Re: 2019/2020 Premier League Discussion: Chapter II

by Nishankly Sun Dec 15, 2019 10:43 pm

Good breakdown on the Moise Kean situation with stats

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/50802290

In the 18 minutes he was on he did not manage a shot of any type. Not particularly great for a striker and especially one still searching for his first goal for the club but then Everton were, at that point, under pressure from the hosts and instead holding out for a point rather than going for a win.

In terms of his general play, Kean had nine touches of the ball - the fewest of any player until his replacement, Niasse, came on for the final two minutes and touched the ball four times.

Kean won none of his five duels with Manchester United players, and lost the ball six times while making no tackles.

Niasse, in contrast, won 50% of his duels and did not lose possession once while making two tackles - as many as centre-back Michael Keane.

by halamadrid2 Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:07 pm

Wait, hang on. I just read the news. Moise was subbed in and then subbed out 18 mins later Shocked

what a way to kill his confidence. Duncan Ferguson with man management skills only rivalled by Solari. Coward!!

by Thimmy Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:32 pm

Moise really didn’t look like he had much confidence, to begin with. He definitely had to come off. Shouldn’t have been subbed in, but that’s captain hindsight speaking.

by rincon Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:37 pm

Subbing a player out after 15 minutes is just terrible management. 2 managerial bad decisions made in 15 minutes to break a player and manager

by halamadrid2 Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:50 pm

Imagine if coaches started subbing off players who don't play up to standard when being subbed on. Terrible from the coach. No two ways about it. You just don't do that, especially to a kid

by halamadrid2 Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:52 pm

Sarri never recovered from his fight with Kepa. Ferguson won't last long past this

by Casciavit Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:47 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Casciavit wrote:Mahrez is so shit. Waste of 60M.
the point was never to make sure he would be a good player for City, it was to make sure that no other team in the league signed him. Ie the Bayern tactic

He was signed because the sheikhs wanted City to have an Arab star after seeing the commercial influence Salah had.

Shame they looked at the background and not the player. Because with Mahrez all I see is someone who is:

-Slow
-Predictable
-One-footed
-Meh 1v1s
-Doesn't hold his position
-Very inefficient
-Does this thing where he'll receive the ball then do a stepover and pass it backward despite having a clear 1v1 opportunity
-Does this other thing where he'll receive the ball run in the opposite direction (to his own goal) and try to make a pass to a player in the middle which ends up getting intercepted

His only saving grace is that he has amazing shooting technique. A true waste of 60M. There's a reason no top club bought him after 2016. Usually, with these surprise teams, the real talents get bought that same summer after having their breakthrough.

If they aren't bought right away then it's because scouts usually have their question marks about them. If they were legit, top teams won't wait on them, they'll snap them up right away.

by Casciavit Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:01 am

Rodri is also potentially on my fraud list, but he's young so I'll give him more time. Either way, it won't change the fact that Partey was the true star of that Atletico pivot.

by BarrileteCosmico Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:37 am

Any Spanish player that goes by his 1st name is a fraud imo

by El Gunner Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:31 am

Casciavit wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Casciavit wrote:Mahrez is so shit. Waste of 60M.
the point was never to make sure he would be a good player for City, it was to make sure that no other team in the league signed him. Ie the Bayern tactic

He was signed because the sheikhs wanted City to have an Arab star after seeing the commercial influence Salah had.

Shame they looked at the background and not the player. Because with Mahrez all I see is someone who is:

-Slow
-Predictable
-One-footed
-Meh 1v1s
-Doesn't hold his position
-Very inefficient
-Does this thing where he'll receive the ball then do a stepover and pass it backward despite having a clear 1v1 opportunity
-Does this other thing where he'll receive the ball run in the opposite direction (to his own goal) and try to make a pass to a player in the middle which ends up getting intercepted

His only saving grace is that he has amazing shooting technique. A true waste of 60M. There's a reason no top club bought him after 2016. Usually, with these surprise teams, the real talents get bought that same summer after having their breakthrough.

If they aren't bought right away then it's because scouts usually have their question marks about them. If they were legit, top teams won't wait on them, they'll snap them up right away.

would take Mahrez at Arsenal in a heartbeat

by Thimmy Mon Dec 16, 2019 7:34 am

Casciavit wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Casciavit wrote:Mahrez is so shit. Waste of 60M.
the point was never to make sure he would be a good player for City, it was to make sure that no other team in the league signed him. Ie the Bayern tactic

He was signed because the sheikhs wanted City to have an Arab star after seeing the commercial influence Salah had.

