Transfer Rumours V6

messixaviesta wrote:

alexjanosik wrote:
That's easy to answer.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/football-leaks-lionel-messi-s-100-million-euro-contract-a-1187549.html

Probably the correct reason. It is an outrageous contract and frankly one that he does not deserve. Especially, considering that CR has been outperforming him in the big CL games and led Madrid to back to back trophies.

For Messi to deserve 100 mil, he has to deliver every single time in the CL knockouts and not go missing.

alex, thats harsh. Cristiano does have a few things over Messi such as more power, better off the ball movement, more athleticism and maybe as you said in recent times more UCL decisive moments. However 80% of Cristiano's game is about goal scoring while Messi is so much more than that. Day after day Messi runs the game from start to finish at a consistent level of excellence. His passing, vision and dribbling ability are light years ahead of Cristiano's. Over the years he has even become a better free kick taker than Cristiano.

In the Pep Guardiola days Barcelona were the world's best team. In addition to Messi and the guidance of Pep we had arguably the greatest ever midfield of XavIesta and top quality in pretty much every position. Since then what has happened? From the world's best team we have essentially become a one man team. Even neutrals now say that Messi has been carrying Barca for a long time. We both can agree that Cristiano has had much more quality alongside him in the last few months than Messi.

As for Messi getting such a high salary it doesn't really matter whether you or I like it or not. The truth about this world and especially football is that when you perform at such a high level day in day out like Messi and Cristiano do then the whole world sits at your feet. 99% of your demands are met and money is obviously high on that list.

I speak entirely from the perspective of value for money.
We have 2 players. Now a player's worth can be measured in terms of the impact on trophies and in terms of the money they generate as the club's icon.

In terms of impact on trophies, CR has outperformed Messi over the past couple of years. We can argue that Messi is the better player. But thats not the point. CR has had a bigger impact in winning trophies(3 CL out of 4).
More importantly, the world at large believes it, as evidenced by him winning 4 of the last 5 B'Dor.
CR is just as big a money spinner for Madrid as Messi is for us. In fact, I believe CR has more marketing potential for Madrid.

So when out of the 2 parameters, CR at the very least equals Messi, how do we justify paying Messi twice what CR earns.

I also dont think Messi has been carrying us. Contrary to perception, we still have a very good team. Just play a more pragmatic way under Valverde. We have the best defense in Europe. A midfield which shields the defense well. It is not Xaviesta level but with Busquets and Rakitic in it, still one of the best in the business. Messi has the creative burden but I dont agree we are a one man team.

I think his CL performances do deserve scrutiny especially when he eats up 1/6th of our revenue. That is stupendous and for that kind of money, I expect performances in CL knockouts. Else, he needs to accept a salary that is in line with what his rival is paid.

From the value of money perspective though CR has maybe 2 years left of top football (in fact many of us believed him to be done in December) whereas Messi is 2 years younger. You definitely want to pay bigger bucks to someone who has a longer lifespan left at this point in their careers.

Also while CR has been more decisive in the CL recently, Messi has been the same in the league, often winning us games entirely by his contribution.

alexjanosik wrote:

messixaviesta wrote:

alexjanosik wrote:
That's easy to answer.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/football-leaks-lionel-messi-s-100-million-euro-contract-a-1187549.html

Probably the correct reason. It is an outrageous contract and frankly one that he does not deserve. Especially, considering that CR has been outperforming him in the big CL games and led Madrid to back to back trophies.

For Messi to deserve 100 mil, he has to deliver every single time in the CL knockouts and not go missing.

alex, thats harsh. Cristiano does have a few things over Messi such as more power, better off the ball movement, more athleticism and maybe as you said in recent times more UCL decisive moments. However 80% of Cristiano's game is about goal scoring while Messi is so much more than that. Day after day Messi runs the game from start to finish at a consistent level of excellence. His passing, vision and dribbling ability are light years ahead of Cristiano's. Over the years he has even become a better free kick taker than Cristiano.

