Re: Cristiano Ronaldo-the most overrated player of all time?

by Killer Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:08 pm

titosantill wrote:@ killer, your statistics are part of the reason people say "stats don't tell the whole story" and "if you beat/torture your stats long enough they will correspond to your argument".....whilst cristiano may have scored some goals when it seems the game was rapped up, your argument does little justice to the intangibles that he brings to the pitch. One of such intangibles is the fear installed in defenders to sometimes overtly concentrate on him thus allowing other players get into the fray....most of the world's top players have such intangibles, especially when they are forwards and don't necessarily need to hold the ball for large minutes of the game before scoring. Every opponent we face makes defensive adjustments to account for cristiano, any team that says they don't are either foolish or lying....and a lot of times such teams end up shooting themselves in the foot with such adjustments.

cristiano has his issues, but to spew out that we would have won ucl without him based on your analysis isn't a fact, but an opinion or in your case a hypothesis which your stats still fails to prove.... Learn to distinguish facts from opinions or hypothesis; "the sky is blue", "fire is hot", "the earth is sphere" are all facts. "ronaldo could win ballon d'or", "messi should win footballer of the year", "the rain is beautiful", "the whether is lovely" are opinions. "

your argument that based on the goals cristiano scored and the fact they were not necessarilly deciders means that madrid would still have still won the ucl is actually NOT even a good hypothesis as it doesn't explain the cause and effect properly, it fails to account for many intangibles, and you probably cannot even test it....its more of a 'scenario', one that holds little water, than a hypothesis even....i mean anything can happen in sports, so i'll combat your "coulda, woulda, shoulda" with one of my own...u say he scored the third in a game, so it shouldn't matter, what if he wasn't in the team, thus didnt score and the opponents came back?

you can call him arrogant and a 'stat sheet stuffer', and i'll agree with you in that respect, but to say "if he didn't play they would have won and that is a fact", is a ridiculous statement to make, that cannot eve be backed up properly, regardless of the ludicrous stats and analogies that you have put forward

bla bla bla, all bullshit, this is the reality of the facts accept them.
This guy is greatest flop in big games i ever seen.

titosantill wrote:Every opponent we face makes defensive adjustments to account for cristiano

this is a pathetic excuse, I've never seen anything like this.

If this guy doesn't score some tap-inS or useless goals, is is absolutely useless, because his passing sucks and isn't a great dribbler.

It's not like Messi or Ibra, that even if they don't score, they make their teammates better.

by RealGunner Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:12 pm

"This guy is greatest flop in big games i ever seen" is not a fact.

Tito's post is excellent and he argues every single of your point. If you are looking for a debate then debate properly.

by Killer Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:24 pm

RealGunner wrote:"This guy is greatest flop in big games i ever seen" is not a fact.

Tito's post is excellent and he argues every single of your point. If you are looking for a debate then debate properly.

He didn't argue nothing, this is only an evasive way to not accept the reality of facts.

by Killer Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:34 pm

Valkyrja wrote:JD lock this thread please, it's a disgrace

why?'

You don't like the facts?

by titosantill Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:35 pm

you obviously don't know how to distinguish 'facts' from 'opinion'...so until you can learn to distinguish both, i'm done, because i'll look foolish arguing with you

by Killer Sat Aug 09, 2014 9:39 pm

Killer wrote:
titosantill wrote:@ killer, your statistics are part of the reason people say "stats don't tell the whole story" and "if you beat/torture your stats long enough they will correspond to your argument".....whilst cristiano may have scored some goals when it seems the game was rapped up, your argument does little justice to the intangibles that he brings to the pitch. One of such intangibles is the fear installed in defenders to sometimes overtly concentrate on him thus allowing other players get into the fray....most of the world's top players have such intangibles, especially when they are forwards and don't necessarily need to hold the ball for large minutes of the game before scoring. Every opponent we face makes defensive adjustments to account for cristiano, any team that says they don't are either foolish or lying....and a lot of times such teams end up shooting themselves in the foot with such adjustments.

