The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3
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Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3
by guest_07 Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:45 am
Assalamu'alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh to Muslim
& Good day to the rest
The 'Avengers: Endgame' Plot-Hole
Is Not Really A Plot-Hole At All (Spoilers)
Source
& Good day to the rest
The 'Avengers: Endgame' Plot-Hole
Is Not Really A Plot-Hole At All (Spoilers)
Source
- Spoiler:
In the aftermath of Avengers: Endgame's mind-boggling record-shattering $1.2 billion opening weekend, there have been rumblings from some journalists and fans claiming a big plot-hole exists in the film. But the fact is, this so-called "plot-hole" is nothing of the sort, and paying careful attention to the film's events will reward viewers by explaining why the supposed plot-hole actually makes perfect sense and is part of the story after all.
But consider this a loud warning, I've thus far avoided even hinting at the nature of the supposed plot-hole or which character(s) it involves, but the rest of this article will dive into details that include major spoilers about Endgame's plot and about the ending of the film. So if you've not seen the movie yet, then I urge you not to read any further.
One quick note before we start. A plot-hole isn't just something you don't understand in a film. Nor is a plot-hole just a failure of a film to literally show and explain every single detail to you, rather than give you the pieces and let you figure it out yourself because you are presumably capable of doing so. People too often use the term "plot-hole" for minor continuity errors or dangling plot threads that don't actually substantively change the outcome or the main plot. Sometimes they mistakenly use "plot-hole" in reference to characters having better options and simply not choosing those options (for example: "It's a plot-hole that they could've just done X or Y and it would've ended the threat at the start"). None of those things are really "plot-holes," though, and if a reasonable and consistent explanation exists that fits into the film and resolves the supposed problem, then the existence of that explanation means it's not a plot-hole.
Now, if you're still here, then read on to find out why the supposed plot-hole in Avengers: Endgame is not a plot hole at all...
It took less than a day for some outlets to start running "the end of Endgame makes no sense" articles, and for a lot of fans to argue about why the film violates its own carefully constructed rules governing time travel. These criticisms will no doubt spread and grow as the days go on and more people are willing to talk about spoilers, so let me just nip it all in the bud right now by explaining how it all does make sense.
Avengers: Endgame sees the heroes traveling through time to various moments we witnessed in previous MCU movies. In doing so, they are obviously interfering with and even altering certain events that transpired in the past. However, this doesn't actually change the past for the MCU's timeline. The film establishes very simple rules to help understand why the heroes' actions don't change what happened in earlier films or affect the heroes' own timeline, so let's those rules that really quickly.
First of all, when the heroes go back in time, the moment they affect events in a way that really significantly changes the course of events and alters the future, it creates a divergent timeline. This becomes an alternate reality, in other words, separate from the original timeline of events. So there is still the original timeline that proceeds exactly as we all witnessed it during previous MCU movies, and then there is separately an alternate reality from the changed moment onward into a changed future.
So the heroes are told upfront that they don't have to worry about altering their own timeline and future by changing the past, since it will become alternate realities instead. But they are also trying hard not to do anything that causes significant changes to those alternate realities, since doing so could result in horrible outcomes for the people living in those alternate realities. This is why, after they've collected the Infinity Stones, the heroes have to eventually time travel again and put the stones back at the exact moment they were taken, to allow those timelines to continue forward uninterrupted and as unchanged as possible.
So, that's why at the very end of Endgame, Captain America takes all of the Infinity Stones -- plus Thor's hammer -- back in time again, to visit those same various timelines and put the stones and hammer back where they belong. Are you with me so far? Good. Because this is where things start to get more complicated.
The supposed plot-hole starts here, when Captain America is sent back in time to replace everything the Avengers took from the past. When Hulk, Falcon, and Bucky are waiting for Captain America to return, he doesn't show back up in the time travel platform device they've set up. Instead, after a moment, Bucky notices an elderly Cap sitting on a bench nearby, waiting for them. And we learn that after he successfully put all the stones and the hammer back where they belong, Cap decided to go back to 1940 and have a life with his long-lost love Peggy Carter. They lived together and got married, and now Cap is an old man.
