Re: Frenkie De Jong

by Onyx Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:47 pm

Was waiting for it too, turns out it was the generic long pass at the start. hmm

by futbol Sat Sep 05, 2020 3:11 pm

Says everything you need to know that he gets hyped for those kind of generic passes that most centerbacks pull off in modern football. Laughing

by Myesyats Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:19 pm

He's about the same level as Thiago was at that age. and now Thiago is hailed as the best CM in the world. By hans at least hmm

The elegance and frequency with which Frenkie produces these passes is way above average.

You guys are haters who cannot accept that Barca can actually occasionally do good business.

Also, to counter that, most of Xavi's through balls were quite generic but what made him rise above every other CM was how often he was making them.

by Myesyats Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:40 pm

In fact I would say that Thiago at that age was almost exactly the same as Frenkie is now hmm

And now he leaves Bayern as a WC CM very much appreciated by the Bavarian community.

by Myesyats Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:51 pm

Myesyats wrote:Griezmann: “Best player I’ve faced? I would say Frenkie de Jong. Whenever I tried to pressure him I never succeeded.” [via oh my goal]

by Casciavit Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:18 pm

Central midfielders with good technique tend to peak in their late 20s anyways. Thiago is in his prime years right now. Modric didn't get any respect until he turned 29 (especially on this forum). It happened with Xavi in 2008, Modric in 2014, Thiago now, and it will happen with Frenkie too.

Not every CM has a Fabregas esque final pass. In fact, Frenkie is the face of this new generation of CM's. Press resistant players who are athletic and can carry the ball forward and have an engine. Look at the CM's coming through. Not many have a final pass in their locker or a good long ball.

Those kind of skills can be developed though. Frenkie is 23 and is still 5 years away from his peak football so he can develop those tools. The most important thing is he does the simple things well. The pause on the pass to suck in opponents, receiving on his far foot, orienting his body at a 180 degree angle, and always making himself available for the pass. He also tends to show personality on the pitch where he tries to stamp his authority on the ball. I remember Pirlo calling him the best midfielder in the world because of that. If you have the technique, the intelligence, and the personality you'll be fine.

Add in the fact he can break lines with his passing and dribbling, manouever within tight spaces and he has a good engine which allows him to press and cover, you already have the recipe for a fine CM. Of course he's still young and there's room for improvement. If he can work on his ball striking (shot, final pass, and long ball) he will be the complete CM.

I'm sure that over the years he'll learn to simplify his game more, by taking less touches on the ball and having better risk management when it comes to passing. I'm also sure that he'll develop a better final pass and long ball too.

Even then Modric doesn't do much of those either and he's mainly relied on for his press resistance. Kroos doesn't have much of a final pass either but he's the best in the world at switching the ball from flank to flank.

Frenkie is similar to the both of them. He reminds me of Modric a lot, but is closer to Kroos positionally. He's already won a UEFA midfielder of the year award, and he had 3 top teams fight for his signing. If the smartest minds in football were praising him and the top teams were vying for his signing, then there's a reason why.

Whatever though. End of the day, he'll be disrespected on here until he wins a CL or has an international trophy. Then the usual suspects will be quiet and talk about how they're such big fans. Rinse and repeat.

by danyjr Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:54 pm

Casciavit wrote:Central midfielders with good technique tend to peak in their late 20s anyways. Thiago is in his prime years right now. Modric didn't get any respect until he turned 29 (especially on this forum). It happened with Xavi in 2008, Modric in 2014, Thiago now, and it will happen with Frenkie too.

For every Modrić and Xavi there is a Wilshere and Verratti. So I think the sentence in bold should be read with a pinch of salt. In contrast players like Banega and Pirlo were good from a young age and continued with the same consistency for the rest of their careers. IMHO it is not that Xavi or Modrić bloomed per se, as much as they finally received the recognition they deserved because titles came their way or moved to a top team.

All I'm saying there are late bloomers and early bloomers in every position. Generally speaking there are far more cases of late-blooming strikers (centre forwards in particular) than midfielders. Intelligent players improve, and if they are technically good they can go further than others.

by Casciavit Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:05 pm

Verratti still has time, but he's been unlucky with injuries. Wilshere was unlucky with injuries and he played for Arsenal worst of both worlds. He was also less intelligent than the players we are talking about. He was still very talented though.

I agree that intelligence is the most important thing. However having intelligence + technique is what brings you to that upper level. Frenkie has both of those and he's quite athletic. As long as he doesn't get ruined by injuries, I just can't see him flopping.

He'll either learn to improve his influence in the final third, or he becomes so influential in the first two phases it won't matter if he doesn't improve that much in the final one. Plenty of top players have been like that.

I guess only time will tell lol.

by Doc Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:09 pm

There is a 3rd option: he becomes neither and is just a good midfielder, Nothing more, nothing less.

The Parejo's, the Bruno's, the Wijnaldum's of world football. No harm in tbh.

by Hapless_Hans Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:13 pm

Doc wrote:There is a 3rd option: he becomes neither and is just a good midfielder, Nothing more, nothing less.

The Parejo's, the Bruno's, the Wijnaldum's of world football. No harm in tbh.

Don't agree with Wijnaldum's inclusion here, how Wijnaldum has performed in this Liverpool team in the last 3 season has been absolutely immense, he's been a rook, a reliable strategic monster winning the midfield battle for the team, absolute world class stuff in many big games too.
Very underrated contribution, I'd say together with Mané he's been the cornerstone of the success of Klopp's system at Liverpool.

Apart from that, agree, most probably Frenkie will just simply be kind of ok.

by Doc Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:24 pm

I'm always hesitant in putting Wijnaldum in the upper echelons of midfielders but I cannot find any reason to disagree with how you describe him and his exploits at Pool.