cristiano has his issues, but to spew out that we would have won ucl without him based on your analysis isn't a fact, but an opinion or in your case a hypothesis which your stats still fails to prove.... Learn to distinguish facts from opinions or hypothesis; "the sky is blue", "fire is hot", "the earth is sphere" are all facts. "ronaldo could win ballon d'or", "messi should win footballer of the year", "the rain is beautiful", "the whether is lovely" are opinions. "

your argument that based on the goals cristiano scored and the fact they were not necessarilly deciders means that madrid would still have still won the ucl is actually NOT even a good hypothesis as it doesn't explain the cause and effect properly, it fails to account for many intangibles, and you probably cannot even test it....its more of a 'scenario', one that holds little water, than a hypothesis even....i mean anything can happen in sports, so i'll combat your "coulda, woulda, shoulda" with one of my own...u say he scored the third in a game, so it shouldn't matter, what if he wasn't in the team, thus didnt score and the opponents came back?

you can call him arrogant and a 'stat sheet stuffer', and i'll agree with you in that respect, but to say "if he didn't play they would have won and that is a fact", is a ridiculous statement to make, that cannot eve be backed up properly, regardless of the ludicrous stats and analogies that you have put forward

bla bla bla, all bullshit, this is the reality of the facts accept them.
This guy is greatest flop in big games i ever seen.

titosantill wrote:Every opponent we face makes defensive adjustments to account for cristiano
this is a pathetic excuse, I've never seen anything like this.

If this guy doesn't score some tap-inS or useless goals, he is absolutely useless, because his passing sucks and isn't a great dribbler.

It's not like Messi or Ibra, that even if they don't score, they make their teammates better.

by Zealous Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:43 pm

Killer here is a fact for you, you know nothing about football or professional sports in general. You also (quite obviously) have reading comprehension issues as well.

Tito gave you a nice response but you can't reply because 90% of your material is probably not yours but some stuff you copy from twitter or elsewhere.

Next time you feel the need to share your clearly irrelevant opinion on this issue I challenge you to do 15 push ups and 15 sit ups. I'm pretty sure you won't be able to do half of those.

by Doc Mon Aug 11, 2014 4:18 pm

Ibra makes his teammates look better?! He does give the impression of someone with a good fashion sense.

by Killer Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:30 pm

from Twitter: Cristiano Ronaldo has scored 70% of his goals at Real Madrid with just the one-touch (this total includes free kicks and penalties).

Cristiano Ronaldo-the most overrated player of all time? - Page 10 C9i1s

Cristiano Ronaldo-the most overrated player of all time? - Page 10 C9i1s

by Killer Fri Sep 19, 2014 1:31 pm

Killer wrote:from Twitter: Cristiano Ronaldo has scored 70% of his goals at Real Madrid with just the one-touch (this total includes free kicks and penalties).

by LeVersacci Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:36 pm

Why did you quote yourself lmao?

by FennecFox7 Sat Sep 20, 2014 10:00 am

Wait.. One touch scoring is bad now? Dude, have you ever played football?

by Thimmy Sun Sep 21, 2014 6:01 am

Killer wrote:I think that Real should sell him and buy Suarez, Hazard and Pogba.

is the only way that Real can win La Decima

Cristiano Ronaldo-the most overrated player of all time? - Page 10 Ab1629f03d646a755830fc704f690b8b_400x400

by Kick Sun Sep 21, 2014 7:14 am

Thimmy wrote:
Killer wrote:I think that Real should sell him and buy Suarez, Hazard and Pogba.

is the only way that Real can win La Decima

by M99 Sun Sep 21, 2014 7:26 am

by Valkyrja Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:21 am

Have you seen that one touch headed goal yesterday ? Laughing

by sree999 Mon Sep 22, 2014 3:44 pm

Cristiano footballing ability is limited when you compare him to a magician like messi or ibra . I don't understand why this point is so hard for some football fans to understand . Yes Cristiano has become a better goal stad padder than messi over the past year .

by halamadrid2 Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:10 pm

Ronaldo is a complete footballer. He can do it all. He has less quality than Ibra and Messi in the playmaking aspect but he is better than them in other so it goes both ways

I don't think any Barca fans would want to swap Ronaldo and Messi and no Madrid fan would either. Both are legends for their Clubs, that's quite a feat in itself

by Zealous Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:34 pm

sree999 wrote: Cristiano footballing ability is limited when you compare him to a magician like messi or ibra . I don't understand why this point is so hard for some football fans to understand . Yes Cristiano has become a better goal stad padder than messi over the past year .