Cool side note: If Cap was around 30+ years old when he time traveled to 1940, and if we assume he went back to 1946 so that the war would be over, then that means the elderly Cap we see on the bench must be at least 108 years old, since Endgame takes place 5 years after Infinity War, which was set in 2018 (the date is clarified by Tony Stark's remark in Infinity War that the events of the first Avengers movie took place 6 years earlier, and confirmed during the part of Endgame set in the Battle of New York it specifically says it's the year 2012). Of course, the super-soldier serum in Cap's veins made him heal quickly and he was immune to most illnesses, so it also probably helped him live a longer life and look a little bit younger than his real age, which is why he looked old but not north of 100 at the end of Endgame.
But wait a minute, the complaints say -- how can Cap be in the original main timeline as an old man? If he went back in time and stayed there, living a life with Peggy, that changes the past in some important ways, including the fact Peggy had originally gotten married to someone else and had two kids. That's a pretty major change to history, you'd think.
Which is to say, by going back and staying in the past, Captain America must've changed the timeline and thus created a divergent timeline. Right?
Well, it turns out even if the answer to that is a resounding "yes," it doesn't matter. Because the film established something ELSE about time-travel, in a very important moment that taught Cap everything he needed to know to pull off his magic reappearance as an old man in the original timeline.
Remember when Cap, Iron Man, and Ant-Man go back to 2012 and the events of the first Avengers film to retrieve the Tesseract, and it all goes wrong? At that point, Cap and Iron Man have a discussion and it's revealed that since they are traveling into the past rather than the future, they can use their hand-held Quantum Realm devices to pick a different time (the 1970s) in the past to time travel again. They even pick the precise location they want to travel back to. They simply type in the new date and coordinates, and poof! They vanish, traveling back to the new destination.
That's where Captain America sees Peggy Carter by accident, and starts thinking about her. This is surely the moment when the idea enters his head that he can possibly eventually go back and spend time with her. And again, the film clearly establishes this additional special rule allowing time travelers to choose a different date in the past and travel there, without need for the big platform and someone running a machine to pull them into the future. Notice, too, that during this part of his mission, Cap only needs to grab a couple of vials of Pym Particles, but instead the film takes pains to show us he actually winds up grabbing FOUR vials -- meaning he has extras that nobody else knows about. This is relevant later, so keep it in mind.
So what we know is going into the past can be done from any point in time, using the handheld Quantum Realm devices, while traveling back into the future again requires the use of the big platform and machine. Cap knows this too, and it's how he figured out what to do to have his life with Peggy and then return to his own original timeline again.
Cap dropped off all of the Infinity Stones and Thor's hammer, went back to the 1940s and lived a good life with Peggy Carter, and then stayed in that timeline all the way up until some time AFTER that day when the Hulk sent him back to drop everything off. By living in the alternate timeline to a point past the date he began his time travel, Cap was then able to use his Quantum device to send himself BACK IN TIME without need for the big platform and machine, and he could even pick the precise spot where he wanted to arrive -- namely, that hill with the park bench, right beside the spot where Hulk, Falcon, and Bucky would be waiting for him. Or maybe he jumped back to that morning, or the day before, to spend a little time catching up on this original timeline. The point is, he used the handheld device and the special rule about traveling backward in time to arrive at the same moment there on that hill, where his friends would be waiting for him.
Now we come back to my earlier point about the film explicitly showing us Cap grabbed four vials of Pym Particles while in the 1970s, after seeing Peggy Carter. When Cap was being sent back in time to drop off the various stones and Thor's hammer, they no doubt gave him enough Pym Particles for his Quantum device to let him travel to all of the various timelines to do the job. But Cap already had his own secret alternate plans, and those plans required him to be able to make TWO EXTRA time jumps -- one to the 1940s, and the other to the bench on the hill the day the Hulk, Falcon, and Bucky were waiting for him to return.