Also, thank you for the 8-2.

by Casciavit Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:25 pm

This is GL you're either generational or shit. Hype and de-hype accordingly pls.

by Hapless_Hans Sat Sep 05, 2020 9:27 pm

You're very welcome.

by BarcaLearning Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:40 pm

Yes, GL doesnt know anything in between, its either WC or the best there is after a good game, and a flop or overrated flop after a bad one lol.

by Thimmy Sat Sep 05, 2020 10:42 pm

Casciavit wrote:This is GL you're either generational or shit. Hype and de-hype accordingly pls.

A bit relieved to see that I’m not the only one on here who’s aware of this Razz

by Myesyats Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:00 am

https://www.squawka.com/en/frenkie-de-jong-reminds-me-of-myself-says-andrea-pirlo/

Frenkie de Jong ‘reminds me of myself’, says Andrea Pirlo

“At the moment, for me, Frenkie de Jong is the best,” he told the Daily Mail. “He has the personality, the technique, everything to play in this position.’

“It’s the vision,” he added when asked if he reminds him of himself. “He knows the field and the movement of the other players. He is a very good player.”

by futbol Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:51 pm

Casciavit wrote:Central midfielders with good technique tend to peak in their late 20s anyways. Thiago is in his prime years right now. Modric didn't get any respect until he turned 29 (especially on this forum). It happened with Xavi in 2008, Modric in 2014, Thiago now, and it will happen with Frenkie too.

Not every CM has a Fabregas esque final pass. In fact, Frenkie is the face of this new generation of CM's. Press resistant players who are athletic and can carry the ball forward and have an engine. Look at the CM's coming through. Not many have a final pass in their locker or a good long ball.

Those kind of skills can be developed though. Frenkie is 23 and is still 5 years away from his peak football so he can develop those tools. The most important thing is he does the simple things well. The pause on the pass to suck in opponents, receiving on his far foot, orienting his body at a 180 degree angle, and always making himself available for the pass. He also tends to show personality on the pitch where he tries to stamp his authority on the ball. I remember Pirlo calling him the best midfielder in the world because of that. If you have the technique, the intelligence, and the personality you'll be fine.

Add in the fact he can break lines with his passing and dribbling, manouever within tight spaces and he has a good engine which allows him to press and cover, you already have the recipe for a fine CM. Of course he's still young and there's room for improvement. If he can work on his ball striking (shot, final pass, and long ball) he will be the complete CM.

I'm sure that over the years he'll learn to simplify his game more, by taking less touches on the ball and having better risk management when it comes to passing. I'm also sure that he'll develop a better final pass and long ball too.

Even then Modric doesn't do much of those either and he's mainly relied on for his press resistance. Kroos doesn't have much of a final pass either but he's the best in the world at switching the ball from flank to flank.

Frenkie is similar to the both of them. He reminds me of Modric a lot, but is closer to Kroos positionally. He's already won a UEFA midfielder of the year award, and he had 3 top teams fight for his signing. If the smartest minds in football were praising him and the top teams were vying for his signing, then there's a reason why.

Whatever though. End of the day, he'll be disrespected on here until he wins a CL or has an international trophy. Then the usual suspects will be quiet and talk about how they're such big fans. Rinse and repeat.

Xavi did not unlock any new ability in his late 20s, he was only put in a structured team with midfield focus. He played in his early 20s the same way he did in his 30s:

De Jong has no ability to execute difficult passes between the lines (Busquets), let alone final balls (Xavi). This was already apparent at Ajax and I said this ages ago. Also he can't play as the single pivot as he isn't good enough defensively. His long passes aren't at the level of Kroos or Xabi Alonso. He really is only good at 1 single aspect and that is being press resistant and bursting forward without a meaningful pass following afterwards.

I don't know why people hype up Thiago now. Bayern was the only physically prepared team in this Covid League and collectively outran everyone. They win the CL the same way if they swap Thiago and De Jong and Barca get 2-8ed the same way with Thiago in the team.

by Myesyats Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:18 pm

Then name who in your opinion are the best U23 CMs. hmm

by rincon Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:41 pm

Myesyats wrote:Then name who in your opinion are the best U23 CMs.

Bentancur and McKennie and its not even close :coffee:

by RealGunner Sun Sep 06, 2020 2:47 pm

Does anyone outside of Juve rate Bentancur? He is like Uruguayan Khedira but not as good. Never seen the appeal.

by rincon Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:05 pm

RealGunner wrote:Does anyone outside of Juve rate Bentancur? He is like Uruguayan Khedira but not as good. Never seen the appeal.

I thought my comment's sarcasm was clear Laughing

I've never seen a minute of McKennie.

Bentancur is good though, he isn't the most technically gifted player but he is an all-rounder that every team would find useful.

It's not an accident that at only 23yo he has 100 matches for Juve and 30 for Uruguay where he has been a starter since 21.

He was quite average when he joined but has improved noticeably the last 2 seasons.

by rincon Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:06 pm

De Jong is an obvious pick to be among the best U23 midfielders, no doubt he will be one of the best overall as he grows.

by RealGunner Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:08 pm

Oh no my comment was unrelated.

McKennie is a star. Great buy.

by Doc Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:11 pm

Would not say he has no ability to execute difficult passes between the lines (Busquets), let alone final balls (Xavi) but the comparisons between himself and Xavi are wild af.

by RealGunner Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:48 pm

This is what you call an unreal pass. Via Doc's twitter account

WHAT A PASS BY XHAKA pic.twitter.com/9XTftgpRjg
— Doc (@DocAFC_) September 6, 2020

by Myesyats Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:23 pm

It was a clearance lol

I have not seen one name mentioned who could be >Frenkie, says it all

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