In the Pep Guardiola days Barcelona were the world's best team. In addition to Messi and the guidance of Pep we had arguably the greatest ever midfield of XavIesta and top quality in pretty much every position. Since then what has happened? From the world's best team we have essentially become a one man team. Even neutrals now say that Messi has been carrying Barca for a long time. We both can agree that Cristiano has had much more quality alongside him in the last few months than Messi.

As for Messi getting such a high salary it doesn't really matter whether you or I like it or not. The truth about this world and especially football is that when you perform at such a high level day in day out like Messi and Cristiano do then the whole world sits at your feet. 99% of your demands are met and money is obviously high on that list.

I speak entirely from the perspective of value for money.
We have 2 players. Now a player's worth can be measured in terms of the impact on trophies and in terms of the money they generate as the club's icon.

In terms of impact on trophies, CR has outperformed Messi over the past couple of years. We can argue that Messi is the better player. But thats not the point. CR has had a bigger impact in winning trophies(3 CL out of 4).
More importantly, the world at large believes it, as evidenced by him winning 4 of the last 5 B'Dor.
CR is just as big a money spinner for Madrid as Messi is for us. In fact, I believe CR has more marketing potential for Madrid.

So when out of the 2 parameters, CR at the very least equals Messi, how do we justify paying Messi twice what CR earns.

I also dont think Messi has been carrying us. Contrary to perception, we still have a very good team. Just play a more pragmatic way under Valverde. We have the best defense in Europe. A midfield which shields the defense well. It is not Xaviesta level but with Busquets and Rakitic in it, still one of the best in the business. Messi has the creative burden but I dont agree we are a one man team.

I think his CL performances do deserve scrutiny especially when he eats up 1/6th of our revenue. That is stupendous and for that kind of money, I expect performances in CL knockouts. Else, he needs to accept a salary that is in line with what his rival is paid.

Interesting reply. Agree to some extent.

When you say Cristiano has done more in UCL knockouts recently let's study that point more carefully. Today everyone is going gaga over Madrid. See how the 2014 and 2016 finals were won. Did Cristiano win any of them? No both were won due to a few factors but none bigger than luck. Even a neutral would agree that Atletico should have won at least one of those finals on the overall balance of play. If Madrid don't win both those finals then do they become that great and does Cristiano become that great? I have gone on record to say that Madrid's 2016 victory was the luckiest UCL victory I have ever known, surpassing even Chelsea's in 2012. The 2017 final win can be directly attributed to the confidence generated from those two wins in addition to a lot more luck going Madrid's way and it was the first time that Cristiano produced a man of the match display in a UCL final. Now consider the teams that knocked us out in 2016 and 2017 - Atletico Madrid and Juventus. Atletico in 2016 is the most deserving team not to win the UCL. Juventus in 2017 were the best team in the UCL until they self imploded at half time in the final. My point here is that in both those seasons we lost to teams that could and/or should have won the tournaments.

Marketing potential of Cristiano is more? Let it be. They are different people. I am completely fine with Messi not behaving like Cristiano on and off the pitch.

This perception of one man team has irritated me a lot. In fact some people even try to keep saying that Pep's team did that well because of Messi. It's ridiculous to say the least. Messi was just one major factor in what was one of the best teams ever. As for now I can agree with that perception more because if the creative burden of a team is on one player you could say he runs the team.

Lastly are you really saying that Cristiano is aware that Messi is paid double of him and is not complaining???

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Also while CR has been more decisive in the CL recently, Messi has been the same in the league, often winning us games entirely by his contribution.

Even in Madrid's best ever recent season in 2016-17 we beat them on their ground. Even under Tata Martino in 2013-14 we beat Madrid home and away. These things are easily forgotten due to Madrid's immense recent success in UCL. Lionel Messi is almost surely the greatest El Classico player ever.

messixaviesta wrote:

alexjanosik wrote:

messixaviesta wrote:


alex, thats harsh. Cristiano does have a few things over Messi such as more power, better off the ball movement, more athleticism and maybe as you said in recent times more UCL decisive moments. However 80% of Cristiano's game is about goal scoring while Messi is so much more than that. Day after day Messi runs the game from start to finish at a consistent level of excellence. His passing, vision and dribbling ability are light years ahead of Cristiano's. Over the years he has even become a better free kick taker than Cristiano.