So Cap got to spend his life with his long-lost love, Peggy Carter, without messing up any of the original timeline. And even in that alternate timeline, there was a different Cap who fought in World War II and then fell into the ice and vanished, who would also eventually be revived in the 2000s, go on to join the Avengers, and help save the world from Thanos.
Which all demonstrates Captain America reappearing on that bench is not a plot-hole. The film specifically takes time to explain how time-travel works and why nobody actually changes the main timeline's history; that a new divergent timeline is created by changes; that anyone who goes into the past can travel around to additional points in the past; that Cap figured out with Iron Man that additional time travel throughout the past was possible with just the handheld Quantum device; and that Cap took extra Pym Particles, thus having some extras if he needed them for his private plan to go back in time and live with Peggy.
The filmmakers established all of those things clearly enough, and it all lines up to explain what happened. But the film is so complex and there are so many moving parts, it took me seeing it a second time for it all to fall into place for me. Once you see it, though, it's obvious and isn't really complicated. In fact, now that I understand it, when I watch the film it stands out like a big neon sign hinting at what Cap is going to do and how the film will probably end.
Considering we've all spent months speculating about whether Cap would get to have his dance with Peggy, we should've seen it coming as soon as Captain American and Iron Man discussed using their Quantum devices to go back further in time, and when Cap saw Peggy moments after grabbing those extra Pym Particles (which the camera even lingered on for a moment).
That is all a solid explanation that fits perfectly within the context of any argument asserting Captain America shouldn't have been on that bench in the main timeline because any life he lived in the past had to be in a divergent timeline. Anyone who says Cap was in a different timeline in the past, therefore, should see how this explanation proves there isn't a plot-hole since a consistent, relatively simple explanation exists which seems directly implied by several elements in the film.
Now, that said, there is a second interpretation of the film to consider. Some viewers could say the film's time travel rules do NOT establish the existence of divergent timelines based solely on changes to the past, since there is some potential vague implication that perhaps alternate timelines only come into existence if one or more Infinity Stones remain missing from a particular point time -- the sudden absence of a stone causing a new divergent timeline to branch off from the original timeline, because the stones work together to control the flow of space-time. In this interpretation, then, alternate timelines only exist if one or more stones that the Avengers took were to never be returned to their original moment in time. But since Cap did return all of the stones back to the moment they were taken, no divergent timelines could remain in existence, and they'd simply fold back into the original timeline again.
If that's how someone interprets the rules of time in the film, though, it still means no plot-hole exists for Captain America living in the past. If Cap puts all of the stones back and ensures no alternate timelines exist anymore, then that means when he goes to the 1940s and lives with Peggy Carter, he'd simply be in the original timeline and would remain there as long as he doesn't remove any Infinity Stones again. In that case, he would just need to avoid anyone identifying who he really is, take an assumed name, and live with Peggy -- presumably, he would just dye his hair and assume the identity of one of the soldiers who died in World War II but whom he and Peggy would pretend was one of the men rescued by Captain America (which is who Peggy claims her husband was, in a video interview of Peggy seen in Captain America: The Winter Solider, although no name for her husband is given).
While it might be tricky for Cap and Peggy to pull this off, remember it was the 1940s, no electronic record-keeping really existed, and even most drivers licenses didn't even include photographs. Cap was famous, so he'd have to change his appearance enough to avoid easy detection, but as long as he kept a low profile it should be easy enough to imagine someone of his intelligence and training could do it. Peggy being a spy means she'd also be more than capable of making it work.