Shame they looked at the background and not the player. Because with Mahrez all I see is someone who is:

-Slow
-Predictable
-One-footed
-Meh 1v1s
-Doesn't hold his position
-Very inefficient
-Does this thing where he'll receive the ball then do a stepover and pass it backward despite having a clear 1v1 opportunity
-Does this other thing where he'll receive the ball run in the opposite direction (to his own goal) and try to make a pass to a player in the middle which ends up getting intercepted

His only saving grace is that he has amazing shooting technique. A true waste of 60M. There's a reason no top club bought him after 2016. Usually, with these surprise teams, the real talents get bought that same summer after having their breakthrough.

If they aren't bought right away then it's because scouts usually have their question marks about them. If they were legit, top teams won't wait on them, they'll snap them up right away.

No offense intended, but this seems like a lot of speculation and guesswork. I’m not a particularly big fan of Mahrez, but I think I’ve seen enough of him to declare that he’s definitely a very good player, and those points you make regarding his talent or lack thereof would seem quite silly if he’d been going through a patch of good form, as opposed to being the deflated, bench alternative he is right now.

I don’t know how much interest there was for him in 2016, but I do recall watching an interview around the same time where he seemed to subtly suggest that he was open to a move away from Leicester, but the club didn’t seem interested in entertaining any bids for him. Either way, he should’ve stayed at Leicester or picked a club where he’d have better odds of becoming a regular starting player. Not that I don’t understand how tempting it must be to accept an offer from Man City, these days.

by Jay29 Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:34 am

I managed to watch 40 minutes of Arsenal yesterday and caught the wonderful defending and "effort" from the boys. City's second goal about sums Arsenal up as a team over the last decade. "Defending" and "discipline" are ugly words they don't want to associate with, to the point of neglecting them entirely in the deluded hopes they can coast by with individual quality.

The club is broken. The management have dropped Ljungberg in the worst possible job and have given him zero support. They tell the media how much they rate him and whatnot but neglect to give him a coaching team. Right now, he has two coaches: Mertesacker, who's doing two jobs because he's supposed to be Head of Youth Development and not a coach, and Sal Bibbo, who was coaching the u23 goalkeepers. These three, who have very little coaching experience, are supposed to turn this mess of an Arsenal team into something approaching competent and competitive. rofl

Even Ljungberg himself has been on record saying he needs help and how the club needs to appoint a new manager ASAP.

But there's the other problem. Arsenal haven't a clue who their next manager is. They really didn't want to sack Emery until the situation became so bad they had no choice. Evidently, they had no backup plan. It's been three weeks since and the club is sitting on its hands, putting out lines about how they want the "right" guy, while the team slips closer to the relegation zone. Meanwhile, other clubs sack their manager and hire a new one within days. Amazing how, even after turfing out all the old managment and bringing in new guys, Arsenal continue to be the slowest "big" club around when it comes to business. But I suppose I shouldn't expect much from a club that spent months agonising over Wenger's replacement and came up with Emery.

Then say they do get the "right" guy. Is he going to get the players he needs? I have my doubts. The club's transfer strategy has been disastrous for years, signing players who lack the quality, or who don't fit into any kind of system. Emery, for all his faults, wanted hard workers and physical players, but instead got Ceballos and Pepe. He needed a quality defender and got David Luiz. Go back further to the Wenger years and it's the same problems. Sanchez wants out, so the club signs a centre forward instead of a winger. Now they have two centre forwards who can't play together but are better than the rest of the team so have to play anyway. Ozil was given that new contract, despite being a husk of the player he was. Kolasinac and Xhaka were signed; both guys give it their all, which is appreciated, but are painfully lacking in intelligence and quality.

A new manager will come in and see he has a frontline who won't defend and a backline too scared to defend anywhere but the edge of their own penalty area. Between them is a midfield with zero discipline and positional awareness. He's going to need all the luck in the world to whip that lot into shape, while being supported by a management that only pretend it knows what it's doing.

by Hapless_Hans Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:41 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Any Spanish player that goes by his 1st name is a fraud imo

2019/2020 Premier League Discussion: Chapter II - Page 31 9k=

by Unique Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:00 pm

So arsenal are about to appoint arteta as manager. Just when you thought the club had run out of dumb shit to do they come up with this. Laughing

by Hapless_Hans Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:06 pm

I'm going to be positive about this one and somewhat nervously excited about what Arteta can do

obviously this kind of means taking the very, very long road, and I would be interested to hear what the goals of the club would be, this season, next season

financially, Arsenal seem to be in bitter need of CL football for some reason I can't fully understand

by The Demon of Carthage Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:31 pm

Not really informed with all things Arsenal so maybe what I'm about to say is not factually accurate but here goes: maybe they tried to sign an established manager but failed and had to settle for Arteta? Maybe they were coerced into choosing him because their first choices weren't available?

Maybe they tried their luck with Mou, Poch and Max but weren't able to bring them in?

by Thimmy Mon Dec 16, 2019 4:48 pm

The Demon of Carthage wrote:Not really informed with all things Arsenal so maybe what I'm about to say is not factually accurate but here goes: maybe they tried to sign an established manager but failed and had to settle for Arteta? Maybe they were coerced into choosing him because their first choices weren't available?

