup being also top scorer, scored 37 goals in 29 matches, 9 in EC. Pele won state and 3 minor tournaments, was third on Copa Libertadores being also top scorer, scored 64 goals in 48 matches, 8 in Liberadores, and most of them in state championship. This is extremely hard call, but IMO would give edge here Pele because I got him second last year. He probably would have won 2/3 in this time perioid.
1967 Albert won it by winning league and scoring 28 goals in 27 games. Pele would have probably been second by winning state championship and scoring 26 goals in 32 matches. There was no stars in 67 Copa America.
1968 Best won it by winning European Cup.
1969 Rivera won it by winning European Cup and one minor tournament.
1971 Cruyff won it by winning European Cup.
1972 Beckenbauer won it by winning Euro's and league.
1973 Cruyff won it by winning European Cup, League and one minor tournament.
1975 Blokhin won it by winning league and minor cup, European Cup was won by all european Bayern Munich. No stars in Copa America.
1976 Beckenbauer won it by winning European cup and being 2. in Euros.
1977 Simonsen won it by winning league, European cup was won by all european Liverpool.
1979 Keegan won it by winning league, the fact that Copa America didn't have any star performers, and European Cup was won by all European Nottingham, can't see any other candidates.
1980 Rummennigge won it by winning Euro and being best player, also won league.
1981 Rummennigge won it by winning league, possible after effect from Euro. European Cup was won by all european Liverpool.
1983 This one is though, Platini only won national cup, and was runner-up in European Cup. EC winning team was also all European so there is no possibility there. I can think only two options, Aguilera who won Copa America for Uruguay being top scorer and league, and Maradona who won 3x minor cups. IMO Aguilera would have had the best shout.
1984 Platini won it by winning Euro and being clearly the best player, also won league and 2 minor cups.
1985 Platini won it by winning European cup and being top scorer.
1987 I think because Gullit won it by winning only Dutch league, Maradona would have won it after the success of WC, and lifting Napoli to first ever Serie-A win, and also Copa Italia win.
1988 Van Basten won it by winning Euro and being top scorer/player, won also league and 1 minor cup.
1989 Van Basten won it by winning European Cup and being top scorer, also won 2 minor cups.

Here is 1991-2009 changed to Fifa Ballon d'Or format:

Source:
http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/europa-poy.html
http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/fifa-awards.html#world

Ronaldo, Zidane and Ronaldinho would all have won one more, and 2001 would have gone interestingly for Beckham.

by paperbackwriter Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:38 am

You have to remember that during Pelés era, the Brazilian league was probably the best in the world. And if the award never was euro-centric from the beginning there wouldn't be any euro favorism.

So years when Pelé would have won it, or atleast been in the top 3:

1958: I'd say Pelé. Brazils top scorer of the tournament, scored the only goal in the quarter final. Scored a hattrick in the semifinal and then he scored 2 goals in the final. He also scored 66 goals in 46 games for Santos.

1959: Di Stefano had an immense year and Pelé would probably not take it even thou he was Paulista and Copa Libertadores top scorer with a total of 53 goals in 43 games. Clear top 3 for Pelé thou.

1960: Suarez won it without any notable team trophy (neither Euros nor European cup). He scored 14 goals in 35 games for Barca. Meanwhile in Brazil Pele won the Paulista and was paulista top scorer. 33 goals in 33 games. Could/Should probably have won it. Atleast top 3.

1961: Sovori had a good year. Won Serie A and had 28 goals in 29 games. But Pelé won Taca Brsil, the Paulista and was Paulista top scorer with 47 goals in 26 games. A grand total of 62 goals in 38 official games. Pelé would probably have won it.

1962: Garrincha would probably have won it being Brazils best player of the WC. But Pelé had a much better club season and would have given him a run for his money. Garrincha had 10 goals in 31 games. Pelé had 48 goals in 37 games, won the paulista, Taca Brasil (over Garrincha in the final) Copa Libertadores, Intercontinental cup and was paulista top scorer. Pelé would have been a clear second atleast if not the winner.

1963: Pelé had 51 goals in 36 games and was Paulista top scorer, he also won Taca Brasil, Copa Libertadores and the intercontinental cup. Would probably have won it ahead of Yashin.

1964: Denis Law had 46 goals in 41 games but won nothing with his team. Pelé had 44 goals in 31 games, was paulista top scorer and won the paulista aswell as Taca Brasil with Santos. Would most probably have won the award.