That said, I don't agree with this interpretation, since the film clearly states you cannot change the past and thus affect the future -- and if Peggy originally married someone else and had two children (as the official MCU canon says she did), then Cap marrying her instead would definitely change the past and totally alter the future. Also, we know some major changes to the past DID in fact take place in some of the timelines the Avengers visited: there is a timeline in which Loki got the Tesseract and escaped imprisonment immediately after the events of the 2012 film The Avengers; and there is a timeline in which Thanos, Nebula, Gamora, and Thanos' entire army and Black Order left and never returned (since they were all erased from existence by Iron Man in Endgame). Those were huge alterations to historic events, which would undeniably have major repercussions on the future and completely change everything that transpired.
So those alternate timelines must exist, unless when Cap put the stones back in place, all of those alternate realities simply vanished, killing everyone in them -- which surely isn't what Cap did, and isn't what the Ancient One meant or intended when she explained how the stones work and that she didn't want her own reality to be destroyed if the Hulk failed to live up to his promise to return the stone. All of which tells me any interpretation claiming no divergent timelines actually exist is flawed and leaves major questions unresolved in any consistent way, whereas my original explanation fits everything in the film and resolves plot-hole claims.
It's true that at the end of the film, the Hulk tells Cap to be sure to put all of the stones back at the exact moments they were taken, otherwise it could create alternate realities where things could go badly. But he's not saying that alternate realities will only exist IF Cap fails to return the stones -- he's saying that failure to return the stones would mean things would go badly in any alternate realities that do already exist. It's a question of whether things are basically back to normal in those timelines, or things go badly due to lack of the stones. See? Once again, the original interpretation of time rules can fit with everything. And with the existence of a clear explanation that fits it all, that's how we should interpret the film -- especially since (to beat a dead horse) the film hints pretty strongly that this interpretation is intended and seems obvious in retrospect.
Avengers: Endgame is a wonderfully complex story that, contrary to any complaints or claims otherwise, does a great job setting up the rules for its time travel and then sticking to them. And the deeper we dive into the details, the more obvious it becomes that the film rewards multiple viewings with new insights and surprises. Cap's secret plan to have his dance with Peggy is just one such reward -- another is, as Sean Gerber points out over at Marvel Studio News, a possible reference to Prince Namor (aka the Submariner).
So no, there isn't a major time travel plothole in Avengers: Endgame. Captain America's appearance on that bench does indeed make sense, and Endgame did the work to set it up and explain how it was possible. I didn't see it at first, and was among those confused by how it happened, but it only took a second viewing to confirm it was -- like so much else -- inevitable.
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Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3
by rincon Mon May 06, 2019 6:23 pm
Freeza wrote:M99 wrote:
- Spoiler:
Is it a plothole? He lives with Peggy in an alternate timeline, how does he show up old in the main timeline? If he came back to the main timeline after growing old in the alt timeline, he would have reappeared in the machine not where he was sitting.
It is confusing tbh.
- Spoiler:
I think there's two versions Captain America's in the current timeline. The one who went back in time, and the one stuck in the ice.
I think that's the reason why we never see Peggy Carter's husband in any of the photos on her bed in the hospital. So timetraveling Steve is actually her husband. She even says "none of us can go back (in time)" which makes it seem like it was a nod to her knowing he went back in time in the future.
It makes sense he can do this without causing a paradox, because the one in the ice won't be brought back until the other one is too old to be recognized.
- Spoiler:
- Off the mark my man. The movie is very explicit in telling us how time travelling works. Changing the past does not change your future. No loops, no paradoxes. You live your time linearly no matter what. You go back in time, you create an alternate timeline, it cannot affect your own.
Cap went back in time, gave all the stones back, lived his life with Peggy in what is now an alternate timeline, then jumped back to the OG time and gave Sam the shield.
He doesn't need that pad at all to appear in that timeline, as we see all through the movie. That's just to synchronize with him so that he can be brought back at the exact moment they want him to be back. But like Hulk says, he blew right past his marker.
Just like they travel to every other timeline without appearing on a pad, he does the same in the end and chills at the bench.
I thought the movie was very clear about this, but anyway they asked one of the Russo's in an interview and he said as much.
