The Official Dwayne Wade <<<<<< you thread

El Gunner wrote:stupid discussion to have because it's all context and scenario based, the 90s isnt the same as the 00s and 10s, the game evolves.

But just based off skillset, it's clear to me that Jordan was the better player, athlete, better winning mentality and more clutch as well than LeBron.

Based off skillset? It's pretty even there for me. LeBron is a better 3 point shooter, much better passer, more versatile on defense. He's also more consistent in regards to longevity and staying healthy, which is why I'd pick him over MJ to start a franchise.
Jordan has him in shooting everywhere else, post moves, perimeter defense and ball handling.

Also Jordan is not a better athlete than LeBron. That's a ridiculous claim.

El Gunner wrote:
also i thought we already wrote off the criticism that competition and players were shit back then...
If the Bulls were so stacked why didnt they top the Eastern conference and at least even make the finals in those two seasons Jordan went to play baseball??????

First of all. There's only one playoff without MJ to judge that team on. They weren't that good in the second year because they lost some of the championship pedigree to FA.

He left the Bulls and they were 2 games away from the best record. Then they added Rodman and MJ to that team. You don't think that's a stacked team?

And no one said the competition was shit. But those teams are not close to today. That Pippen contract might be the sole reason for that though. It's the reason Bulls always had a considerably better team that their opponent in finals.

so you're only addressing the second coming, and not the first championship hat-trick then in terms of stackness and competition??

i disagree with you just said basically. Can't say LeBron is a better 3 point shooter when the 3 point shot wasn't the same back then as it was now in today's game. That's what i meant by different contexts and scenarios making it mostly stupid to compare. Only unless LeBron shot like Steph, Klay or Ray Allen you can make that statement. Jordan could have focused more on his three if he played today and thus increased his percentage, and i definitely believe he would have because his mentality and focus has always been second to none and his jumper is also a thousand times smoother than LeBron's.

1991 – They played a way past-it showtime-Lakers team after Kareem was done and the rest looked old.

1992 – Trailblazers stole two games and they didn't really have close to the same firepower. I'm actually really impressed Drexler and his dudes did that.

1993 – Suns were also not close to the same firepower. But the fact Barkley stole a couple of games is testament to his greatness and that the rings argument is stupid as hell.

Is there a year where you think the other team on paper would stand a chance? I think you're underrating Pippen greatly.

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Also his mentality was second to none? I don't if I agree with that tbh. There's been plenty.

Tragedy happened to him, but he still burned out twice because he was mentally exhausted, which is the right thing to do.

Kareem, LeBron, Kobe, Tim Duncan all people who were up there in mental fortitude and focus. And there's more where they came from.

his in-game mentality and focus is what im talking about, guy could turn it up just like that when he wanted

i think you're trying to discredit his greatness by discrediting the ease of his rings...??? and im not having any of that, so you believe what you want to believe.

Judging strength of an entire league based on finals matchup is weird.

El Gunner wrote:his in-game mentality and focus is what im talking about, guy could turn it up just like that when he wanted

i think you're trying to discredit his greatness by discrediting the ease of his rings...??? and im not having any of that, so you believe what you want to believe.

And yeah, all those guys listed could turn it just like that also.

I'm only trying to offer something other than "Jordan is the undisputed GOAT" and instead argue towards there being a lot of them through different eras.

And if you disagree with my argument that the competition in MJ and Pippen's championship runs were weaker compared to today. At least put some effort into a retort instead of "Nah, I'm not having it" or all than other stuff.

You watch like 5 minutes of game footage of MJ in a documentary produced by the man himself, and then you're an oracle of truth.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Judging strength of an entire league based on finals matchup is weird.

Again, if you disagree with it. Where are the tough matchups in the Finals, or the East? At least in the second run. The best team they met were Shaq and Penny in 1996, who they lost to the year before. And he basically avoided the biggest threat in the finals in the years he retired. What I wouldn't do to watch him against that Houston team

I think the same argument is fair against LeBron tbh. He met some pretty easy matchups in the East through his runs. But I value his losses a lot, just like some of MJ's losses are more impressive to me than his actual championships.

I'm not arguing 1997/98

I'm arguing the majority of the 90s, league was absolutely stacked between 1990-96.

After the expansion stuff and people getting old and younger talent not really establishing themselves yet it meant 97/98 was quite weak yes.

But i don't want to put the entire 90s in that same basket, although it's been lost to history somewhat but those Jazz teams and the Sonics were extremely good.

El Gunner wrote:his in-game mentality and focus is what im talking about, guy could turn it up just like that when he wanted

Sounds like Lebron.

You know there was a period where he was in the finals for nearly a decade.

