Guardiola has failed Bayern Munich

CBarca wrote:Wait what?

You can talk about the fact that Atleti have gone through against Barca and that's fair play, but Bayern weren't "raped" on the counter. Atleti scored through a Saul wonder goal that wasn't a counter, and then a "counter" of sorts through Griezmann where Boateng went full retard and Alaba failed at playing an offside trap. It wasn't even a good counterattacking move by any means, it was dumb defending for both goals and Atleti were clinical. Hats off to Atletico for that, but let's not pretend like they put on a counter attacking masterclass.

Hell even the Barca game, Barca scored the 1st through a Bernat mistake losing possession. Then Barca scored with a Messi wonder goal that wasn't a counterattack. The third was a counter of sorts after Bayern was up 2-0 and pressing hard for the equalizer, fair play, but there wasn't much else Guardiola was going to do. Down 2-0 away from home you attempt to put the ball in the back of the net and get an away goal. This was, of course, also an incredibly depleted Bayern. Early on in the game when Pep was man marking you might have somewhat a point as Barca created at least one good chance, but Pep quickly switched systems.

In none of those games did Bayern get "raped" on the counter (Bayern won the second leg of the Barca tie if I need to remind). I agree he did in the Madrid tie but Pep admitted as much himself

Once again, people either haven't watched the games or haven't bothered to take a look at them and are spouting nonsense anti-Pep stereotypical BS like saying his team got raped on the counter.

alexjanosik wrote:So nobody can provide a reasoned argument on why Simeone is some multidimensional coach whose tactics arent being used to varying levels of success by countless other managers.
Thought so as well. I rest my case.
And please spare me the 'Why dont you manage a top club nonsense?'
Understanding football tactics is not all complicated. Dont make it out to be. Al it takes are good observational skills and a good footballing brain. Managing a club successfully is an entirely different ball game.

Kebab wrote:Simeone's strength is his leadership and agressiveness. Players respect him and afraid of him. He rapes his players as and makes them run. It would not work in a top club with superstar players.
He would be a top coach like Pep and Lucho.Nothing more

Difference is that Pep and Lucho would be average in weaker teams.Simeone isnt

El Messico wrote:

btw Griezmann goal is a textbook Pep team getting f'd over in a counter. How can you even let your defence be that exposed?

RealGunner wrote:wow, didn't know GL was that popular.

CBarca wrote:Pep doesn't give a shit, he'll go down as one of the greatest managers of all time in the short few years he's been managing

Not even arguable either

Garci - from Bayernzone wrote:Ah, Pep. I'm not the first nor will I be the last to post in this thread today, but I feel the time is ripe for this. An appraisal/eulogy if you will. I just have to get this off my chest. here are a number of concepts I want to touch upon, and linking it all coherently will take my best efforts as a writer. But I'll try.

Let's go way back to when the treble was fresh. The board wanted to push Bayern one step further, to "form a dynasty", a footballing legacy to establish european dominance for years to come. The term is hazy by definition - what is really dominance? Can it be asserted that making 3 semifinals in a row and losing them all, each by a narrower margin than the last, is establishing dominance? Is European Arsenal what we strived for? I think not. On this account, I feel we have messed with bits that needn't have been messed with.

Or did we really mess with it at all? Most of the players that started the 2013 final played today. On that record, I believe this past year has been our best in the signings department lately, with Vidal having a deadlock on best player this season for me, and having found more than adequate long term replacements for Robbery in CoCo. We also brought in Lewy last season, which is an amazing addition to our team, and we have young fresh blood in Thiago and Kimmich at midfield being monsters at times. It's always a matter of debate, attributing signings - they can be a "coach signing" or a "board signing" depending on the side the speaker takes and what point he/she's trying to prove.

But that's the thing I hate the most about Pep's time here - how divided the fanbase has become. He was a polarizing signing since day 1, carrying over a ton of bias from his Barcelona days, and it hasn't changed. Never have I felt our fanbase be this divided, and even if he didn't directly instigate it, it's a side effect of his tenure that I can't avoid noticing. Some of us, myself included, were pretty happy at his signing, and were sure that he would deliver in silverware and playstyle greatly.