Last edited by rincon on Mon May 06, 2019 6:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3
by rincon Mon May 06, 2019 6:25 pm
Freeza wrote:
Ffs!!!
Can’t wait
This trailer got my hype from -10 to 100. I'm glad that they were being sneaky with the marketing to avoid spoiling endgame. I had no interest at all before, now it looks more like what I want to see.
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Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3
by Freeza Mon May 06, 2019 6:33 pm
rincon wrote:Freeza wrote:M99 wrote:
- Spoiler:
Is it a plothole? He lives with Peggy in an alternate timeline, how does he show up old in the main timeline? If he came back to the main timeline after growing old in the alt timeline, he would have reappeared in the machine not where he was sitting.
It is confusing tbh.
- Spoiler:
I think there's two versions Captain America's in the current timeline. The one who went back in time, and the one stuck in the ice.
I think that's the reason why we never see Peggy Carter's husband in any of the photos on her bed in the hospital. So timetraveling Steve is actually her husband. She even says "none of us can go back (in time)" which makes it seem like it was a nod to her knowing he went back in time in the future.
It makes sense he can do this without causing a paradox, because the one in the ice won't be brought back until the other one is too old to be recognized.
- Spoiler:
Cap went back in time, gave all the stones back, lived his life with Peggy in what is now an alternate timeline, then jumped back to the OG time and gave Sam the shield.
He doesn't need that pad at all to appear in that timeline, as we see all through the movie. That's just to synchronize with him so that he can be brought back at the exact moment they want him to be back. But like Hulk says, he blew right past his marker.
Just like they travel to every other timeline without appearing on a pad, he does the same in the end and chills at the bench.
I thought the movie was very clear about this, but anyway they asked one of the Russo's in an interview and he said as much.
- Spoiler:
- Who's to say we aren't living in a timeline where Steve Rogers is with Peggy when another Cap was in the ice though?
We were shown in the film how it was possible for two Captain American's to be in the same realm. So it's not out of the question to suggest they've been together in this universe too. It just seems weird to me how she'd be sick in a hospital and not have a picture of anything but her kids. Might just me putting too much unintended value and intention into the set design though.
I can see the other thing happening also though. Guess he just transported to the original timeline after he'd spent it in another.
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Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3
by rincon Mon May 06, 2019 6:36 pm
Freeza wrote:rincon wrote:Freeza wrote:
- Spoiler:
I think there's two versions Captain America's in the current timeline. The one who went back in time, and the one stuck in the ice.
I think that's the reason why we never see Peggy Carter's husband in any of the photos on her bed in the hospital. So timetraveling Steve is actually her husband. She even says "none of us can go back (in time)" which makes it seem like it was a nod to her knowing he went back in time in the future.
It makes sense he can do this without causing a paradox, because the one in the ice won't be brought back until the other one is too old to be recognized.
- Spoiler:
Cap went back in time, gave all the stones back, lived his life with Peggy in what is now an alternate timeline, then jumped back to the OG time and gave Sam the shield.
He doesn't need that pad at all to appear in that timeline, as we see all through the movie. That's just to synchronize with him so that he can be brought back at the exact moment they want him to be back. But like Hulk says, he blew right past his marker.
Just like they travel to every other timeline without appearing on a pad, he does the same in the end and chills at the bench.
I thought the movie was very clear about this, but anyway they asked one of the Russo's in an interview and he said as much.
- Spoiler:
We were shown in the film how it was possible for two Captain American's to be in the same realm. So it's not out of the question to suggest they've been together in this universe too. It just seems weird to me how she'd be sick in a hospital and not have a picture of anything but her kids. Might just me putting too much unintended value and intention into the set design though.
I can see the other thing happening also though. Guess he just transported to the original timeline after he'd spent it in another.
- Spoiler:
- Joe Russo is to say
Yes what you say can happen. It just has nothing to do with Endgame's end. It would be another CA from another unseen timeline jumping into ours.