1965: Would have been a tough competition between Eusebio and Pelé. Eusebio was European cup top scorer and runner up with Benfica, he also won the Portuguese league. He scored 37 goals in 29 games. Pelé was Paulista top scorer, Copa Libertadores top scorer and won the Paulista aswell as Taca Brasil with his team. He had 64 goals in 48 games. Pelé atleast second, possibly winner.

1966-1968: Pelés "dark years", injured 66 and then was mediocre by his standard the following two years. Probably not Ballon d'Or top 3 material any of the 3 years.

1969: Rivera was the star of the European cup winner aswell as Intercontinental cup winner. Pelé was back on his shining best thou with 39 goals in 38 games. Paulista winner and paulista top scorer. He also made a comeback to Brazil helping them qualify for the WC. Possibly top 3, not winner.

1970: Pelé no doubts.

1970+ Pelé entered his twilight years with new kids on the block like Johan Cruyff entering their prime...

by paperbackwriter Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:40 am

I count 10 clear top 3 years. He'd probably have won around 5 of those.

by Harmonica Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:49 am

paperbackwriter wrote:You have to remember that during Pelés era, the Brazilian league was probably the best in the world. And if the award never was euro-centric from the beginning there wouldn't be any euro favorism.

I don't agree with this. Brazilian league started only from 1971, and before that there were 27 state championships. Pele played in Sao Paulo state championship which consist about 12 million people nowadays. It would be about same as if Barcelona and Messi played only in Catalonian league + Valencia.

I will give consideration for Copa Libertadores when considering club success, but European big leagues > Sao Paulo Championship.

Also I think it's best to limit it only at winner, because it would be too big job to make Top3 every year.

by rwo power Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:52 am

Well, IMO Müller in 1970 was spot on. Heck, 10 (in words: TEN) goals in a World Cup was no small feat, among them important goals against England and Italy.

by paperbackwriter Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:52 am

jiopsi wrote:
paperbackwriter wrote:You have to remember that during Pelés era, the Brazilian league was probably the best in the world. And if the award never was euro-centric from the beginning there wouldn't be any euro favorism.
I don't agree with this. Brazilian league started only from 1971, and before that there were 28 state championships. Pele played in Sao Paolo state championship which consist about 12 million people now days. It would be about same as if Barcelona and Messi played only in Catalonian league + Valencia.

I will give any consideration for Copa Libertadores when considering club success, but European leagues > Sao Paolo Championschip.

Well they/he still won the Taca Brasil 5 years running from 61 to 65. The only national championship. Beating Garrincha in the 62 final for example.

by paperbackwriter Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:03 am

rwo power wrote:Well, IMO Müller in 1970 was spot on. Heck, 10 (in words: TEN) goals in a World Cup was no small feat, among them important goals against England and Italy.

Pelé had the only assist against england (after some sublime control) in the group and 2 goals against Romania, getting them out of the group. And then had a goal and 2 assists in the final, winning them the WC.

He had a total of 4 goals and 5 assists and was named player of the tournament.

by Harmonica Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:05 am

rwo power wrote:Well, IMO Müller in 1970 was spot on. Heck, 10 (in words: TEN) goals in a World Cup was no small feat, among them important goals against England and Italy.

True but it's not always about goals. I think Pele is considered widely best player of the tournament, he won the golden ball, Muller bronze ball. Either did not win anything with club that season so it would have to be decided purely on WC.

by Shotta Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:06 am

2012 Ballon D'or winner Toni Kroos aka King

by rwo power Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:14 am

Well, Gerd Müller did win the European Golden Shoe with 38 goals in 1970, too. Probably that counted to the Ballon d'Or win, too.

by Harmonica Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:15 am

paperbackwriter wrote:
jiopsi wrote:
paperbackwriter wrote:You have to remember that during Pelés era, the Brazilian league was probably the best in the world. And if the award never was euro-centric from the beginning there wouldn't be any euro favorism.
I don't agree with this. Brazilian league started only from 1971, and before that there were 28 state championships. Pele played in Sao Paolo state championship which consist about 12 million people now days. It would be about same as if Barcelona and Messi played only in Catalonian league + Valencia.

I will give any consideration for Copa Libertadores when considering club success, but European leagues > Sao Paolo Championschip.

Well they/he still won the Taca Brasil 5 years running from 61 to 65. The only national championship. Beating Garrincha in the 62 final for example.

True, but they faced only two teams each year, only in 64 they faced three teams, so that's also rather minor tournament.

by Harmonica Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:22 am

rwo power wrote:Well, Gerd Müller did win the European Golden Shoe with 38 goals in 1970, too. Probably that counted to the Ballon d'Or win, too.