In the Pep Guardiola days Barcelona were the world's best team. In addition to Messi and the guidance of Pep we had arguably the greatest ever midfield of XavIesta and top quality in pretty much every position. Since then what has happened? From the world's best team we have essentially become a one man team. Even neutrals now say that Messi has been carrying Barca for a long time. We both can agree that Cristiano has had much more quality alongside him in the last few months than Messi.

As for Messi getting such a high salary it doesn't really matter whether you or I like it or not. The truth about this world and especially football is that when you perform at such a high level day in day out like Messi and Cristiano do then the whole world sits at your feet. 99% of your demands are met and money is obviously high on that list.

I speak entirely from the perspective of value for money.
We have 2 players. Now a player's worth can be measured in terms of the impact on trophies and in terms of the money they generate as the club's icon.

In terms of impact on trophies, CR has outperformed Messi over the past couple of years. We can argue that Messi is the better player. But thats not the point. CR has had a bigger impact in winning trophies(3 CL out of 4).
More importantly, the world at large believes it, as evidenced by him winning 4 of the last 5 B'Dor.
CR is just as big a money spinner for Madrid as Messi is for us. In fact, I believe CR has more marketing potential for Madrid.

So when out of the 2 parameters, CR at the very least equals Messi, how do we justify paying Messi twice what CR earns.

I also dont think Messi has been carrying us. Contrary to perception, we still have a very good team. Just play a more pragmatic way under Valverde. We have the best defense in Europe. A midfield which shields the defense well. It is not Xaviesta level but with Busquets and Rakitic in it, still one of the best in the business. Messi has the creative burden but I dont agree we are a one man team.

I think his CL performances do deserve scrutiny especially when he eats up 1/6th of our revenue. That is stupendous and for that kind of money, I expect performances in CL knockouts. Else, he needs to accept a salary that is in line with what his rival is paid.

Interesting reply. Agree to some extent.

When you say Cristiano has done more in UCL knockouts recently let's study that point more carefully. Today everyone is going gaga over Madrid. See how the 2014 and 2016 finals were won. Did Cristiano win any of them? No both were won due to a few factors but none bigger than luck. Even a neutral would agree that Atletico should have won at least one of those finals on the overall balance of play. If Madrid don't win both those finals then do they become that great and does Cristiano become that great? I have gone on record to say that Madrid's 2016 victory was the luckiest UCL victory I have ever known, surpassing even Chelsea's in 2012. The 2017 final win can be directly attributed to the confidence generated from those two wins in addition to a lot more luck going Madrid's way and it was the first time that Cristiano produced a man of the match display in a UCL final. Now consider the teams that knocked us out in 2016 and 2017 - Atletico Madrid and Juventus. Atletico in 2016 is the most deserving team not to win the UCL. Juventus in 2017 were the best team in the UCL until they self imploded at half time in the final. My point here is that in both those seasons we lost to teams that could and/or should have won the tournaments.

Marketing potential of Cristiano is more? Let it be. They are different people. I am completely fine with Messi not behaving like Cristiano on and off the pitch.

This perception of one man team has irritated me a lot. In fact some people even try to keep saying that Pep's team did that well because of Messi. It's ridiculous to say the least. Messi was just one major factor in what was one of the best teams ever. As for now I can agree with that perception more because if the creative burden of a team is on one player you could say he runs the team.

Lastly are you really saying that Cristiano is aware that Messi is paid double of him and is not complaining???

I agree partly. But I still think he twisted our arms a little. With Neymar leaving, the board was in a fix. They couldnt let Messi walk on a free. Messi took advantage. Would other players not have done the same? Probably yes. But I cant help but feel that a Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol or a Pique wouldnt have.
Had a accepted a reasonable fee, we could have a more reasonable wage structure and the money saved could go towards transfers.