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Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3
by Freeza Mon May 06, 2019 6:41 pm
rincon wrote:Freeza wrote:rincon wrote:
- Spoiler:
Cap went back in time, gave all the stones back, lived his life with Peggy in what is now an alternate timeline, then jumped back to the OG time and gave Sam the shield.
He doesn't need that pad at all to appear in that timeline, as we see all through the movie. That's just to synchronize with him so that he can be brought back at the exact moment they want him to be back. But like Hulk says, he blew right past his marker.
Just like they travel to every other timeline without appearing on a pad, he does the same in the end and chills at the bench.
I thought the movie was very clear about this, but anyway they asked one of the Russo's in an interview and he said as much.
- Spoiler:
We were shown in the film how it was possible for two Captain American's to be in the same realm. So it's not out of the question to suggest they've been together in this universe too. It just seems weird to me how she'd be sick in a hospital and not have a picture of anything but her kids. Might just me putting too much unintended value and intention into the set design though.
I can see the other thing happening also though. Guess he just transported to the original timeline after he'd spent it in another.
- Spoiler:
Yes what you say can happen. It just has nothing to do with Endgame's end. It would be another CA from another unseen timeline jumping into ours.
- Spoiler:
- Yeah I guess I was confused by Cap being old at the end while having time travel ability.
It's a trope in time travel fiction that you can go back in time, live your life in your actual timeline and then meet the ones you know at a date. I thought that was they were going for, since it's happened before in other works of fiction afaik.
Guess I was wrong about the initial timeline. Always felt like something was off.
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Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3
by Freeza Fri May 10, 2019 1:38 am
https://www.thewrap.com/michael-rooker-king-shark-suicide-squad/
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Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3
by El Gunner Sat May 11, 2019 8:46 pm
I did not like the whole going back into the past middle act, but the final fight sequence, as ever with the Russo's, is worth it.
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Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3
by Freeza Mon May 13, 2019 11:34 pm
Seems like the screenwriters agree with my initial theory
https://nordic.ign.com/news/25131/avengers-endgame-screenwriters-say-captain-america-is-the-fa
Really funny they seem to disagree.
https://nordic.ign.com/news/25131/avengers-endgame-screenwriters-say-captain-america-is-the-fa
Really funny they seem to disagree.
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Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3
by Freeza Fri May 17, 2019 1:56 am
HOLY FUCKING SHIT...
Robert Pattinson is most likely going to be Batman
get the fuck in here
https://variety.com/2019/film/news/robert-pattinson-batman-matt-reeves-bruce-wayne-dc-comics-1203125473/
Robert Pattinson is most likely going to be Batman
get the fuck in here
https://variety.com/2019/film/news/robert-pattinson-batman-matt-reeves-bruce-wayne-dc-comics-1203125473/
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Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3
by RealGunner Fri May 17, 2019 2:00 am
Interesting.
You rate him?
You rate him?
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Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3
by Freeza Fri May 17, 2019 2:03 am
RealGunner wrote:Interesting.
You rate him?
I rate him so fucking highly as an actor. He's absolutely incredible. He's on that Christian Bale level for me. He's a lot farther ahead than Bale when he was cast.
Imagine being cast as Batman and the lead in a Chris Nolan film the same year
Hard to top that
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Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3
by RealGunner Fri May 17, 2019 2:07 am
Yea if Reeves and Nolan both rate him then he has to be good.
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Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3
by Freeza Fri May 17, 2019 2:12 am
RealGunner wrote:Yea if Reeves and Nolan both rate him then he has to be good.
And he's so popular with a lot of indie directors also. He's done films with these:
James Gray
Claire Denis
David Michod
Robert Eggers
Ciro Guerra
Cronenberg
Joanna Hogg
He's won over a lot of the hot indie directors through the years.
Can't wait to watch High Life, which is apparently way out there.
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Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3
by Freeza Fri May 17, 2019 2:15 am
I'm also really hopeful of the script.