It's between these players for sure, but I would give slight edge to Pele. Muller won the Golden Shoe also in 1972, but Beckenbauer being defender, won the Ballon d'Or.

by rwo power Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:28 am

Well in 1972, it was pretty much between Beckenbauer, Gerd Müller and Sepp Maier. Personally, I would have preferred to see Sepp Maier win the 1972 Ballon d'Or.

by Harmonica Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:39 pm

Here is 1991-2009 changed to Fifa Ballon d'Or format:

eligible - Who would have won Ballon d'Or's if everyone were eligible? Di-MCFE

Source:
http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/europa-poy.html
http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/fifa-awards.html#world

Ronaldo, Zidane and Ronaldinho would all have won one more, and 2001 would have gone interestingly for Beckham.

by rwo power Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:51 pm

2001 should have been Kahn's, if you ask me. ^^

by Harmonica Tue Jan 17, 2012 12:57 pm

rwo power wrote:2001 should have been Kahn's, if you ask me. ^^

Those are just calculated from combined results of Ballon d'Or and FWPOTY results, based on current format.

Only Romario in 1994 is suggested because he wasn't eligible for Ballon d'Or. I don't think there is need to question these other results because they are as voted.

by stunt Tue Jan 17, 2012 4:39 pm

2010: Xavi would have won it being Spain's best player.

Do you understand my point?

by paperbackwriter Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:00 pm

stunt wrote:2010: Xavi would have won it being Spain's best player.

Do you understand my point?

I think this must stop... People were on with the same thing with Sneijder, just because a great WC performance have "overruled" club performance over a season from other players in the past. Most notably Cannavaro and Zidane in 2006 and Ronaldo in 2002. It doesn't mean being somewhat successful during the World Cup automatically should win it for you.

No player in 2010 was as excellent as Cannavaro, Zidane and Ronaldo were in respective world cup. Not even close. Not Xavi and not Sneijder.

by Ganso Tue Jan 17, 2012 5:16 pm

Pele would have won in 62 and in 70 for sure.in 58 he would have won it or been in second place

by Harmonica Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:49 am

stunt wrote:2010: Xavi would have won it being Spain's best player.

Do you understand my point?

I don't agree, Xavi wasn't clearly Spain's best player, Villa won Bronze ball of WC and him, Xavi and Iniesta were part of a great team. You can't lift anybody of them really on top.

Messi however was Barcelona's and Argentina's best player.

by Harmonica Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:57 am

Ganso wrote:Pele would have won in 62 and in 70 for sure.in 58 he would have won it or been in second place

I don't agree with the -62. He won Libertadores, Garrincha was in Semi-Final, they both won their state championships and some minor tournaments. But Pele was injured in second game in World Cup so he really didn't contribute it so much.

IMO clearly WC best player + Libertadores SF > WC 1,5 games + Libertadores win.

In my mind he was closer in 1958.

by Harmonica Wed Jan 18, 2012 4:23 am

Starting to fill the gaps:

eligible - Who would have won Ballon d'Or's if everyone were eligible? Di-ZRTW

1987 I think because Gullit won it by winning only Dutch league, Maradona would have won it after the success of WC, and lifting Napoli to first ever Serie-A win, and also Copa Italia win.
1988 Van Basten won it by winning Euro and being top scorer/player, won also league and 1 minor cup.
1989 Van Basten won it by winning European Cup and being top scorer, also won 2 minor cups.

by Harmonica Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:50 am

eligible - Who would have won Ballon d'Or's if everyone were eligible? Di-X23O

1983 This one is though, Platini only won national cup, and was runner-up in European Cup. EC winning team was also all European so there is no possibility there. I can think only two options, Aguilera who won Copa America for Uruguay being top scorer and league, and Maradona who won 3x minor cups. IMO Aguilera would have had the best shout.
1984 Platini won it by winning Euro and being clearly the best player, also won league and 2 minor cups.
1985 Platini won it by winning European cup and being top scorer.

by Harmonica Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:31 am

eligible - Who would have won Ballon d'Or's if everyone were eligible? Di-RM4I

1979 Keegan won it by winning league, the fact that Copa America didn't have any star performers, and European Cup was won by all European Nottingham, can't see any other candidates.
1980 Rummennigge won it by winning Euro and being best player, also won league.
1981 Rummennigge won it by winning league, possible after effect from Euro. European Cup was won by all european Liverpool.

by Harmonica Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:51 am

eligible - Who would have won Ballon d'Or's if everyone were eligible? Di-BQJ1

1975 Blokhin won it by winning league and minor cup, European Cup was won by all european Bayern Munich. No stars in Copa America.
1976 Beckenbauer won it by winning European cup and being 2. in Euros.
1977 Simonsen won it by winning league, European cup was won by all european Liverpool.

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