Can you name a person from the 2007 finals squad that he dragged there? Dont say Varejão

Freeza wrote:You watch like 5 minutes of game footage of MJ in a documentary produced by the man himself, and then you're an oracle of truth.

i've watched highlights of him before this docu-series, thank you very much can i ask were you old enough by then to have seen 90s basketball since you're trying to call me out on it?
besides i never said im the oracle of truth, only provided my view on the matter

Freeza wrote:And if you disagree with my argument that the competition in MJ and Pippen's championship runs were weaker compared to today. At least put some effort into a retort instead of "Nah, I'm not having it" or all than other stuff.

i think i already touched on this when i said it's stupid to compare different eras and styles of play.
Plus there were clearly other great players and championship worthy teams in the 90s///who are you to say they were weaker than the competition of today?
i mean how do you begin to make that comparison


the Magic matchups in 95 and 96 should say a lot. Magic had a great team and they had to play their best to beat a just returning MJ and his Bulls in 95, and the following season the Bulls made extremely light work of them.
his effect is clear as daylight.

Do you think the Bulls beat that Magic team in 96 with Pip and Rodman but minus MJ?
I've watched another documentary on that Magic team before, Penny Hardaway and Shaq were a nasty combo, and Horace Grant was a lovely veteran for them to have.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaD0bpVtQXI

they aint gon' be ready for that Warriors HEEEEEAT next season

Steve Kerr really deserved to get punched for naming his son Nick

Nick is a great name

El Gunner wrote:Nick is a great name

not when your last name is Kerr

haha, just said it out loud

FFS



Thats Kevin Durant commenting

I love Durant. He is an insecure bitch, absolutely, but he's tons of fun and very real with fans on Twitter, the press, etc.

It's refreshing to see as opposed to the many athletes with PR teams running a squeeky clean ship.

Although his play is really what I love the most. That stuff is nice too, though.

Apparently he was a nice guy long ago, then he got hurt when the internet made a meme out of him, and he's been some kind of an asshole ever since ?

Kukoc not even mentioned in the end titles

Meanwhile Steve Kerr is.. Jordan is so fucking petty. Kukoc was clearly the third best player on those teams.

Also they've done an incredible job of erasing any mention of Jordan with the Wizards.

Saving the last 2 episodes for tonight !!

They seem to have agenda against Krause and Kukoc in this documentary, not much positive is said about them.

I think Jerry Reinsdorf is despicable tbh. He's a cheap fucker who blames everything on a dead guy.

Freeza wrote: Kukoc was clearly the third best player on those teams.

Also they've done an incredible job of erasing any mention of Jordan with the Wizards.

Two things, as good as good as Kukoc was no he wasn't lol.

Also this clearly is about the Bulls lol, you talk about the other stuff to set the story and the Wizards are completely irrelevant to the story.

It's like doing a Shaq doc and complaining we don't see Cleveland and Celtic Shaq.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

Freeza wrote: Kukoc was clearly the third best player on those teams.

Also they've done an incredible job of erasing any mention of Jordan with the Wizards.

Two things, as good as good as Kukoc was no he wasn't lol.

Also this clearly is about the Bulls lol, you talk about the other stuff to set the story and the Wizards are completely irrelevant to the story.

It's like doing a Shaq doc and complaining we don't see Cleveland and Celtic Shaq.

Have you seen the ending?

The ending lines were about MJ, Pippen, Rodman and Steve Kerr. Steve Kerr somehow deserved to have a line next to the other players? A player who continually underperformed in the playoffs.

Kukoc was definitely a better player than Rodman that season. His usage rate was just low.

There was a whole segment about game five, where Kukoc played better than everyone. He went 11-13 for 30 something, and he wasn’t mentioned once.

Think it’s disrespectful to not mention the importance of the best 6th man in the league during those three championships.

Only time they delved into Kukoc the whole doc was when Pippen and Jordan dominated him in the first game of the olympics.

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Regarding the wizards stuff, it’s not the same. It would be like making a Shaq documentary and then after he won the ship when heat the documentary ended and there was an end title with the text “Shaq never played again”

Also Kukoc was probably the second most reliable player that 1998 finals.

Yes I've seen it, I'm not arguing he didn't get enough respect I'm saying he wasn't their 3rd best player.

Also the Shaq comp isn't exact sure, but the point is made.

His Wizards tenure is completely irrelevant to the story being told, it's about his final year in Chicago and you tell the other stuff to properly tell that story.

Wizards have nothing to do with that, such a weird criticism.

How was Rodman better. Please explain.

Dude was 37, way past his prime, hunted for rebounds and tbh he couldn’t do shit against Malone at that point, but then again who could.

Kukoc was the only player scoring at more than 50% FG and he had the same ppg as Pippen. I find it weird how they’re supposedly telling the story about that season without mentioning it at all.

I really liked the documentary but I feel it undermines the whole doc when there’s such a clear angle to not include him and then include Steve Kerr substantially in the doc despite him being like 7th man. He’s only included that much because he’s famous and a top 3 coach in the league while Kukoc is virtually unknown.

Overall I just feel bad for the guy.

Even Steve Kerr agrees with this:

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/why-steve-kerr-almost-embarrassed-be-included-last-dance-ads

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And the wizards thing is about the end titles. “Michael Jordan went back into retirement”. I just think it’s a weird note to end on. Usually in documentaries the end titles are epilogues to explain what happened after the events of the documentary. Making the end titles like this is slightly misleading imo. I would’ve wanted a traditional epilogue. But I can guarantee you MJ wouldn’t agree to them including mentions of the Wizards.