Pattinson has already been famous around the world and been burned by bad franchise movies. This leads me to believe the script is interesting, because his entire filmography since 2013 has been interesting.
Pattinson has already been famous around the world and been burned by bad franchise movies. This leads me to believe the script is interesting, because his entire filmography since 2013 has been interesting.
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Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3
by RealGunner Tue May 28, 2019 10:36 pm
This is so good
I watched the wrong Avengers pic.twitter.com/ocLN3BkG4P
— Torreira!! (@Xahraddeen_) May 27, 2019
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Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3
by Freeza Fri May 31, 2019 8:06 pm
Sounds like Battinson is 100% now
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Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3
by Kaladin Thu Jun 06, 2019 12:15 am
Had me in stitches
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Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3
by Valkyrja Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:50 am
I love the MCU but hate everything about what they did to Spider-Man
The guy with the most famous of story, with by far the best supporting cast in comics along with DC's big 2, brought down as some kind of Iron Boy wannabe instead of building up to his own legacy
I love the idea of teamups and MCU's model but they really should have went with a different take on Spidey, who has always been a solo guy who is used to learning things the hard way now can just have a call at Tony Stark or Happy and get that amazing next-gen Stark tech suit and live up to Downey's name GTFO
The guy with the most famous of story, with by far the best supporting cast in comics along with DC's big 2, brought down as some kind of Iron Boy wannabe instead of building up to his own legacy
I love the idea of teamups and MCU's model but they really should have went with a different take on Spidey, who has always been a solo guy who is used to learning things the hard way now can just have a call at Tony Stark or Happy and get that amazing next-gen Stark tech suit and live up to Downey's name GTFO
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Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3
by Freeza Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:26 pm
I fully disagree.
Homecoming is the only spider-man film that’s still watchable
Homecoming is the only spider-man film that’s still watchable
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Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3
by Valkyrja Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:32 am
@Freeza
I liked Homecoming and I think I will enjoy FFH too.
What I'm trying to say is that Spidey should be closer to Netflix' ex-Defenders Daredevil, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, Punisher etc than to MCU's heavy hitters Iron Man Cap Thor. In a perfect world he would be the link between the two groups imo
He is a kid that gets amazing powers and learns about responsibility following the death of his uncle, makes himself a spandex suit and puts a shift or two on the streets of NYC, always with his mask on. He should never be Iron Man's Robin, he does the things he thinks are right, makes mistakes and learns from them the hard way.
from my pov MCU missed a great deal by not making Spidey a bit different from the rest of the avengers, and closer to his comic counterpart. It doesn't even feel like Spiderman, and it's a shame because Tom Holland is by far the best Peter Parker ever
I liked Homecoming and I think I will enjoy FFH too.
What I'm trying to say is that Spidey should be closer to Netflix' ex-Defenders Daredevil, Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, Punisher etc than to MCU's heavy hitters Iron Man Cap Thor. In a perfect world he would be the link between the two groups imo
He is a kid that gets amazing powers and learns about responsibility following the death of his uncle, makes himself a spandex suit and puts a shift or two on the streets of NYC, always with his mask on. He should never be Iron Man's Robin, he does the things he thinks are right, makes mistakes and learns from them the hard way.
from my pov MCU missed a great deal by not making Spidey a bit different from the rest of the avengers, and closer to his comic counterpart. It doesn't even feel like Spiderman, and it's a shame because Tom Holland is by far the best Peter Parker ever
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Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3
by Valkyrja Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:33 am
Tomorrow I am going to FFH. Will return with a short review afterwards
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Re: The Official Comicbook Movies Thread: Part 3
by McLewis Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:32 pm
Strangely enough, I'm just not pumped up for FFH. It's not a Day 1 movie for me as it stands. I'm sure that will change at some point, but right now, I'm utterly ambivalent to it. It looks good, but nothing about it has me running to go see it.
I think I'm still fatigued from Endgame honestly.
I think I'm still fatigued from Endgame honestly.
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