Coming from someone who can't even do 10 push ups rofl

CR has nothing to envy from any footballer on the planet (Messi and Ibra included), his skill set as a footballer is absolutely complete. Anything else is just aesthetic preference.

by FennecFox7 Tue Sep 23, 2014 2:12 am

Cristiano is twice the athlete ibra and messi are combined. cristiano can eat mcdonalds all day and still be fast. messi and ibra always have to train to be match fit. see what i did there? Theres the talent argument

by LeSwagg James Tue Sep 23, 2014 2:32 am

Cristiano has been playing well, hasn't been selfish for the most part.. If he continues to cut out the selfishness from his game I won't have any problems with him

by sree999 Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:04 pm

by rwo power Mon Dec 14, 2015 6:02 pm

@sree999

Your post was reported as trolling, and while I'd be inclined to support your view in the General Section, this is the Real Madrid section where you should tread more lightly where RM players are concerned. So please take your post into the GenSec, there it would be okay - here it is in the wrong section.

by raulmadrid4vr Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:34 pm

years have passed my friends. i hope you see why i made this thread now. now that real and barca are not topping the table 20 points ahead of the 3rd team with 60 more goals scored, we *magically* see that cristiano's goal count has become comparable to any other top striker in the league, or other leagues for that matter. the reason for his inflated goal count was a high number of non important goals, usually against weaker teams, as he was given all the passes and the team played for him, and that team utterly dominated their league in an unprecedented manner for many years in a row.

however, i have to give him credit. after his first 2 seasons, he did begin to become more of a team player, although at times he certainly did turn back into the "give me the ball at all costs so i can score the 4-0 and 5-0 and increase my goal tally" player we was throughout his entire first 2 seasons at madrid. also, at that point in time, he started also scoring against top teams (although he still scores much more against the weaker teams, relatively speaking).

the times of 40 goals a season in the league are over. he will never be able to do it again in a top league. also, i believe he will burn at out 33/34. i know player fitness is very good in this generation, but after so many years of putting so much effort in every game in order to improve his goal tally, he will burn out. there is no way he will play in 2022. euro 2020 will be his last tournament. he will stay at madrid for 2 more seasons. then he might go back for 1-2 seasons to man united and then he will go to qatar for 2-3 years.

the only time he scored crazy amounts was when his team scored crazy amounts. when your team scores 120 and the 3rd place team scores 60, and the team plays for you, its not impossible to get 45 goals. its impressive but it doesnt necessarily make you an all time great, it just means you are a lethal in form striker. all time greats would score more than 45 under such scenarios. lewa, batistuta, r9 could have probably scored 55. so my point is not to hate on cristiano. he is a top 5 attacking player for his generation (which is the weakest generation), but this does not put him into the all time top 10 for attacking players, as many people erroneously believe.

by FennecFox7 Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:37 pm

This is still stupid. Ronaldo is in his thirties and all of a sudden he's "magically" never good enough for us.

And now you're trying to say I told you so, basically comparing a prime CR with a broken, perma injured CR whos much older.

Every player scores alot when their team scores alot.. what the hell are you on about?

He's mediocre now but rewriting history seems to be GL's thing these days
We could have done alot worse then CR. And blaming him for the manager and the president not having the balls to discipline him properly is dumb. we still won a CL, a la liga, and a copa with his help among others.

Sure his selfishness and bad team attitiude hurts us, and i know it hurts us alot. But he still played well with us. Goals are goals and assists are assists, when you actually compare his amount of "important" goals to top players its nearly the same.

At this moment in time, however, he better shape up under zidane or gtfo forever. His legacy at madrid was ruined by his primadona and disgusting attitude. I just can't stand players who are all about the "me, me, me"... i thought he turned a corner during carlos first season but nope, nothing

by raulmadrid4vr Tue Jan 12, 2016 6:42 pm

FennecFox7 wrote:This is still stupid. Ronaldo is in his thirties and all of a sudden he's "magically" never good enough for us.

And now you're trying to say I told you so, basically comparing a prime CR with a broken, perma injured CR whos much older.

Every player scores alot when their team scores alot.. what the hell are you on about?

He's mediocre now but rewriting history seems to be GL's thing these days

he is "in his 30s?" he just turned 30. dont blame it on the age. after 30 attackers lose speed but they make it up by boosting other aspects of their game. so until 32 they are still in top form. the problem with cristiano is that he will refuse to be a passer. someone like messi will play well until his mid/late 30s because he will switch to attacking mid. but i dont see cristiano doing that.

every player scores a lot when their team scores a lot... this is exactly my point. it wasnt cristianos "magic" that inflated his goal count, it was the team. again, i never said he was not a lethal striker for us during those years, i just said it is foolish to say that he is a top 10 all time attacking player just because of his numbers.

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