Maybe they tried their luck with Mou, Poch and Max but weren't able to bring them in?

To the average fan, that scenario screams of boring and lacking in necessary drama. It’s much more likely that the board got drunk at a strip club when they should’ve been hiring... Pep Guardiola!

Because Pep Guardiola is clearly on his way out as a result of this prolonged.. disappointment! Or so I’ve read on here.

by Jay29 Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:01 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:I'm going to be positive about this one and somewhat nervously excited about what Arteta can do

obviously this kind of means taking the very, very long road, and I would be interested to hear what the goals of the club would be, this season, next season

financially, Arsenal seem to be in bitter need of CL football for some reason I can't fully understand

Put simply: Wages. Arsenal are running a CL-level wage bill without CL income. Ozil's contract plays a big part in that, being twice as the next highest earner at the club (which is Auba, iirc).

One year out the CL is fine. Two years you can manage. Three years you're struggling. Four years... it's time to downscale. You can't have a guy on 350k a week with no CL.

It's not so much the transfer fees (if Pepe's transfer was anything to go by), but a lack of room on the wage bill to add any more big salaries, even if Arsenal went with a "Zidanes and Pavones" type structure.

As for goals, publicly the club will say CL qualification is still on because the points gap isn't substantial and there's half a season left. Privately, though, they can't be expecting it anymore. Simply salvaging the club's form and getting them into the top six will be the goal. After that, it really depends on who leaves, because Auba and Laca aren't extending their contracts as it stands.

The Demon of Carthage wrote:Not really informed with all things Arsenal so maybe what I'm about to say is not factually accurate but here goes: maybe they tried to sign an established manager but failed and had to settle for Arteta? Maybe they were coerced into choosing him because their first choices weren't available?

Maybe they tried their luck with Mou, Poch and Max but weren't able to bring them in?

I can shed light on this.

Arsenal's shortlist post-Wenger was:

Lopetegui
Sampaoli
Rangnick
Emery
Allegri
Vieira
Henry
Arteta

This was whittled down to just Emery and, believe it or not, Arteta. Sources at the club were convinced Arteta was a shoe-in until Emery got it at the last minute. Allegri apparently "didn't interview well".

Post Emery sacking, a lot of names were being thrown about, but it sounds like the club has gone back to their no.2 choice from before. Which I guess does make some sense.

Of course, Mourinho going to Spurs, Allegri not wanting to manage until the summer and Pochettino still technically being under Spurs' employ might have something to do with that as well.

by Hapless_Hans Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:09 pm

Jay29 wrote:Allegri apparently "didn't interview well".

still find this unbelievably comical

and also cute that Arsenal apparently thought he was auditioning for them, not the other way round

by Jay29 Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:18 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:
Jay29 wrote:Allegri apparently "didn't interview well".

still find this unbelievably comical

and also cute that Arsenal apparently thought he was auditioning for them, not the other way round

The whole thing is comical. For all the talk of club values and maintaining a philosophy, the club's shortlist ranged from pragmatists and tinkerers like Emery and Allegri, to "purists" like Sampaoli and Lopetegui. Both sets of managers would have demanded very different types of players.

It's the same thing now. Links with Nuno and Marcelino, both defensive coaches, but talking with Arteta, who we're assuming is an attacking coach with a flair for possession football.

by danyjr Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:22 pm

Sometimes you just want a 'winner' coach so the fans stay off your back for a while. United did the same with Mourinho and it backfired. Real Madrid did too, with Mourinho, and Los Blancos enjoyed mediocre success under him.

The only weird name in that list is Arteta who is completely unproven and is likely to flop harder than Emery did.

by Hapless_Hans Mon Dec 16, 2019 6:23 pm

Jay29 wrote:
Hapless_Hans wrote:
Jay29 wrote:Allegri apparently "didn't interview well".

still find this unbelievably comical

and also cute that Arsenal apparently thought he was auditioning for them, not the other way round

The whole thing is comical. For all the talk of club values and maintaining a philosophy, the club's shortlist ranged from pragmatists and tinkerers like Emery and Allegri, to "purists" like Sampaoli and Lopetegui. Both sets of managers would have demanded very different types of players.

It's the same thing now. Links with Nuno and Marcelino, both defensive coaches, but talking with Arteta, who we're assuming is an attacking coach with a flair for possession football.

It's true, the list is all over the place. I would refuse to believe its accuracy because it's so crude, but it comes from too many too well informed Arsenal sources to be wrong, doesn't it.

And it's not just all over the place in terms of style, also in terms of what range of power the managerial position would have.
Rangnick especially, would never work under a DoF, he'd surely want to run the club like an English "manager" and oversee the squad building himself