Barca are definitely not spending like they have any worries when it comes to transfers. Dembele and Coutinho were not cheap. Not sure if a different Messi contract would have made any difference.

alexjanosik wrote:

messixaviesta wrote:

alexjanosik wrote:


I speak entirely from the perspective of value for money.
We have 2 players. Now a player's worth can be measured in terms of the impact on trophies and in terms of the money they generate as the club's icon.

In terms of impact on trophies, CR has outperformed Messi over the past couple of years. We can argue that Messi is the better player. But thats not the point. CR has had a bigger impact in winning trophies(3 CL out of 4).
More importantly, the world at large believes it, as evidenced by him winning 4 of the last 5 B'Dor.
CR is just as big a money spinner for Madrid as Messi is for us. In fact, I believe CR has more marketing potential for Madrid.

So when out of the 2 parameters, CR at the very least equals Messi, how do we justify paying Messi twice what CR earns.

I also dont think Messi has been carrying us. Contrary to perception, we still have a very good team. Just play a more pragmatic way under Valverde. We have the best defense in Europe. A midfield which shields the defense well. It is not Xaviesta level but with Busquets and Rakitic in it, still one of the best in the business. Messi has the creative burden but I dont agree we are a one man team.

I think his CL performances do deserve scrutiny especially when he eats up 1/6th of our revenue. That is stupendous and for that kind of money, I expect performances in CL knockouts. Else, he needs to accept a salary that is in line with what his rival is paid.

Interesting reply. Agree to some extent.

When you say Cristiano has done more in UCL knockouts recently let's study that point more carefully. Today everyone is going gaga over Madrid. See how the 2014 and 2016 finals were won. Did Cristiano win any of them? No both were won due to a few factors but none bigger than luck. Even a neutral would agree that Atletico should have won at least one of those finals on the overall balance of play. If Madrid don't win both those finals then do they become that great and does Cristiano become that great? I have gone on record to say that Madrid's 2016 victory was the luckiest UCL victory I have ever known, surpassing even Chelsea's in 2012. The 2017 final win can be directly attributed to the confidence generated from those two wins in addition to a lot more luck going Madrid's way and it was the first time that Cristiano produced a man of the match display in a UCL final. Now consider the teams that knocked us out in 2016 and 2017 - Atletico Madrid and Juventus. Atletico in 2016 is the most deserving team not to win the UCL. Juventus in 2017 were the best team in the UCL until they self imploded at half time in the final. My point here is that in both those seasons we lost to teams that could and/or should have won the tournaments.

Marketing potential of Cristiano is more? Let it be. They are different people. I am completely fine with Messi not behaving like Cristiano on and off the pitch.

This perception of one man team has irritated me a lot. In fact some people even try to keep saying that Pep's team did that well because of Messi. It's ridiculous to say the least. Messi was just one major factor in what was one of the best teams ever. As for now I can agree with that perception more because if the creative burden of a team is on one player you could say he runs the team.

Lastly are you really saying that Cristiano is aware that Messi is paid double of him and is not complaining???  

I agree partly. But I still think he twisted our arms a little. With Neymar leaving, the board was in a fix. They couldnt let Messi walk on a free. Messi took advantage. Would other players not have done the same? Probably yes. But I cant help but feel that a Xavi, Iniesta, Puyol or a Pique wouldnt have.
Had a accepted a reasonable fee, we could have a more reasonable wage structure and the money saved could go towards transfers.

Not for nothing do I call Iniesta my alter ego on the football pitch and Xavi pretty much a God. In all these years that I have followed these two midfield maestros I can hardly recall a single moment when they asked for something for themselves to the detriment of a team or any group they were part of. However I must also acknowledge that the comparison with Messi is an apples to oranges comparison. If Xavi and Iniesta were this generation's greatest football icon like Messi only then could I have compared their selfless attitude with Messi's. The truth is that when you are as brilliant and revered as Messi you are likely to be at least a little full of yourself. Messi is nowhere close to the extreme example of that, one Diego Maradona. So I will not grudge him such things. Besides I agree with alfred that the worst kind of wastage of money has been the overpaying we have done for so many of our transfers.