Silverware did come, true, but it's hard assessing how much of it wasn't because of the outright quality of the team. What's undeniable is that more silverware lines our shelves than before, and there may be more to come. If Ancelotti's reputation as a cup manager comes through, and Dortmund continue their rising form, we may well resent not winning the BuLi next year. Don't let this surprise you. I don't feel like our playstyle under Pep would ensure silverware next year for what it's worth, though.

And here is wherein the crux of the issue lies for me. We have sparks of brilliance. We don't look like a dominant team at all times, after giving Pep 3 years to establish his system. It looks no clear to me than it did 3 years ago. At times, it feels like the Bayern of old, direct and vertical in possession with fluid, attacking football. At others, it feels like a rubber ball, bouncing around for no end, padding possession statistics but with little end products. It's like having Gomez as a striker again.

It's always that last bit missing. That last step forward. We made 3 finals in 4 years before Pep, which was obvously not going to be a recurring pattern, but we missed out on the finals by progressively less goals each time. I hated Pep's approach of lying like a dead dog on the first leg to make up for it in the second, as he did so often. Porto, Benfica, Barcelona, Atletico, Juventus, the list goes on. We looked horribly surprised and outclassed against Atletico the first leg, as though our players hadn't been prepared, and that's solely the coach's fault. Today, we looked brilliant, and put up the usual "second leg struggle", but we were still eliminated.

In the end, it's the sparks of brilliance that kill me. Those moments where we look like the best team in the world, and are few and far between. After 3 seasons, the "working on it" argument is moot. With Pep, I feel as though he came to us and promised us this delicious steak dinner. We went with him to the supermarket, and he bought steak. At home, he was cooking it, the smell of grilling beef filling the air, making us look forward to this tastiest of meals. The walls were lined with Pep's pictures at award ceremonies for Best Steak in Europe.

And then, when he finally comes to the table, it's Burger King.

I honestly can't wait until Ancelotti takes over. I don't deem Pep's tenure as a complete failure. But it sure failed to live up to the hype, or to deliver in the terms it was spoken of. European dynasty, my ass. Let another chef step up to the grill.

CBarca wrote:Pep doesn't give a shit, he'll go down as one of the greatest managers of all time in the short few years he's been managing

Not even arguable either

CBarca wrote:Pep doesn't give a shit, he'll go down as one of the greatest managers of all time in the short few years he's been managing

Not even arguable either

chad4401 wrote:

CBarca wrote:Pep doesn't give a shit, he'll go down as one of the greatest managers of all time in the short few years he's been managing

Not even arguable either

see these are the posts that make pep a fraud, overlooking his shortcomings just to award that greatest manager of all time tag anyway, exaggerating doesn't make you knowledgeable.

all these over the top post of being a super genius, but outside of prime barca, his tactics against elite gets exposed quite easily, as i said before even a team like arsenal can show these weaknesses, a lot of times bayern are winning solely on talent alone, but because pep is the one coaching them its always about him.

he failed nothing wrong in saying that, pretty sure bayern wanted another CL and he couldn't deliver that the facts.

Art Morte wrote:"Go ahead and write that I have failed."
Pep's words himself. I think this thread is settled.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36230554

VivaStPauli wrote:

CBarca wrote:Pep doesn't give a shit, he'll go down as one of the greatest managers of all time in the short few years he's been managing

Not even arguable either

Not for Bayern though.

Football connoisseurs will argue that he refined the technique, the positioning, gave the players an excellent footballing education - and they might be right.

But in terms of being a club legend? You need to overcome at least some odds for that. Pep didn't. Lost the DFB cup once, not one UCL, and with that squad (I know, the UCL is always special, and not winning it doesn't make him a failure), lost the Supercup, even though it's a Mickey Mouse cup, people take notice when you lose to your rivals.

Will in the end (in 5 to 10 years) probably rank along the likes of Louis van Gaal in Bayerns memory. As someone who refined their game, brought up some notable players (Müller for LvG, Kimmich for Pep, maybe, who knows how we'll see this one in retrospect), evolved their pressing game a bit, but ultimately, they'll talk more about the treble-winning Heynckes, or the legendary speeches of Trappatoni, than they will about the ultimately forgettable Pep.

He isn't for Bayern what he was for Barca.
Doesn't even mean he did a bad job, it's just that it's a club with a very storied history. You need more to be a Bayern legend. Those f*ckers are choosy.