Messi flopped again, reinforcing my point that he doesnt deserve the 100 mil contract. Nowhere close.
He is an old school 10, who just walks and waits for the ball between the lines. Might have worked in Maradona's time. But it is so easy for good teams to cut him off. Might work once in 100 tries like it did against Chelsea.

But unless he actually starts moving, he and by extension we will continue flopping in the CL. I thought at the time and the season has vindicated my belief. It was a Herculean mistake to keep Messi and let Neymar go. Neymar is the future and we should have built around him. We would go much further with Neymar than with Messi.

Barcelona are already holding talks with Sevilla defender Lenglet (22) to sign the player #fcblive [sport]

could be Umtiti replacement

Barcelona are the new Arsenal

agree, except Arsenal is at least trying to play attractive football

this Umtiti saga is all BS though IMO ----> Barcelona are keen to hold on to Umtiti. Discussions between the club and player’s representatives are advancing and both parties are optimistic to arrive at an agreement. However, Barça are in no rush on his renewal [md]

Lenglet is close to signing with Barça. Barça's officials met with the defender and his agent and presented their offer. The meeting ended with Lenglet showing his willingness to sign for Barça. [sport]

Arthur, Lenglet and Griezmann would be a good start, but we still need a WC CM a la Pjanic.


Barca aim to set Umtiti's release clause at 250M euros. [md]

How many CBs do Barcelona need ffs?

if Umtiti agrees to stay, Lenglet will not come. Lenglet is willing to join at any time, but Umtiti will most likely renew

that's the latest update

Barcelona chasing young Santos player Rodrygo deemed ‘new Neymar’ [sport]

Looks better than Dembélé but still not anywhere near good enough.

Barça will soon speak with Atlético Madrid so the clubs can officially announce that Griezmann will become a Barça player next season. [md]

There was a meeting with Griezmann's sister. He will sign for 5 years and his release clause of €100m will activated (€20m will be for Real Sociedad). [@albert_roge]


Dembele expected to leave on loan to a La Liga team to gain experience if Griezmann comes.

Myesyats wrote:
Dembele expected to leave on loan to a La Liga team to gain experience if Griezmann comes.

I read a comment that considering how unprofessional and disgraceful Dembele's behavior at Dortmund was prior to his transfer to us, this is just the kind of treatment he deserves.

I also just read that Dembele's relationship with Valverde suffered because they think his second injury was all his fault and the result of not following instructions in the warm up or whatever.

What's the source for that? We shouldn't let him go, Suarez has been declining for 2 years and no one can guarantee his form next season. We don't have that much depth in attack.

sport

also, we can let him leave on loan if Griezmann comes

No way we sell a player we bought for 100M after 1 season. Even our club isnt that dumb. Dembele is young and was bought to be here for the long haul, or at the minimum 3 sesasons (or if someone pays us what we paid for him)

http://www.espn.com/soccer/soccer-transfers/story/3488309/barcelonas-ousmane-dembele-will-get-time-he-needs-josep-maria-bartomeu

messixaviesta wrote:

Myesyats wrote:
Dembele expected to leave on loan to a La Liga team to gain experience if Griezmann comes.

I read a comment that considering how unprofessional and disgraceful Dembele's behavior at Dortmund was prior to his transfer to us, this is just the kind of treatment he deserves.

That's a bit rich an attitude to have considering your club actively instigated the player's behaviour to force a transfer after Neymar left.

Sell Dumbélz to Bayern for €60m. Better than loaning him out in 2 years to Eibar for with option to buy €15m

Dembele was bought for a lot of money and he's a young player. Even if he has attitude problems, Barca knew that going in and, again, he's a young player. He's had injuries this season as well. Absolutely needs at least another year, probably two before Barca make any decision on keeping or selling him. Shouldn't be loaned either.

Luckily Barca will not be so stupid to even think of letting him go anywhere right now, loan or sell.

Atlético have as good as given up on trying to convince Griezmann to stay; he will join Barcelona in the summer. [carrusel]

there was a meeting between the player and club president this afternoon

yess i love Griezmann